JuanCarlosVejar Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Friends, these goodies will soon be at music villa and on the acoustic letter youtube reviews : by the way through the gibson acoustic facebook I have learned that an Archtop model in honor of GHOST RIDER's IN THE SKY will be released here is a pic of Ren and DOug from a few years back : JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Uh oh. AJ TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Uh oh. AJ TV. + 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyReb Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 How are they going to make the AJ more vintage than it already is? It's not like AJ's are straight braced and a TV version is needed to get the forward shifted bracing, they already have it. Of course Brazilian RW would make a difference though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fp Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 How are they going to make the AJ more vintage than it already is? It's not like AJ's are straight braced and a TV version is needed to get the forward shifted bracing, they already have it. Of course Brazilian RW would make a difference though Very few , if any of the original AJ's from the thirties were Brazilian rosewood. Most if not all were Indian rosewood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 How are they going to make the AJ more vintage than it already is? It's not like AJ's are straight braced and a TV version is needed to get the forward shifted bracing, they already have it. Of course Brazilian RW would make a difference though Red Spruce top, I'm sure. They could taper the headstock while they're at it (when seen in profile, a vintage AJ's headstock is thicker at the bottom two tuners than it is at the top two). My rosewood AJ's headstock is pretty uniform in depth. My maple one has only a slight taper. My Epiphone Masterbilt AJ-500M and R have vintage headstock tapers, for cryin' out loud, and they're 1/5 of the price. The headstock taper is more than a cosmetic detail. It causes the tuner shafts to be higher towards the top of the headstock, and get progressively lower toward the nut. That changes the angle that the strings break over the nut, which has some effect on feel and tone (I believe). Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 OOHHHH I like them guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 How are they going to make the AJ more vintage than it already is? It's not like AJ's are straight braced and a TV version is needed to get the forward shifted bracing, they already have it. Of course Brazilian RW would make a difference though maybe lighter bracing ? JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 They could taper the headstock while they're at it ... I predict that they will not do this. Robi's made a huge deal about the accuracy of the headstock on the '38 Golden Age SJ-200s. The profile is different, and even the truss rod recess is a little higher so that there is more space between the truss rod cover and the nut. Looks spot on ... from the front. From the side, the lack of taper is pretty obvious. If they got it wrong on that one, when they were trying really really hard to get it right, I doubt that the headstock on a "mere" TV will be more accurate. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 ... I have learned that an Archtop model in honor of GHOST RIDER's IN THE SKY will be released here is a pic of Ren and DOug from a few years back : ... That's "Riders in the Sky" -- no "Ghost". I got to check out some of those L-5 prototypes at the factory awhile back. (At least Ren was calling them L-5s rather than L-7s, because of the rectangular fretboard inlays, at the time. But, for some reason, every Bozeman-built archtop seems to be called an L-7, regardless of the level of appointments.) The best one, and I'm betting the one Ranger Doug (Idol of American Youth) settled on, was braced like a Stromberg rather than a Gibson. Doug is a huge Stromberg fan -- he has what is thought to be the world's finest collection, at least one of every model -- although he played an L-5 on stage for a long time. Anyway, that was a very, very nice guitar, in the running for the best Gibson archtop I've every played. It will be interesting to hear the one at Music Villa. -- Bob [Added later: I fixed Ranger Doug's title. How embarrassing!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 That's "Riders in the Sky" -- no "Ghost". I got to check out some of those L-5 prototypes at the factory awhile back. (At least Ren was calling them L-5s rather than L-7s, because of the rectangular fretboard inlays, at the time. But, for some reason, every Bozeman-built archtop seems to be called an L-7, regardless of the level of appointments.) The best one, and I'm betting the one Ranger Doug (Hero of America's Youth) settled on, was braced like a Stromberg rather than a Gibson. Doug is a huge Stromberg fan -- he has what is thought to be the world's finest collection, at least one of every model -- although he played an L-5 on stage for a long time. Anyway, that was a very, very nice guitar, in the running for the best Gibson archtop I've every played. It will be interesting to hear the one at Music Villa. -- Bob exactly bob check this comment out : Mark Clark L-7 ?? The f-holes and tail piece look like a Stromberg-ish prototype of a new acoustic archtop Ren Ferguson/Gibson were planning recently in conjunction w/Riders in the Sky guitarist Ranger Doug. Will this ever go in to production? reply: Gibson Acoustic Guitars Mark Clark we're working on them, but as you might imagine they're not quick to produce. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Very few , if any of the original AJ's from the thirties were Brazilian rosewood. Most if not all were Indian rosewood. Nice job! I think you have a great future in diplomacy! :) -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 exactly bob check this comment out : Mark Clark L-7 ?? The f-holes and tail piece look like a Stromberg-ish prototype of a new acoustic archtop Ren Ferguson/Gibson were planning recently in conjunction w/Riders in the Sky guitarist Ranger Doug. Will this ever go in to production? reply: Gibson Acoustic Guitars Mark Clark we're working on them, but as you might imagine they're not quick to produce. Hmmm, maybe I'm making a mistake ignoring the existence of Facebook as best I can. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 exactly bob check this comment out : Mark Clark L-7 ?? The f-holes and tail piece look like a Stromberg-ish prototype of a new acoustic archtop Ren Ferguson/Gibson were planning recently in conjunction w/Riders in the Sky guitarist Ranger Doug. Will this ever go in to production? reply: Gibson Acoustic Guitars Mark Clark we're working on them, but as you might imagine they're not quick to produce. JC Those f-holes are WAY different from any L-7 I've seen. If the guitar came up on ebay, you'd think it was a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I predict that they will not do this. Robi's made a huge deal about the accuracy of the headstock on the '38 Golden Age SJ-200s. The profile is different, and even the truss rod recess is a little higher so that there is more space between the truss rod cover and the nut. Looks spot on ... from the front. From the side, the lack of taper is pretty obvious. If they got it wrong on that one, when they were trying really really hard to get it right, I doubt that the headstock on a "mere" TV will be more accurate. -- Bob R They taper the headstock on the Legend J-45. Maybe on a Legend AJ or some similar designation, then. I've not seen a Golden Age SJ-200. Interesting that they would choose no taper. What's their rationale, do you suppose? Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fp Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Nice job! I think you have a great future in diplomacy! :) -- Bob R Never been known for being subtle ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 They taper the headstock on the Legend J-45. Maybe on a Legend AJ or some similar designation, then. I've not seen a Golden Age SJ-200. Interesting that they would choose no taper. What's their rationale, do you suppose? Red 333 Headstock on my L-OO Legend is also tapered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 What's their rationale, do you suppose? No idea, really. Though one friend advanced the theory that, post-Ren, no one at the factory knew it's supposed to taper. :) -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 No idea, really. Though one friend advanced the theory that, post-Ren, no one at the factory knew it's supposed to taper. :) -- Bob R Ouch! Maybe Bozeman needs a resident geezer to pop the whippersnappers behind the ear, and say "that ain't the way we used to do it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Ouch! Maybe Bozeman needs a resident geezer to pop the whippersnappers behind the ear, and say "that ain't the way we used to do it". Or the internet. Just Google 1938 Gibson J-200 and you can find pictures of the headstock. You'd think someone would do that kind of basic, easy research. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Just Google 1938 Gibson J-200 and you can find pictures of the headstock. You'd think someone would do that kind of basic, easy research. In fairness, they did a lot more than that, including obtaining copies of a number of those expensive Japanese guitar collection books full of lovingly taken professional close-up photos. That's how they got the relatively subtle differences in headstock profile and truss rod cover location right. It's kind of inexplicable really, but the folks in Bozeman have a long history of getting the details slightly wrong. Even with Fred (J-1854Me) dropping in every once in awhile to straighten them out, and the best of intentions, they never seem to get vintage repros 100% right. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 How are they going to make the AJ more vintage than it already is? It's not like AJ's are straight braced and a TV version is needed to get the forward shifted bracing, they already have it. Of course Brazilian RW would make a difference though Don't worry, marketing will find a way ... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 In fairness, they did a lot more than that, including obtaining copies of a number of those expensive Japanese guitar collection books full of lovingly taken professional close-up photos. That's how they got the relatively subtle differences in headstock profile and truss rod cover location right. It's kind of inexplicable really, but the folks in Bozeman have a long history of getting the details slightly wrong. Even with Fred (J-1854Me) dropping in every once in awhile to straighten them out, and the best of intentions, they never seem to get vintage repros 100% right. -- Bob R Bob , what if they detected the taper as a flaw ??? (could it be a flaw?) . I know Martin did research on there repo D 45 that cost something around 45k . but they came up with a series of specs they thought were good enough ... they didn't just copy every spec ... and I guess it would be logical to not include or eliminate specs that could become a flaw of some kind . And I'm not defending Gibson in getting it wrong ... I'm just saying there might be a reason in not including some detail JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Bob , what if they detected the taper as a flaw ??? (could it be a flaw?) . I know Martin did research on there repo D 45 that cost something around 45k . but they came up with a series of specs they thought were good enough ... they didn't just copy every spec ... and I guess it would be logical to not include or eliminate specs that could become a flaw of some kind . And I'm not defending Gibson in getting it wrong ... I'm just saying there might be a reason in not including some detail JC Not sure how the tapered headstock could be a flaw. That's not where the necks break, after all. Certainly the tapered headstock looks more refined and "finished" to my eye. It also slightly changes the balance of the guitar away from a headstock-heavy bias, but I would be surprised if it removes more than 50 grams or so of material. Not sure if the headstock angle is measured relative to the the face of the headstock, or along the back. Certainly the taper might change the nominal headstock angle. All my Gibson acoustics have tapered headstocks, so I can't make any real comparisons. None of my Gibson electrics has a tapered headstock. As a reference, the headstock taper is typically about 1/8" (3+mm) over the length of the headstock. As I understand it, this went away (at least on the J-45)in about 1954-'55, along with the teardrop pickguard and the 19-fret board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 what if they detected the taper as a flaw ??? (could it be a flaw?) .... I wouldn't say "flaw", but it's certainly possible they noticed the taper and decided not to do it for some reason. That's the story for why they went with a bone saddle rather than the six little brass saddles on the original -- every agrees that the individual saddles were a big mistake, tonally. (At least that was the story after they got called on it. :) ) -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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