Headstock Blemish?

[mpk1338]

Hi all,

 

I have a 2009 Gibson Les Paul Traditional, bought new from the factory. It has constantly been in a humidity and temperature steady environment, except for a drive from New York to Pennsylvania about 6 months ago. Both houses have relatively similar humidity and temperature levels, at least not enough to make a difference. I had to move it back to PA until I get a new place in New York that will allow me to play. Anyways, came home for the first time in a few months and got her out to restring, play, and just make sure it was still set up well, and noticed this (see attached files).

 

Anyone know what's going on? Is this a "gap" between the finish and the veneer of the headstock? Basically, what do I do? I know it's small, but it's only two years old and has been taken care of quite well - I would expect that something like this wouldn't just appear on my guitar.

 

Any ideas??

[mpk1338]

Well, I thought that perhaps the tightening "nut" on top of the machine head had come loose, unseating it a bit in such a way that when tension was applied to the string, it pulled it forward and would have created that separation. It was tight, though. Think this will spread at all, or happen on any of the other tuners? I'm certainly NOT happy with it as it is. I get it that my guitar isn't going to look like it's brand new in 20 years, but as stated - this is not something I would expect from Gibson. A guitar sitting in steady-state, normal temperature and humidity should not have separation between the finish and the veneer. If it happens here, what's saying it wont happen anywhere else there's stress on the guitar?

[JellyWheat]

Well, I thought that perhaps the tightening "nut" on top of the machine head had come loose, unseating it a bit in such a way that when tension was applied to the string, it pulled it forward and would have created that separation. It was tight, though. Think this will spread at all, or happen on any of the other tuners? I'm certainly NOT happy with it as it is. I get it that my guitar isn't going to look like it's brand new in 20 years, but as stated - this is not something I would expect from Gibson. A guitar sitting in steady-state, normal temperature and humidity should not have separation between the finish and the veneer. If it happens here, what's saying it wont happen anywhere else there's stress on the guitar?

 

I have seen this on one other Gibson: a 2009 ES 336 I almost bought until I noticed a virtually Identical blemish.

 

Now, this is pure speculation on my part, but a bit of contamination in the headstock veneer could cause an adhesion problem with the finish. If one were to tighten the tuning machine collar nut down onto the washer, you could conceivably cause a "flake" or "chip" of clear coat to come loose. It appears to me as though this is what has happened to your guitar.

 

I am more "anal" than Moishe, I think. The chip would bug the hell out of me, but he is correct in his belief that it is not serious, and id not a harbinger of worse things to come. Good news is that a clear lacquer stick, an alcohol lamp, and an artist's pallette knife will fix the problem in an hour or less, and will be invisible if you take it to somebody who knows what they are doing.

 

But it would bug the HELL out of me!

 

J/W

[BigKahune]

.

There have been similar issues posted here previously - mostly the finish separating from the headstock overlay. Some were much worse than what has happened to yours. Hopefully it will stop at this point and remain stable, and not grow. This is the worst one I've seen posted here - http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/711-to-admin-what-is-going-on-with-the-finish-of-my-les-paul-headstock-pic/ - In this case, one of the Admins recommended contacting C/S about it.

 

[mpk1338]

I assume it's the same problem pictured above, rather than a chip - I'm not sure that lacquer drip would help here, there isn't any material missing? I could be wrong about how lacquer drip works, but I thought it was for dents or chips.

 

I'm almost ready to call up CS before it gets as bad as the above picture. I didn't pay a premium for lacquer that doesn't stick.

[JellyWheat]

A lacquer stuck is for use with a hot knife... It is not a drip. If this is a blister and not a chip, a luthier will be able to repair it. It is not a DIY repair.

 

The blister will inevitably result in a chip... It's just a matter of time.

 

I would contact Gibson if I were you.

 

J/W

[mpk1338]

Thanks a bunch, J/W, and all others. I understand some, like Moishe, would just shrug it off, but this was my first big purchase. I'm only in my early 20s and this was a few paychecks and a decade of playing and dreaming, I can't stand it looking like this.

[stein]

Thanks a bunch, J/W, and all others. I understand some, like Moishe, would just shrug it off, but this was my first big purchase. I'm only in my early 20s and this was a few paychecks and a decade of playing and dreaming, I can't stand it looking like this.

I am not going to want to lead you to believe it IS a problem or is NOT a problem, because I don't know and no one can tell on the net without a close inspection.

 

But one thing you should be aware of, is that what makes a Gibson a Gibson has much more to do with playability and sound than finish perfection.

 

If you were to inspect CLOSELY a lot of Gibsons, including those played by those who made them famous, as well as vintage examples, you might find a lot of these flaws. But if you also compare older Gibbys to other brands, for the most part they will compare quite favorably with the effects of aging.

[mpk1338]

I am not going to want to lead you to believe it IS a problem or is NOT a problem, because I don't know and no one can tell on the net without a close inspection.

 

But one thing you should be aware of, is that what makes a Gibson a Gibson has much more to do with playability and sound than finish perfection.

 

If you were to inspect CLOSELY a lot of Gibsons, including those played by those who made them famous, as well as vintage examples, you might find a lot of these flaws. But if you also compare older Gibbys to other brands, for the most part they will compare quite favorably with the effects of aging.

 

Checking in nitro after 45 years is one thing - a problem like you can see developing in my headstock and seen in the one that BigKahune posted is completely different, especially on a guitar that is only 2 years old. It's unacceptable, and I find it hard to try to defend what you can see in these pictures by citing the playability. This is a quality issue, and it reflects poorly on the company - regardless of how it plays. As I said, I understand that this guitar is not going to look pristine in 20, 30, or 40 years. It's going to check. I'm going to bang it into things. My belt is going to worm the back, no matter how hard I try to prevent this. Sure, after 45 years, a 1967 Mustang that's been driven is going to show signs of wear - paint chipping, rust, etc. Do you think drivers would have been citing the vehicle's performance if the paint started bubbling and peeling in 1969? Doubtful.

 

Otherwise, the finish on this guitar was near perfect when I bought it, no orange peel, buffing was done nicely. That being said, I'm extremely disappointed. It may look small, and it may not spread to the extent shown in the extreme picture above, but it still angers me a bit.

[stein]

Checking in nitro after 45 years is one thing - a problem like you can see developing in my headstock and seen in the one that BigKahune posted is completely different, especially on a guitar that is only 2 years old. It's unacceptable, and I find it hard to try to defend what you can see in these pictures by citing the playability. This is a quality issue, and it reflects poorly on the company - regardless of how it plays. As I said, I understand that this guitar is not going to look pristine in 20, 30, or 40 years. It's going to check. I'm going to bang it into things. My belt is going to worm the back, no matter how hard I try to prevent this. Sure, after 45 years, a 1967 Mustang that's been driven is going to show signs of wear - paint chipping, rust, etc. Do you think drivers would have been citing the vehicle's performance if the paint started bubbling and peeling in 1969? Doubtful.

 

Otherwise, the finish on this guitar was near perfect when I bought it, no orange peel, buffing was done nicely. That being said, I'm extremely disappointed. It may look small, and it may not spread to the extent shown in the extreme picture above, but it still angers me a bit.

I think you misunderstand: I was not trying to say you had a problem or did not. I was trying to point out that just because a guitar develops a minor finish issue, does not mean in every case it will still not age well. In MOST cases, a minor blemish that may develop will remain a minor blemish.

 

Understand, also, the pic of the bad headstock was posted as an example of a worst case, and not meant to imply that is what is going to happen with yours.

 

You will get all kinds of different people with different views, both qualified and unqualified on a forum, and most are trying to be helpful to you. Even as some point out what to look for, I think the thing to keep in mind here is your particular blemish is so small you are not going to get an accurate answer telling you there is a problem developing or not.

[mpk1338]

I think you misunderstand: I was not trying to say you had a problem or did not. I was trying to point out that just because a guitar develops a minor finish issue, does not mean in every case it will still not age well. In MOST cases, a minor blemish that may develop will remain a minor blemish.

 

Understand, also, the pic of the bad headstock was posted as an example of a worst case, and not meant to imply that is what is going to happen with yours.

 

You will get all kinds of different people with different views, both qualified and unqualified on a forum, and most are trying to be helpful to you. Even as some point out what to look for, I think the thing to keep in mind here is your particular blemish is so small you are not going to get an accurate answer telling you there is a problem developing or not.

 

I think you misunderstand. Now that I know what's happening, I do not think this will alter the performance of my instrument. I am, however, angry at the quality. Take my example of the classic car, for instance. Paint peeling two years after production does not alter the performance of the engine, transmission, or anything that really contributes to the speed or handling of the vehicle (well, aerodynamics, but the effect would be negligible, especially considering the poor aerodynamic design in the first place). If you spent a premium for that car in 1967 and it starts peeling in 1969, are you angry at Ford? You bought it for both the looks and the performance - just as I did this guitar. You don't expect either one to degrade in such a way. I do expect checking, and other things that come with age - just like the head gasket on the engine isn't going to last for 45 or 50 years, rubber is going to harden and crack. But really - we're talking about the finish separating from the surface! I just can't find an excuse for it.

 

Understand, also, that I stated exactly the same thing, as evident by my words "and it may not spread to the extent shown in the extreme picture above". I expressed in an explicit way that I understand that this photo was an "extreme" circumstance and that it may not progress to that level. I am not afraid of this - it is unlikely, and were it to progress to this level, I have faith that Gibson would step in to rectify the issue free of charge.

 

Finally, please understand that I'm taking all of your opinions into consideration with equal weight, and I do respect them. Just because we have a difference in opinion on this matter doesn't mean I'm not listening. After all, I still do respect Gibson, and we both chose their guitars (we must agree on something, huh?). I'm just angry at this level of quality - I expected better at ~$2500. I'm not just giving up on them, though, I'm still keeping this.

[badbluesplayer]

This won't help your particular guitar, but it seems to me that if they reamed a little taper into the top of the tuner peg holes before they installed the tuners it might help prevent that particular problem.

 

I'm guessing that the forward pressure from the tuner post against the overlay caused the thing to delaminate.

[mpk1338]

badbluesplayer - same thing I was expecting - rather I thought that perhaps the nut on top came loose and allowed such a movement of the peg that pressure was applied towards the nut when the string was tensioned. As stated, though, was that it felt to be at the right tightness when checked. Whatever way it happened, I think it's evident that the tuner is applying too much forward pressure when the string is tensioned, cracking the finish from the surface. As such, I really thing this is more of a mechanical problem rather than a finish problem that would arise from checking. You can see in the "extreme" photo above that some of those lines do have cracks, which would allow moisture to create further separation between the finish and the guitar - thus making the checking appear much worse and creating that "zebra" look.

 

That being said, I'm confident that this isn't going to be a persistent problem, except for the fact that there is now separation and I'd be worried about humidity working its way in. Plan is to just contact Gibson after the holidays and see if they will rectify the situation.

[dabrains]

Mine is the same, 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Only at the bottom of the tuning peg holes which leads me to believe it has more to do with tension on the veneer finish. Called Gibson and sent pictures. They insist it's water damage. Relative humidity is low and there was no water near my instrument. I was disappointed they really had no "logical" explanation even when I debunked their "moisture" theory.

[pippy]

...They insist it's water damage. Relative humidity is low and there was no water near my instrument...

Contamination from tuning peg lubricant coupled with pressure from strings / posts?

 

P.

[capmaster]

About four months ago, a Les Paul guitar of mine had this kind of damage coming up around the tailpiece bushings when two years old. I brought her to the Thomann service, and they did a touch-up repair filling the gaps between wood and finish.

[Gunner]

I tightened the nuts on the tuners of a Les Paul Traditional once and it did this exact thing at a couple of the tuners. Perhaps someone over tightened them before you got it. Has never happened to me on other guitars, but from now on only finger tight for me on nitro guitars.

 

I didn't read through all the above posts but I'm sure a competent luthier could fix this good as new. I don't believe Gibson warranty covers finish issues.

[codename]

My 2010 Trad did the same thing. Hate to say , but it keeps getting worse.

 

[CharlieP]

I have seen this same bubbling in another forum.The owner sent his guitar back to Gibson for evaluation. Gibson replaced the guitar. Easier for them to replace than fix I guess!

[Dg77]

.

There have been similar issues posted here previously - mostly the finish separating from the headstock overlay. Some were much worse than what has happened to yours. Hopefully it will stop at this point and remain stable, and not grow. This is the worst one I've seen posted here - http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/711-to-admin-what-is-going-on-with-the-finish-of-my-les-paul-headstock-pic/ - In this case, one of the Admins recommended contacting C/S about it.

 

 

 

This looks like termites!