duane v Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Ya know.... OH BTW Happy Labor Day... Anywhoo, I always felt recording was a real pain for me, and I used to cringe every time (with my old band) we had time booked..... It's was like that poor dirty dog that you had to chase around the yard for hours to get a hose to it for a bath.. So here I am about two years later into doing the PortaStudio thing, and I'm not liking it.... .... And it had me thinking I shouldn't had been complaining about the old times.... Recording by yourself is very time consuming, and I find myself talking to "myself" trying to bounce ideas off of "myself."... I feel like a complete psycho Currently I'm vested 10 months in this project, and I'm barely arriving at the mix-down aspect of 7 tunes..... And I know I'm gonna find stuff that will need to be re-recorded.... To show how much I'm trying to cut corners, I purchased a TC-Helicon VoiceLive 2 Vocal to auto-correct for some bent notes on some of the vocals.... (ya know I do feel like a cheater)...LOL Well I was able to connect with all the members of my old band (I should refer to them as my old pals), and go in the studio and just lay down the tracks... And have it all done in two weeks..... Do some of you solo "Man Cave" recording players feel like I do???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete c Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Ya know.... OH BTW Happy Labor Day... Anywhoo, I always felt recording was a real pain for me, and I used to cringe every time (with my old band) we had time booked..... It's was like that poor dirty dog that you had to chase around the yard for hours to get a hose to it for a bath.. So here I am about two years later into doing the PortaStudio thing, and I'm not liking it.... .... And it had me thinking I shouldn't had been complaining about the old times.... Recording by yourself is very time consuming, and I find myself talking to "myself" trying to bounce ideas off of "myself."... I feel like a complete psycho Currently I'm vested 10 months in this project, and I'm barely arriving at the mix-down aspect of 7 tunes..... And I know I'm gonna find stuff that will need to be re-recorded.... To show how much I'm trying to cut corners, I purchased a TC-Helicon VoiceLive 2 Vocal to auto-correct for some bent notes on some of the vocals.... (ya know I do feel like a cheater)...LOL Well I was able to connect with all the members of my old band (I should refer to them as my old pals), and go in the studio and just lay down the tracks... And have it all done in two weeks..... Do some of you solo "Man Cave" recording players feel like I do???? every time i record alone i talk to myself. i dont feel alone now, and a little less psycho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 To me, all the recording I have done, either on my laptop or in a studio, has been with me being the engineer and doing all of the work. That's a chore. My dream is to get enough of a following, and get enough money from playing that I can afford to go into a real studio and have my own tech, that seems like a way better opportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Your recording system is based around a NEO.....One of my recording systems is built around a Korg D3200.....My other recordings are computer based....My demos turn out "eh" alright...I also do demos for others....However, regardless of how good one's home system is, the results depend on one's actual knowledge of recording....... I'm a recluse these days, for reasons of health, and otherwise, so, I'm stuck inside.....Now, I use my demo recordings to show examples of how I want my recordings to sound, when done pro.....I'm now working with a specific engineer / producer who knows his stuff.....I record tracks at 24 bit/48Hz......I send them to him.....We work together from there.......This is acheiving me TOP NOTCH RELEASABLE RECORDINGS......And, I'm learning how to do it like a pro in the process.....Once I have an actual home with the ability to make noise, I'll slowly be joining the big boys in having the skills to do PRO work.....But I'll still be having my pro engineer friends do all of the mastering and mixing processes.........So, sure, it's not hard to get good/nice home studio recordings...Will they be releasable (spec wise) ??? Usually not....... There are folks who have fully pro home studios.........They really know their stuff though........Going into an actual studio these days and achieving releasable results should cost only about two - three hundred per song.......Much cheaper than in the old days................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I think the split attention from recording and playing and singing "solo" can just about drive you nuts. I still mess with recording myself for practice purposes, but when I think, "Okay, I'm gonna put something up on Youtube again," it does seem kinda daunting. And that's even with me being kinda the "do it all in one take with no dubs and no real messing with the sound" old fashioned. It never seems to work with one take. Or ten. Or 20. 'Cuz inevitably I'm watching and thinking about tracking, modulation, vocal-guitar balance... And 10 takes kills a night. It's a lot easier doing a live gig... A lot. I think just having somebody watching the equipment while you're recording and to offer some feedback would help a lot. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djroge1 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Yes and no as far as how you feel. Yes when I am recording alone that is exactly how I feel. But when in a "real" studio that is where it flows for me. Keep in mind that we (our band) produced our own material so we didn't have the producer breathing down our necks. But I enjoyed what time I have had in the studio. Perhaps that is because when I was young - since around age 13 I always wanted to be a studio musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 A common error of musicians who record themselves, is to mix the recording process with the creative process...... They are completely different processes, and need to be kept seperate..Another error is for home studio musicians to think that they are always right, and that the recordings they are getting are good, when pros can point out otherwise......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFrills Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I personally like to do all the recording and then get a good ear or a few I can trust to listen, then I can go back to mastering. I don't find recording painful at all, although it can be frustrating at first when I am looking for the right sound. Once the technique is found to get the sound I make sure I remember it. Log it somewhere so I know how to achieve it again. Sometimes it can take a long time, or the requirement of more money invested to get the sound. No point trying to achieve a could which can not be made with the instruments, hardware or software if it is not capable of doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I have never done the home recording thing like you can do now. For demos, or recording for learning, I have always used a one track mono even if more was available. But for what it is worth, I think there is some great insight by everyone, and a good point made by this thread. I think for one, using other musicians is a LOT easier and faster and doesn't get enough credit. Especially drums. We all practice our craft to be as good as we can, and no matter how much we think we know what we want, a drummer is going to be a lot better and practiced at executing and laying down an effective track, even if he is not trying to be creative. But, the same goes for all the musicians-even another guitarist. I think there certainly is a lot to be said for taking time to explain something and letting another put full concentration to simply executing a part of a song the best it can be performed. I haven't recorded enough to really feel the dread of the work involved, and even though it is still a chore and not really fun, the anticipation of doing a good job and having it come out well is about the only thing to look forward to. I think the best end result is achieved by how well the performance can be recorded, and how close to the actual performance can be presented in a final product for the listener in a way that sounds good or great. If it isn't recorded well or there has to be a lot of fixing, that hurts the fidelity. I am a firm believer that a recording is a product for the listener, and the better the sound, the better the final product will be. I think the performance should serve the track being recorded. The idea of hoping for some moment of magic to happen that is worth saving and fixing is more of a pipe dream and a waste of time. I think doing a performance (a track) to serve the tape is a better approach than just playing random things and hoping something can be created later. Of corse, that takes a lot of the fun out-and it makes playing and concentrating on a performance more important, and more of a chore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 A common error of musicians who record themselves, is to mix the recording process with the creative process...... They are completely different processes, and need to be kept seperate.. Damian, I don't agree with you here. I don't think its an error at all. I record everything while i am writing...thats not to say its the final product. I tend to stitch everything together and when i feel the song is pretty much "written", i'll go back and re-record everything... Recording while writing helps me conceptualize and test layering etc. But to the OP... I have limited studio experience...i recorded 2 EP's with my old band in a studio and we had already written the songs and rehearsed the hell out of them. It was stressful to have someone produce your music and expect you to nail your parts...the energy of the other band mates was great and overall it definitely sounds better than my home recordings. At home i'm totally relaxed and while sometimes it is frustrating to be the producer and the performer, i've become so used to it that it doesn't bother me much anymore. Because I do this for fun, i put no pressure on myself and that helps a lot. I KNOW my home recordings could sound better and i think they keep getting better as I continue to write and record tracks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFrills Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Damian, I don't agree with you here. I don't think its an error at all. I record everything while i am writing...thats not to say its the final product. I tend to stitch everything together and when i feel the song is pretty much "written", i'll go back and re-record everything... Recording while writing helps me conceptualize and test layering etc. I KNOW my home recordings could sound better and i think they keep getting better as I continue to write and record tracks... This is exactly how I work. It's true and see it through my own recordings, how I have grown and have my own way of producing the final sound. Listening to various bands and noticing who their producers are, will give you an idea as to why the sound of certain bands sound similar in the timbre of their instruments and how they are mixed together when recorded. A good example would be listening to Tool Lateralus and Fornax Chemica Chemical Furnace. Two completely different bands with a very similar sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeriy Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I think Damian meant slightly another when he spoke about the separation of processes. Obviously these processes not should disturb each other, be more exact, sometimes the recording process can be a hard and routine work not so similar to creativity. Although it happens that the successful record terns out quickly, may be even from the first time. In this regard, Paul McCartney caught the moment of inspiration when to go into the studio, i.e. that to do successful recording in a short time as it is possible. I think it should be the maximum comfort for the recording, for example, inspiration can appear suddenly late at night. Therefore at home it is always necessary to have possibility just to push a button and that record is included at once. To record the guitar it can be very effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I think Damian meant slightly another when he spoke about the separation of processes. Obviously these processes not should disturb each other, be more exact, sometimes the recording process can be a hard and routine work not so similar to creativity. Although it happens that the successful record terns out quickly, may be even from the first time. In this regard, Paul McCartney caught the moment of inspiration when to go into the studio, i.e. that to do successful recording in a short time as it is possible. I think it should be the maximum comfort for the recording, for example, inspiration can appear suddenly late at night. Therefore at home it is always necessary to have possibility just to push a button and that record is included at once. To record the guitar it can be very effective. Recording takes money and time......Simple home recording can be done cheap.........Recording, whether HOME or PRO, takes talent, and creativity........... Being the recorder, and the recordee, are seperate.....One can be both, as in home recording.....But, the processes are still different....Both take skills and talent....... I have a Brit friend who's busting my b*lls because I state that Britney Spears is NOT a musician, and he claims that she is....She's not.....She's a PRODUCT...a fake...... She's a VENEER.........Anyways, both being the one being recorded and being the one recording are two different things....What makes recordings work is keeping the two components seperate..........One doesn't keep a mistress as a wife......It's that simple........My demos are demos, my pro work is pro work.....They are different...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Sorry damian, that post did not sway me. It can be kept separate but I don't believe it HAS to be...(to write and record good songs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I think what DAMIAN is sharing is very wise and insightful. Perhaps his point is not being understood. There is nothing wrong with using recording for the creative process. There is no rule that says you can't or shouldn't-and nothing that says you can't make a descent recording or use a track for a good recording. But consider this: say you have a good guitar line or a good vocal that you captured during the process. What is going to sound better? fixing and EQ on THAT track, or re-recording that track with a new performance using multiple mics? In most cases, a "pro" recording is not just a track or two recorded clean without noise and good eq. Often, something as simple as a vocal might be recorded with around six mics-mics up close, at the sides, and in the back of the room. Then, who ever mixes the recording may spend a lot of time blending and panning those mic feeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShredAstaire Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 But consider this: say you have a good guitar line or a good vocal that you captured during the process. What is going to sound better? fixing and EQ on THAT track, or re-recording that track with a new performance using multiple mics? Thats exactly what I said I do...i use recording to write the song and then i re-record it once i have the song ready to go... I'm still using "recording" to write the song...therefore, recording and writing are not separate. For me and many others. Perhaps I am misunderstanding damians point but he said "A common error of musicians who record themselves, is to mix the recording process with the creative process..." And I still don't believe that's an error. I think it can be detrimental if you use the same tracks you recorded while writing the song for the final product... All in all, it depends WHY you are writing/recording. If you're trying to make it big and make money, then you do it professionally and have an engineer do the recording for you....if you're just writing songs for yourself and to share with some friends, than why put rules and limitations on the process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Thats exactly what I said I do...i use recording to write the song and then i re-record it once i have the song ready to go... I'm still using "recording" to write the song...therefore, recording and writing are not separate. For me and many others. Perhaps I am misunderstanding damians point but he said "A common error of musicians who record themselves, is to mix the recording process with the creative process..." And I still don't believe that's an error. I think it can be detrimental if you use the same tracks you recorded while writing the song for the final product... All in all, it depends WHY you are writing/recording. If you're trying to make it big and make money, then you do it professionally and have an engineer do the recording for you....if you're just writing songs for yourself and to share with some friends, than why put rules and limitations on the process? Word. The way understood it, damian was talking about professionally recording, and if I'm paying over a grand a day, I don't think I'm gonna spend a whole 12 hour day working on a song, I wanna have the songs done before that. Sure, some tweaking always goes on, but for the most part... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valeriy Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Thanks for the clarification, Damian. The truth is that the question is what comes first, that a second. If the primal sources (tracking) are recorded well then further work will be less for the sound (mastering) engineer. And this primal source depends largely on the musician (his skill, preparedness to the record session…), i.e at the beginning the musician initiates, largely determines the future work in creating the product, whether it will be easy or difficult in further. In history it is known that a good sound engineer can be the key person in recording, at the beginning of the Beatles career George Martin demanded to replace the drummer Pit Best. The Beatles were still inexperienced in recording, George probably knew at once that a good record will not be. But later, experienced Lennon was as a leader of recording session. Tired in recording his song Strawberry Fields Forever he asked finally that George glued the parts of the 28th and the 2-nd takes. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 All I know is that recording at home has given me better playing skills, When I play improvising or something I have in my mind it sounds one way, when I record it things take on a different dimension, Recording makes me be more creative because I can layer stuf and interact with my own playing, At the same time recording can be a hassle altogether so it would be nice to have an experienced person recording and making suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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