J-200 Koa Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 http://www.ebay.com/itm/300783291764?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Gotta be a fake. Horrible burst job and the Gibson headstock logo is not quite right ... and thats just the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 run Forrest run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 i don't know... I am no expert be a very long shot.. but alot of things look right to me.. the tuners and stamp on back of headstock for one.. case looks like its ok... looks like good workmanship on neck heel ect i'll prob get shot down.. but I am unsure... I know burst is not very good..and burst on back ????? i wouldn't buy it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 This must be from Gibson's new China plant! Special order indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 if this is fake..it is one of the best i have seen here.. I am not sying it is genuine i do not know enough about Gibsons..or guitars in general..... but some of the details..taking away the burst..and odd looking shape..which I assume is down to photo....are spot on am i wrong in thinking the back of the headstock and tuners look to be spot on ? the neck at join at sound hole and back look good to me also.. do Gibson do this type of neck heel on this or any other model? apart from the burst..what are the main things that shout this is fake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Ok guys i think shes genuine..... let the bullets rain !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 if this is fake..it is one of the best i have seen here.. I am not sying it is genuine i do not know enough about Gibsons..or guitars in general..... but some of the details..taking away the burst..and odd looking shape..which I assume is down to photo....are spot on am i wrong in thinking the back of the headstock and tuners look to be spot on ? the neck at join at sound hole and back look good to me also.. do Gibson do this type of neck heel on this or any other model? apart from the burst..what are the main things that shout this is fake? Because some makers of fakes like to come on forums such as this to build a better fake, it is often bad "karma" to go into detail about what is wrong or right. We don't want to help them. As an example, there ARE a couple of details that are closer or better executed than in the past. Obviously, gained from info on "how to spot a fake". No doubt about it. I will say that just about EVERY detail of this guitar insures it isn't made by Gibson. There isn't a piece on it that looks genuine to me. When you consider that this is definitely, and easily NOT a Gibson, what does that say about the sellers story? Can it be true? Do you think he has been fooled or is he the one making up the lies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Because some makers of fakes like to come on forums such as this to build a better fake, it is often bad "karma" to go into detail about what is wrong or right. We don't want to help them. As an example, there ARE a couple of details that are closer or better executed than in the past. Obviously, gained from info on "how to spot a fake". No doubt about it. I will say that just about EVERY detail of this guitar insures it isn't made by Gibson. There isn't a piece on it that looks genuine to me. When you consider that this is definitely, and easily NOT a Gibson, what does that say about the sellers story? Can it be true? Do you think he has been fooled or is he the one making up the lies? I really do not think any person in the business of faking Gibson guitar will pay much attention to even the official Gibson forum. They will just try and copy a genuine model the best they can..or modify an already built similar looking guitar. As part of a community i think it would help genuine Gibson fans to know what makes this so obvious a fake... forget the burst Those tunes look EXACTLY like the ones on my HB TV ..all be a differnt colour.. not that unusual ?? The head stock is EXACT shape of my Gibson The Gibson logo is THE BEST i have seen if fake The inside of guitar with center strip and sticker look good On more investigation the sell has 2 positive buyer replies from previous sales.. from 2011.. one being a 1964 Gretsh Guitar If fake I'm guessing he has been fooled himself and is trying to sell I get your points Stein..but I really don't think talking in a community about Gibson guitars and how they are built is gonna make one bit of difference to counterfeiters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Del, you really cant tell this logo is all crooked ? Maybe Ive spent too much time working with logos being in the advertising business, but as an example look at the Gibson 'G' in the logo, and specifically the left side of the G. The correct Gibson logo will have a very straight left part of the G, while the one her is curved. Infact all letters are slightly screwed up in terms of typography .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Ok I have been put in my place.. thanks Stein..this conversation has now been taken private B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Del, you really cant tell this logo is all crooked ? Maybe Ive spent too much time working with logos being in the advertising business, but as an example look at the Gibson 'G' in the logo, and specifically the left side of the G. The correct Gibson logo will have a very straight left part of the G, while the one her is curved. Infact all letters are slightly screwed up in terms of typography .. i see it now EA cheers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I have never seen a J-200 without a bound headstock. Does not mean that they do not exist, just that I have never run across one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I really do not think any person in the business of faking Gibson guitar will pay much attention to even the official Gibson forum. They will just try and copy a genuine model the best they can..or modify an already built similar looking guitar. As part of a community i think it would help genuine Gibson fans to know what makes this so obvious a fake... forget the burst Those tunes look EXACTLY like the ones on my HB TV ..all be a differnt colour.. not that unusual ?? The head stock is EXACT shape of my Gibson The Gibson logo is THE BEST i have seen if fake The inside of guitar with center strip and sticker look good On more investigation the sell has 2 positive buyer replies from previous sales.. from 2011.. one being a 1964 Gretsh Guitar If fake I'm guessing he has been fooled himself and is trying to sell I get your points Stein..but I really don't think talking in a community about Gibson guitars and how they are built is gonna make one bit of difference to counterfeiters. It already has made a difference. What was talked about last year as to what the obvious things to look for has already been changed. And, also, look at the details who mention as looking good? Don't you think these details are easily forged? and, where do you think they get the info on how to do these "correct"? I have seen in the past a few on here that came and went, that I HIGHLY suspect were counterfitters looking for info, as that is the only things they asked about. That doesn't include those who do not join, but just read. You have been on here as long as me I think. Remember those? If you were a counterfitter, where would you go for info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Ok I have been put in my place.. thanks Stein..this conversation has now been taken private B) Lol...there is no "putting you in your place". You make good points and these are good questions. I PM'ed you private because obviously, you are not a counterfitter and I wanted to share the details of what is wrong with the guitar without giving the thieves the "good stuff". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It already has made a difference. What was talked about last year as to what the obvious things to look for has already been changed. And, also, look at the details who mention as looking good? Don't you think these details are easily forged? and, where do you think they get the info on how to do these "correct"? I have seen in the past a few on here that came and went, that I HIGHLY suspect were counterfitters looking for info, as that is the only things they asked about. That doesn't include those who do not join, but just read. You have been on here as long as me I think. Remember those? If you were a counterfitter, where would you go for info? Haha i do remeber that GOTO character..had my suspisions about him swines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Haha i do remeber that GOTO character..had my suspisions about him swines I don't know about him being a faker, and to be honest, I didn't read much of his stuff. I do remember a couple instances where a "member" would be on for only a short time, and ONLY bring up subjects about fakes, and ask for DETAIL, and ask the questions in detail as well. Pretty bold, if you ask me. I also remember a guy who would keep posting links to sites that sold fakes with the caption something like "found another one- watch out for these". It got wierd when he kept doing it and seemed to be trying to keep the site always up. Just sayin. They ARE out there and reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 . As fakes go, not too bad. As has been mentioned as glaring - headstock binding, headstock script logo slant and the bad burst. Also the bridge ribbons between the saddle and pins aren't right. The back looks like hog both from the back and through the soundhole and the markers are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Would someone please tell me what kind of wood that back is? It certainly isn't either maple or rosewood. Looks for all the world like a number of Asian hardwoods marketed under various "mahogany" pseudonyms. I always thought "SJ" in the context of this body shape meant "super jumbo", not "southern jumbo". Sorry. I ain't buyin' it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Because some makers of fakes like to come on forums such as this to build a better fake, it is often bad "karma" to go into detail about what is wrong or right. We don't want to help them. .... Stein - you should be emailing Gibson with this argument as Gibson has a couple of web pages on spotting fakes. Gibson feels education on spotting fakes is important, and so do I. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Stein - you should be emailing Gibson with this argument as Gibson has a couple of web pages on spotting fakes. Gibson feels education on spotting fakes is important, and so do I. . Well now, it really isn't an arguement. I am not the one in charge of deciding what is right or wrong, and more importantly, I am only a guy on a forum that might want to offer a LITTLE help where I can. Those who are actually doing something about it or going after them are the ones who SHOULD be calling the shots. I realize that Gibson has info on "how to spot fakes" that are available to those who can't tell, as a help to them. But I might add that there is info NOT included in them, and they are likely carefully chosen. I would think that they would want to strike a balence between helping poeple from getting ripped off, and NOT helping those who read them build a better fake. But mainly, I say here, I am NOT the guy who decides what should be told or not be told. I am just rather saying it is good to be careful about what info a guy blurts out that might end up being more helpful to those looking to forge than to some looking to learn to spot fakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I don't actually agree that it's a particularly good fake. Perhaps some details are improved over previous frauds, but I've personally never seen a counterfeit Southern Jumbo 200 which had so much in common with a knock-off Martin OOOM. Nor have I ever encountered a genuine Southern Jumbo 200 owner before. Or a genuine OOOM owner for that matter. Perhaps I should custom order the first real Southern Jumbo 2000M. French heels are not unknown on Gibsons, as PM can confirm. But there are French heels and French heels. This one sticks out like a sore thumb. I don't think that saying this much is aiding the fraudsters, do you Stein? It's not really specific enough to help them. Difficult balance between keeping potential fakers in the dark and potential victims enlightened. Evidently Stein's point is well made. If we divulge too much information too easily, then the fraudsters will be better able to hoodwink their victims. On the other hand, if we make full info widely available, the easy victims will cease to exist, putting the lazy fakers out of business. If the counterfeiters have to pay such attention to their work that they effectively reproduce a Gibson down to the very last detail, I'm not sure that they'll be making much of a profit from their crime - though they will still be hurting Gibson and commiting a crime. At the point where all buyers are wise to all the short cuts, the dodgy dealers have to produce quality goods and can't afford to stay in business. I do think that due diligence on the part of the buyer may be the best safeguard. Caveat emptor: don't buy from somebody who doesn't have a watertight returns policy, unless you can inspect and try before you buy. Don't buy from somebody who tries to sell you a Martin J45 or a Gibson OM. Saving all the knowledge for PMs does put an extra safeguard in place if we think that supply-side ignorance is a more powerful defence than demand-side knowledge. But what if we found ourselves PM-ing a counterfeiter masquerading as a potential customer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Haha i do remeber that GOTO character..had my suspisions about him swines gotomsdos was simply a good and enthusiastic guy from a culture unfamiliar to many of us who was chased off this forum by bigots. It was the low point in the history of this forum. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 . @Stein/@Mojorule - good points. As Mojorule pointed out, it's a bit of a dilemma. Now you've both got me thinking - I've reported numerous fakes on fleaBay. I'm wondering if getting an item kicked as a fake has more of an influence and the "improvement" in counterfeits. Your thoughts? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 gotomsdos was simply a good and enthusiastic guy from a culture unfamiliar to many of us who was chased off this forum by bigots. It was the low point in the history of this forum. Red 333 i was always friendly with GOTO...and enjoyed some of his input..but after a while i did start thinking it was getting a little suspicious if you looked back on his posts..they were all about technical little details..and the gap in the space between neck and sound hole became amusing to say the least his posted photos where always a lil sus to me too..like he got them from someone maybe.. I think a few asked for a specific photo of one of his main technical details..and we never got one then he kept insisting on members posting photos for him..remember? anyway no matter I didn't run him off.. but he sure left with out a whiff of return i aint accusing anyone.. just giving an opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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