I think my SG has a problem

[WDeranged]

I've recently been searching for a nice looking SG Special Faded and after weeks of hunting I found her on ebay, the only worrying thing I noticed during the initial set up was that the truss rod nut was barely tightened. After three days of playing and tweaking I've found that I simply can't tweak out these small rattles in the middle of the fretboard, unfortunately even with the truss rod nut completely loosened I only have .012" of relief

 

I checked my other SG and found that I had far more adjustment, the truss rod does exactly what it should and I could dial in as much relief as I liked, this is something of a bummer as I love the look of the new SG and she's otherwise a great guitar.

 

Last night I left the nut loose and cranked up the string tension to see if the neck would correct but as of this afternoon I see no change, it doesn't look good and any advice would be welcome, the seller says that he accepts returns but that would be my last resort.

 

Thanks.

[EVOL!]

It sounds like there is more going on. To me the truss rod is a fine tune tool. I see a trip to your local guitar tech to look at the bridge and nut height. Before that, though, I would look at raising the bridge and adjusting from there. You might have a bad fret too that is causing the notes to buzz (I think you meant buzz and not rattle).

 

Conversely, you may have the same problem I had with a nineties Epiphone Coronet RI. The neck wasn't planed correctly so no matter how much adjustment was done, notes would fret out between about the ninth and fifteenth frets.

 

Not sure if it matters, but I'll ask before anyone else does - what gauge strings do you play and how hard do you pick?

[WDeranged]

It sounds like there is more going on. To me the truss rod is a fine tune tool. I see a trip to your local guitar tech to look at the bridge and nut height. Before that, though, I would look at raising the bridge and adjusting from there. You might have a bad fret too that is causing the notes to buzz (I think you meant buzz and not rattle).

 

Conversely, you may have the same problem I had with a nineties Epiphone Coronet RI. The neck wasn't planed correctly so no matter how much adjustment was done, notes would fret out between about the ninth and fifteenth frets.

 

Not sure if it matters, but I'll ask before anyone else does - what gauge strings do you play and how hard do you pick?

 

Guitar techs and luthiers are as rare as unicorns and leprechauns in my town, as much as I'd love to pass this problem over to an expert it's really down to me to fix it. I like my action slightly higher than Gibson's specs and have it set to 3/32 bass side, 5/64 treble side. I checked all the frets with a straight edge and if I do have a bad one I can't spot it, besides the buzz is spread out over several frets from 5-10 on the heavy strings, I use 11's and I do indeed mean fret buzz and not rattle, apologies :)

 

My other SG is an almost identical Faded Brown, I can easily add the relief I need with a small adjustment to the truss rod and fret buzz is minimal, I do like more relief than the standard Gibson .012" as I pick the strings pretty hard for bluesy stuff. My new SG's neck appears to be bowing backwards slightly, a light fingered strummer certainly wouldn't notice an issue but heavy picking is definitely bringing the buzzes.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

*update*

 

Checked the guitar when I got home, the neck has corrected ever so slightly, not much but measurable with feeler gauges, fingers are crossed.

[bobouz]

Guitar techs and luthiers are as rare as unicorns and leprechauns in my town

Same here! You might want to see what happens if you bring the neck up under tension with the truss rod nut backed off & leave it there while monitoring for about a week. This might allow the wood enough time to find a new shape.

[WDeranged]

Same here! You might want to see what happens if you bring the neck up under tension with the truss rod nut backed off & leave it there while monitoring for about a week. This might allow the wood enough time to find a new shape.

 

After measuring a definite change in relief this is exactly what I'm thinking, the only real problem is that I have three days left to return the guitar, beyond that I'm not covered by distance selling regulations, the seller seemed like a decent guy though, so I'll get in touch with him and work it out :)

[strat-o-steve]

Have you looked at the neck to see if there is a hump in the fretboard around the neck/body joint? If there is, no amount of truss rod adjustment will correct this, but it may simply be a humidity issue. Properly humidify the guitar to around 45% relative humidity. If there is a hump, and that fixes it, you are good to go! Otherwise you have to have the fretboard planed to true and then refretted. If there is no hump in the fretboard, then you have a serious issue. The wood has either warped, or the guitar was likely exposed to high temps that cause the glue bond between the fretboard and neck wood to soften and slip (creep). If you have .012" relief, that is plenty for most normal string gauges that most would use. Keep in mind that too much relief can cause frets to buzz higher up the neck as well.

[WDeranged]

Have you looked at the neck to see if there is a hump in the fretboard around the neck/body joint? If there is, no amount of truss rod adjustment will correct this, but it may simply be a humidity issue. Properly humidify the guitar to around 45% relative humidity. If there is a hump, and that fixes it, you are good to go! Otherwise you have to have the fretboard planed to true and then refretted. If there is no hump in the fretboard, then you have a serious issue. The wood has either warped, or the guitar was likely exposed to high temps that cause the glue bond between the fretboard and neck wood to soften and slip (creep). If you have .012" relief, that is plenty for most normal string gauges that most would use. Keep in mind that too much relief can cause frets to buzz higher up the neck as well.

 

Thanks for the detailed reply, as far as I can tell there is no hump at the neck/body join, I've got a small steel ruler and a bright LED torch so I quickly checked all the upper fretboard, it appears to be perfectly flat and true, I also quickly checked all the lower frets with a credit card as a rocker, if there are imperfections in the fretwork it will take someone with better eyes to spot them. Besides, fret buzz above the 12th fret isn't much of an issue on this guitar, what little there is I can deal with, it just gets pretty noticeable between the 5th and 11th frets on the low strings.

[rct]

Thanks for the detailed reply, as far as I can tell there is no hump at the neck/body join, I've got a small steel ruler and a bright LED torch so I quickly checked all the upper fretboard, it appears to be perfectly flat and true, I also quickly checked all the lower frets with a credit card as a rocker, if there are imperfections in the fretwork it will take someone with better eyes to spot them. Besides, fret buzz above the 12th fret isn't much of an issue on this guitar, what little there is I can deal with, it just gets pretty noticeable between the 5th and 11th frets on the low strings.

 

Noticeable through an amp?

 

rct

[WDeranged]

Noticeable through an amp?

 

rct

 

Not in the slightest bit when using overdrive but clean sounds do let it through.

[rct]

Two things:

 

1.) Stop dinking with the truss, it's usually the last thing you need to do. Nut and bridge are far more useful for curing this.

 

2.) Abandon all numbers, calipers, micrometers, and measuring sticks. Set the strings up until they DON'T buzz, nice and clean all over the neck. When that happens, play it for a week as it is, take it out and use it often. Whatever you are doing now that tells you it needs relief, do it again after that time with the strings up enough to not buzz. Adjust the truss then. I'm trying to say that just because strings buzz unplugged does not mean you need a truss tweak at all, it means the strings are hitting something else and may just be hitting something else because they are too low for that guitar.

 

I have nine guitars at the moment, none of my current and none of my lifetime of guitars has ever even had a ruler put on the string height. Set them until they sound right, play them until they feel right, each guitar will more than likely be different.

 

rct

[Sinner 13]

Two things:

 

1.) Stop dinking with the truss, it's usually the last thing you need to do. Nut and bridge are far more useful for curing this.

 

2.) Abandon all numbers, calipers, micrometers, and measuring sticks. Set the strings up until they DON'T buzz, nice and clean all over the neck. When that happens, play it for a week as it is, take it out and use it often. Whatever you are doing now that tells you it needs relief, do it again after that time with the strings up enough to not buzz. Adjust the truss then. I'm trying to say that just because strings buzz unplugged does not mean you need a truss tweak at all, it means the strings are hitting something else and may just be hitting something else because they are too low for that guitar.

 

I have nine guitars at the moment, none of my current and none of my lifetime of guitars has ever even had a ruler put on the string height. Set them until they sound right, play them until they feel right, each guitar will more than likely be different.

 

rct

 

That's is also how I set up mine, In over 20 years of doing my own set ups I find this to be the best working theory.

Plus I like just the teensiest bit of Rattle, I also Almost never play completely clean either.

[Angellus]

Two things:

 

1.) Stop dinking with the truss, it's usually the last thing you need to do. Nut and bridge are far more useful for curing this.

 

2.) Abandon all numbers, calipers, micrometers, and measuring sticks. Set the strings up until they DON'T buzz, nice and clean all over the neck. When that happens, play it for a week as it is, take it out and use it often. Whatever you are doing now that tells you it needs relief, do it again after that time with the strings up enough to not buzz. Adjust the truss then. I'm trying to say that just because strings buzz unplugged does not mean you need a truss tweak at all, it means the strings are hitting something else and may just be hitting something else because they are too low for that guitar.

 

I have nine guitars at the moment, none of my current and none of my lifetime of guitars has ever even had a ruler put on the string height. Set them until they sound right, play them until they feel right, each guitar will more than likely be different.

 

rct

 

its true thats how I set mine up, by feel and sound, no 2 guitars are the same

 

saying that my rhythm guitarists Epiphone Custom has a similiar issue, some but not much relief and nut slackens off, I've not had the chance to have her on my work bench yet (the guitar not my rhythm guitarist) to find an alternative solution but logic would dictate that raising the bridge would increase the angle of the strings to the neck, increasing tension and therefore increasing relief.

 

Correct me if im wrong? i'll have to take her guitar and test out the theory, its certainly not isolated issues but would make perfect sense

[sg50]

Since you've got another SG already anyway, maybe you should consider getting yourself a nice bottle neck slide. \:D/

[WDeranged]

Thanks for all the replies and advice, with each passing day the SG's neck slowly returns to it's correct position, if I'm lucky it will stay that way, with regards to putting down my tools I really do understand what you guys are saying but it's not like I sit here chasing measurements, it's a process of tweaking, feeling, noting what I did and then tweaking some more, different strokes for different folks as they say :)

[WDeranged]

Since you've got another SG already anyway, maybe you should consider getting yourself a nice bottle neck slide. \:D/

 

I've been tempted to get one of those anyway :)

[10K-DB]

Hi,,just a thought. have you "sight lined" the neck? Meaning,,look down the neck{with the bridge facing you,looking tword the nut}and compare the straight line of the high E string,,and the low E string to the straight line of the edge of the neck,,many times seeing this will tell you if your neck is warped,,or which way to adjust the truss rod. If you live in a humid climate,,or god forbid if you leave the guitar in a hot car all day,,guitars dont like being in these environments. That may be a starting point. There may be a "bow" to the neck that is causing problems. Best of luck to ya on this,,,Scooter.