rocketman Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Here it is. It's a real dissertation in "partial satisfaction of the requirements for the degree Doctor of Philosophy in Musicology" at the University of California. I think it's a great piece of work, but the other side of me who wrote a highly mathematical Ph.D. dissertation is thinking "this is a joke, right?" Well it seemed to have earned him his degree nonetheless. I don't mean to knock down other degrees (I have many friends who have Ph.D.'s in music), but I think there needs to be a certain standard maintained on what constitutes a real dissertation. Great read though if you're a Rush fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I'm not a big enough fan of Rush to read a 300 page dissertation on them, but if Cal felt it was good enough and he was able to defend it to the examination committee during the oral exam good for him. I'm not going to knock it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Here it is. It's a real dissertation in "partial satisfaction of the requirements for the degree Doctor of Philosophy in Musicology" at the University of California. I think it's a great piece of work, but the other side of me who wrote a highly mathematical Ph.D. dissertation is thinking "this is a joke, right?" Well it seemed to have earned him his degree nonetheless. I don't mean to knock down other degrees (I have many friends who have Ph.D.'s in music), but I think there needs to be a certain standard maintained on what constitutes a real dissertation. Great read though if you're a Rush fan. Hi Rocketman Sorry if I am being slow, but I think may be misunderstanding something in your post... Is it the idea of a dissertation on a popular music band you are grappling with, or is it the the standard of the work that he has written that you feel doesn't live up to being the standard of a PhD? I ask because there are many dissertations in musicology that are done on similar things i.e subjects about bands, singers, pop culture etc etc Cheers Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 I try to keep an open mind about things. But I think that doing a dissertation on a one existing band is stretching it though. To me this would be more like an M.S. thesis. Now had the topic been on how progressive rock affected the music culture of the day, then it would have more "meat" in it to justify a dissertation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 You cant explain a bands music in 300 pages. Not even 300,000 pages, just gotta listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 my uncle will probably get that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I'd like to see a dissertation on how Justin Bieber and Brittney Spears are considered to have any talent at all............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman5293 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I'd like to see a dissertation on how Justin Bieber and Brittney Spears are considered to have any talent at all............ This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I try to keep an open mind about things. But I think that doing a dissertation on a one existing band is stretching it though. To me this would be more like an M.S. thesis. Now had the topic been on how progressive rock affected the music culture of the day, then it would have more "meat" in it to justify a dissertation. Well as a musician (certainly in Europe), there are two routes in higher education, with three usually levels of qualification. If you are a performer/composer/conductor you can go to a conservatoire (or study with a teacher privately) and usually do a practical based B Mus, M Mus (and then after that a Fellowship or another type of advanced practical certificate) or a diploma, Licentiate and Fellowship. If you are an academic musician, you can either 'chop and change' (i.e do some of the aforementioned and then 'jump ship' to a more practical equivalent) or follow the traditional BA, MA/Msc and PhD (sometimes DMus) route. My back ground is mainly in the practical side of music making, so I can only offer what I have seen of PhD music thesis' - but I have though read quite a few recently as I was already to go back to uni next year to start a music PhD (but for various reasons including cash and concerts have put it on the backburner) but anyway, the PhD would require me to write an approximately 40000 word dissertation and a series of recordings of concerts that were directly linked to the topic with programme notes etc. If I was doing composition, it would be similar and the only exception would be if I was doing purely musicology, in which case it would be c.100000 words on my chosen subject... (This is only my view...) So in regard to that, maybe this is where someone such as yourself, who submitted one hardcore dissertation (that was more likely 100000 words), would see a PhD gained with less than half the words you have written 'watered down' or soft. I can empathise with that, although I would also argue that in performance/composition the standard is so high and the performances have to be directly linked in such a way to your research, it is just as hard as just writing another 50000 words! I so often quote the Elvis Costello line "talking about music is like dancing about architecture", because I think a lot of these articles, dissertations etc are so often 'puffed up' and self indulgent in their intention and not sincere! i.e they say a lot in word content, but in substance not a lot LOL. However, I have read though more of this chaps writing and personally I got something out of it and from I have seen it justified a PhD dissertation. I think the big difference in writing about a popular music band/artist opposed to a classical or jazz artist is the former relies on much more sociological research and the context must be constantly re affirmed. With the latter, there is so much more in the music to write about i.e the emotional content and intellectual complexity of the music, that it means the work appears/is (??) more academic. cheers Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 My shampoo is PhC balanced, I have 98.6 degrees, so, just sayin'....... ( I did take college courses when I was 8 - 11 years old. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 Actually my dissertation had a lot less words than this one, but a lot more equations (he he he). The Ph.D. music dissertations I've seen differ vastly from this one. I'll definitely plead ignorance on this one because I haven't read that many of them. Matt, you certainly seem to know more about the subject, so I'll take what you say as true. I've read through it more and I do think it's a great piece of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Actually my dissertation had a lot less words than this one, but a lot more equations (he he he). The Ph.D. music dissertations I've seen differ vastly from this one. I'll definitely plead ignorance on this one because I haven't read that many of them. Matt, you certainly seem to know more about the subject, so I'll take what you say as true. I've read through it more and I do think it's a great piece of work. Bloody hell! You are our very own resident doctor! And you did it in something that just hurts my brain even thinking about! Lol Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freak show Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I try to keep an open mind about things. But I think that doing a dissertation on a one existing band is stretching it though. To me this would be more like an M.S. thesis. Now had the topic been on how progressive rock affected the music culture of the day, then it would have more "meat" in it to justify a dissertation. If I understand you correctly, the fact that Rush is still active is what makes you doubt that their music could be a suitable subject for a dissertation. I'm not sure how it is in Musicology, but I do know that it's not uncommon for dissertations, books and scholarly articles to be written about living authors. In some cases this is even preferred, since it is often asked if the world really needs yet another study of Shakespeare, Melville, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Didn't read it but what are the other 299 pages about? I'm kidding! Relax all you Rushmites out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I've had a chance to scan most of the dissertation, which is about is much as I intend to do with it, not being a tremendous Rush fan. An interesting paper; the author does an excellent job of discussing the relevant factors that determine the band's value- social/cultural, historical, musical, literary, aesthetic, etc. As good a paper as this is, I'd only give it a 5- not a very good beat, and can't dance to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lagerfanny Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Only just seen this, and now saved it to read on my day off tomorrow, Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky4 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 How about a 500 page dissertation on Jimmy Page, the greatest rock guitarist of all time!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 If I understand you correctly, the fact that Rush is still active is what makes you doubt that their music could be a suitable subject for a dissertation. I'm not sure how it is in Musicology, but I do know that it's not uncommon for dissertations, books and scholarly articles to be written about living authors. In some cases this is even preferred, since it is often asked if the world really needs yet another study of Shakespeare, Melville, etc. Well that's part of it. I have graduated about 10 Ph.D.'s in my career as a professor, so I know a little about advising Ph.D. students. Like I said I've read a few music dissertations and they weren't this "mainstream." But I could, and quite possibly, be way off in my original thinking, especially since I'm not a music major. But I started thinking about this some more. I'm a HUGE Rush fan and I've been one since I was a kid. I think this is a pretty nice piece of work, but I also think to myself "how much effort would it take me to write a dissertation about Rush?" I can tell you about the theory behind every song. For example, the solo in Tom Sawyer is written in Mixolydian mode, YYZ is in Spanish Phrygian, Freewill is in Lydian, etc. I've read nearly every article I could find on them and I've listened to about a zillion interviews. Matt made this point which made me think about it more. If this student already knew most of this stuff before writing it, then I don't think it's worthy of a Ph.D. dissertation. Now, if on the other hand, his adviser said "do you know much about Rush?" and the student said "no," then that's something completely different. Learning something new is the point of the dissertation. It should be a struggle and a huge time sink (our dissertations are worth 24 credits, which is the equivalent of 8 courses). As I said I'll defer to Matt's judgment on this. If he thinks it's worthy of a dissertation then that's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 300 pages seems like a RUSH job to me..........I'll bet he supports himself while in college by MOVING PICTURES..... The writer showed GRACE UNDER PRESSURE while writing it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 Damain, I'll give you a SHOW OF HANDS for a great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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