online music piracy...

[MojoRedFoot]

i used to like downloading metallca songs from limewire...jus sayin

Did you get a virus?

[MojoRedFoot]

For the record, I like Dave Grohl. I did not read all the pages of this thread but did anyone else watch that documentary on the Foo Fighters that was on recently? Really cool.

[Gibson Artist]

Did you get a virus?

 

My best friend donna got one downloading a Clint Black song, who'd have thought country could be dangerous?

[stein]

So, are we talking about repossesing an innocent fans house that downloaded from naoster or repossesing a house by the guy who created napster? Just to put that out there is misleading the facts.

 

I remember the napster thing all too well. He was anything but a good guy. Not just a crook, but a guy that had no conciense and no problem convincing masses against poeple and bands. What kind of guy does that?

 

And as for Metallica, the stand they took and the efforts they made went agianst everything that would make them popular in thier genre of music and did much to hurt thier career, but they did what they BELIEVED in. That is the real deal right there.

[S t e v e]

Did you get a virus?

 

never ever got a virus (good antivirus works) just got free music

[MojoRedFoot]

[Gibson Artist]

So, are we talking about repossesing an innocent fans house that downloaded from naoster or repossesing a house by the guy who created napster? Just to put that out there is misleading the facts.

 

I remember the napster thing all too well. He was anything but a good guy. Not just a crook, but a guy that had no conciense and no problem convincing masses against poeple and bands. What kind of guy does that?

 

And as for Metallica, the stand they took and the efforts they made went agianst everything that would make them popular in thier genre of music and did much to hurt thier career, but they did what they BELIEVED in. That is the real deal right there.

 

So you are 100% certain that file sharing's sole intention was to steal copyrighted material? I mean if not how can you blame the creator of the program for what other people share? I do not recall all of the finer details of Napster tho so you probably are much more knowledeable in this area than i.

 

For the record, i buy all of my songs on ipod even though i could just as easily steal them but to sue the people who put you where you are seems a tad on the harsh side imo.

[ne14t?]

So, are we talking about repossesing an innocent fans house that downloaded from naoster or repossesing a house by the guy who created napster? Just to put that out there is misleading the facts.

 

I remember the napster thing all too well. He was anything but a good guy. Not just a crook, but a guy that had no conciense and no problem convincing masses against poeple and bands. What kind of guy does that?

 

And as for Metallica, the stand they took and the efforts they made went agianst everything that would make them popular in thier genre of music and did much to hurt thier career, but they did what they BELIEVED in. That is the real deal right there.

 

Thank you, someone else understands! I am not against "sharing" music whatevs do what you want in fact I will say Torrents will be your musical friend. But dragging a band under the wheels of the bus because they stood up for there artistic right is just silly.

[ShredAstaire]

So you are 100% certain that file sharing's sole intention was to steal copyrighted material?

 

Well, that was the program's (Napster) intended purpose.

[Gibson Artist]

Well, that was the program's (Napster) intended purpose.

 

To share files.

 

btw, Metallica is actually one of Dave Grohl's favorite bands of all time.

[S t e v e]

 

it's my thread and i concent to the hijack :)

[MojoRedFoot]

I still love this song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrjGP8WZzuY

[S t e v e]

To share files.

 

btw, Metallica is actually one of Dave Grohl's favorite bands of all time.

 

what has dave grohl got to do with this thread?

[stein]

So you are 100% certain that file sharing's sole intention was to steal copyrighted material? I mean if not how can you blame the creator of the program for what other people share? I do not recall all of the finer details of Napster tho so you probably are much more knowledeable in this area than i.

 

For the record, i buy all of my songs on ipod even though i could just as easily steal them but to sue the people who put you where you are seems a tad on the harsh side imo.

I know you mean well, and you are not trying to judge, but this what you percieve is exactly the kind of thing I was refering to. Napster was 100% for the purpose of facilitating stealing copywrited materiel. And by stealing, that is bypassing and negating the possibilty of the music making any profit for those who made it by the use of napster. And money was made, by napster.

 

And to be certain, no one who was sued had any part in putting metallica where they were at the time. That was, and is, a LIE that was told by the creaters at the time.

 

I'm a little worked up and problably not being clear. The point is that these napster poeple had no problem making as much money as they could with thier idea and success or thier "file sharing". and then, convincing poeple that the poeple who should have got paid didn't need or deserve the money.

[Gibson Artist]

I know you mean well, and you are not trying to judge, but this what you percieve is exactly the kind of thing I was refering to. Napster was 100% for the purpose of facilitating stealing copywrited materiel. And by stealing, that is bypassing and negating the possibilty of the music making any profit for those who made it by the use of napster. And money was made, by napster.

 

And to be certain, no one who was sued had any part in putting metallica where they were at the time. That was, and is, a LIE that was told by the creaters at the time.

 

I'm a little worked up and problably not being clear. The point is that these napster poeple had no problem making as much money as they could with thier idea and success or thier "file sharing". and then, convincing poeple that the poeple who should have got paid didn't need or deserve the money.

 

I dont think they were trying to convince people that the bands didnt deserve to be paid but let's face it are you going to feel sorry for someone living such a decadent lifestyle that they are on mtv cribs showing their 20 cars and gold plated ferrari?

 

Napster did pay out a massive settlement for all that illegal downloading and 55,000 users were also banned from the program and threatened with a lawsuit for a Federal offense. Napster was the Robin hood of music, an illegal form of Socialism if you will. I dont condone stealing but the CD industry lied to consumers for years so i dont feel very sorry for them.

 

CD's were supposed to be much cheaper to make the vinyl records yet they were more expensive and the price never came down like it was supposed to and instead of the buying public enjoying the benefits of newer and cheaper technology the industry instead sucked up giant profits. Some fans kept their reciepts and sued the industry and won.

[stein]

I dont think they were trying to convince people that the bands didnt deserve to be paid but let's face it are you going to feel sorry for someone living such a decadent lifestyle that they are on mtv cribs showing their 20 cars and gold plated ferrari?

 

Napster did pay out a massive settlement for all that illegal downloading and 55,000 users were also banned from the program and threatened with a lawsuit for a Federal offense. Napster was the Robin hood of music, an illegal form of Socialism if you will. I dont condone stealing but the CD industry lied to consumers for years so i dont feel very sorry for them.

 

CD's were supposed to be much cheaper to make the vinyl records yet they were more expensive and the price never came down like it was supposed to and instead of the buying public enjoying the benefits of newer and cheaper technology the industry instead sucked up giant profits. Some fans kept their reciepts and sued the industry and won.

Good points. The CD issue issue was a whole different thing involving different entities. I'm with you on that one. The whole CD campiegn and how they sounded better (they don't) and how they would last forever (they don't) and how EVERYONE should switch over was a HUGE marketing campiegn headed by Sony because they had the rights and thus could gain a monopoly. They eventually did.

 

On the other subject, yea, I agree that for those few that "make it" they are the lucky ones and should feel fortunate. But there is a lot more to the money aspect of a record sale with the band only getting a very small portion of it. There is a LOT more poeple involved in the business as a whole that make a living and put work into the industry that get paid from record sales. And for a given record of a band, you have to consider the rest of the label and the others the label supports that don't make so much.

[Gibson Artist]

Good points. The CD issue issue was a whole different thing involving different entities. I'm with you on that one. The whole CD campiegn and how they sounded better (they don't) and how they would last forever (they don't) and how EVERYONE should switch over was a HUGE marketing campiegn headed by Sony because they had the rights and thus could gain a monopoly. They eventually did.

 

On the other subject, yea, I agree that for those few that "make it" they are the lucky ones and should feel fortunate. But there is a lot more to the money aspect of a record sale with the band only getting a very small portion of it. There is a LOT more poeple involved in the business as a whole that make a living and put work into the industry that get paid from record sales. And for a given record of a band, you have to consider the rest of the label and the others the label supports that don't make so much.

 

Yes, that's true as the majority of bands list their profits from Touring and not record sales and i am not without empathy for the artists coming up as they are the ones truly hurt by file sharing. But a wealthy band like metallica? No, i do not think the 55k people who stole their songs put that big a dent in their sales, their sub-standard records of the past 10 years did that all by themselves.

 

Im not sure file sharing can totally take the blame for killing the cd industry but it certainly was wrong and played a major role. What scares me now is this new invention called Kindle, it could be the death of the public library in a few years.

[Jeff-7]

I pay for all music, if I enjoy a band's music I want them to continue making records. The napster/metallica youtube vid was intended to instill some humor in this thread not start a war. As an afterthought though I would be more inclined to feel pity on record labels if they didn't monetarily rape the majority of the artists they sign and their paying fans.

[stein]

Yes, that's true as the majority of bands list their profits from Touring and not record sales and i am not without empathy for the artists coming up as they are the ones truly hurt by file sharing. But a wealthy band like metallica? No, i do not think the 55k people who stole their songs put that big a dent in their sales, their sub-standard records of the past 10 years did that all by themselves.

 

Im not sure file sharing can totally take the blame for killing the cd industry but it certainly was wrong and played a major role. What scares me now is this new invention called Kindle, it could be the death of the public library in a few years.

To further hijack, you right about that. The CD industry hurt the CD industry. There was a time when sound quality mattered, and for the most part, we bought records because the sound of tapes copied by our friends didn't feed the need. Fast forward to the CD and what that did to sound quality, to MP3, and to now, where it doesn't really matter where we get our music from because the reproductions all sound like crap anyway.

 

When it all sounds like that and we don't remember what it sounded like, why the hell would anyone feel the urge to go buy something at a record store?

[ShredAstaire]

To share files.

 

Don't be so naive...or pretending to be anyway. You know what Napster was intended for...

[Gibson Artist]

To further hijack, you right about that. The CD industry hurt the CD industry. There was a time when sound quality mattered, and for the most part, we bought records because the sound of tapes copied by our friends didn't feed the need. Fast forward to the CD and what that did to sound quality, to MP3, and to now, where it doesn't really matter where we get our music from because the reproductions all sound like crap anyway.

 

When it all sounds like that and we don't remember what it sounded like, why the hell would anyone feel the urge to go buy something at a record store?

 

Agreed. I remember the music industry saying cassette tapes would end the music industy and of course it did not. Was there alot of theft? Of course! The only thing file sharing did was make theft more easier but how many among us can honestly say weve never copied a tape off of a friend back in the 80s?

 

CD's were kind of depressing and i keep telling my daughter how cool it was when you bought the old double albums. I showed her a couple of live 70s ones to illustrate the big full color photos and lyric sheets and how much more fun music was when i was little. In this day and age kids just throw the cd case in the trash and put the cd in a big binder with 100 others.

[Gibson Artist]

Don't be so naive...or pretending to be anyway. You know what Napster was intended for...

 

Well, if everything i read on the internet is true it was meant to steal but i dont always believe everything i read.

 

btw, i dig your nick very cool.

[Andy R]

Yes, that's true as the majority of bands list their profits from Touring and not record sales and i am not without empathy for the artists coming up as they are the ones truly hurt by file sharing. But a wealthy band like metallica? No, i do not think the 55k people who stole their songs put that big a dent in their sales, their sub-standard records of the past 10 years did that all by themselves.

 

Im not sure file sharing can totally take the blame for killing the cd industry but it certainly was wrong and played a major role. What scares me now is this new invention called Kindle, it could be the death of the public library in a few years.

 

 

Quoted you but not directed at you in particular.

 

IMHO - The only bands that really suffer or suffered from file sharing/piracy whatever you want to call it... were the bands that managed to negotiate a fair percentage of their record sales. As stated above most bands don't get shite from actual record sales but make most money on merchandise and concerts and royalties if they negotiated that well. So for the bands that depend more on concerts and merchandise then the more people that hear and like you the better chance you have for concert and merch sales...

 

It also took a lot of the power away from the record companies as they are realizing a time now where it is becoming more and more possible for bands to utilize technology and essentially make record companies obsolete and unnecessary.

 

As far as Napster is concerned they pioneered peer to peer file sharing which is starting to make its way into other legitimate areas such as streaming video to reduce bandwidth utilization in large corporations. I can't comment on their motives.

 

Metallica.... Hmmm wonder if they paid for all those NWOBHM tunes they were listening to back in the day??? I dunno.... They were one of my favorite bands back in the day... Now they just seem like they became the people they used to rail against....

[stein]

Andy, good commentary, goes to the heart of the matter (of this hijacked thread) and I also realize this comes from some experience and knowledge of poeple's experience.

 

The record industry is notoriuous for having theives and snakes. Bad and misleading contracts, stealing profits. Problably THE example of the worst society has to offer in the business world. Even going so far as to sign a number of bands just to KEEP them from recording and making them compete, or just simply wanting to keep the rights should anything happen. And no doubt plenty of times where the record company would not think twice about misleading or stealing from an artist. And for all the honest ones there are, chances are the dishonest ones are gonna get to someone first, because that is how they do it.

 

Personally, I am at odds to the way the whole thing is set up to begin with. It does not reward hard work and effort, or even talent. Just even considering songwriters vs performers. Get a song on the radio and you could be set for life for an hours worth of work, but the performer doesn't eat if he doesn't work. And who is the responsible talent for the success?

 

The thing that decides the napster issue for me, is that while an argument CAN be made agaisnt the record industry, Napster and what they did takes it to the next step. What napster attempted to do represents the purest form of what is wrong with the industry they made money from. And to me. the worst of society. That is by making money from something of which you did not contribute. And worse, preventing the ability for those who could, all the while telling us they don't deserve of need it.

 

And, as you have likely seem more than I, what about all the other poeple employed in the making of the music industry. Look at all the poeple it takes to make a record. Surely, they deserve a piece of the pie. Records don't sound great just because of the musicians, and when the musicians slack off by not having songs done or can't do the performance, how many hours does the rest of the crew spend making it good?

 

I am going to sum this up with a judgement I may have no place in having. I think that between you and the Napster guys, you have contributed more to the music industry than they have, but they have made a lot more money there than you. And it is guys like them who make money the way they do that make it so guys like you make your money in the computer industry rather than the music industry. And You have much more to contribute than they do.

[Rocky4]

All the "I've never illegally downloaded music" comments are interesting. I guess it's like asking couples how much they have sex. You tell people what makes you sound better. An estimated 50 to 70% of all internet use is used for piracy.