Lefty Guy Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 In case all you AJ lovers didn't see this..... http://www.cranesmusicstore.com/gibsonluthierschoiceajbrazillian-p-780.html?currency=GBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Now there's a price tage for ya .... Never played a Brazilian rosewoood AJ (actually only played one Brazilian guitar ever, local luthier build) but I posted the AJ on the AGF (back after my three month sin bin) and one of the regular chaps has a luthiers choice Brazilian AJ and said from the sound samples mine sound very similar to his Brazilian. Given it was 90% cheaper I think I'm happy with what Ive got ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Guy Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 Now there's a price tage for ya .... Never played a Brazilian rosewoood AJ (actually only played one Brazilian guitar ever, local luthier build) but I posted the AJ on the AGF (back after my three month sin bin) and one of the regular chaps has a luthiers choice Brazilian AJ and said from the sound samples mine sound very similar to his Brazilian. Given it was 90% cheaper I think I'm happy with what Ive got ... Mark, I'd love to have a chat to you on the phone about AJs, 'Birds etc given my dilemma. I'll PM you my work number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Mark, I'd love to have a chat to you on the phone about AJs, 'Birds etc given my dilemma. I'll PM you my work number. Sure Lefty, now worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Aj/Braz AJ.... would you gig it? If so nobody and I mean NOBODY will hear the difference.... unplugged, nobody will hear the difference, given it's down to two choices a large part of those right will simply have guessed correctly... emphasis on guess.... This is down to the player and how elite you want the specs to be.... nothing more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Aj/Braz AJ.... would you gig it? If so nobody and I mean NOBODY will hear the difference.... unplugged, nobody will hear the difference, given it's down to two choices a large part of those right will simply have guessed correctly... emphasis on guess.... This is down to the player and how elite you want the specs to be.... nothing more! In other words, buy the Macca Texan instead, since it's a snip at half the price. Note also the finish checking on the headstock of this AJ, indicative of its 10 years in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Aj/Braz AJ.... would you gig it? If so nobody and I mean NOBODY will hear the difference.... unplugged, nobody will hear the difference, given it's down to two choices a large part of those right will simply have guessed correctly... emphasis on guess.... This is down to the player and how elite you want the specs to be.... nothing more! yeah surely the difference in two players, picks ,strings etc . totally outweighs the difference in two examples of rosewood? like by a million times more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 What a joke of a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 12th fret has one at a quarter of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 12th fret has one at a quarter of that All Braz AJs are not created equal -- some are easily worth four times the price of others. There's a fair chance this is one of the great ones, given the S/N. (That particular stash of Braz that Ren scored is legendary.) The one at 12th Fret is unlikely to be anywhere near as good, though you never know until you hear them in person. That said, the price on this one does seem extremely high. That's more pounds than the original list price in dollars. True, they're not making any more, but still ... . -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Bob I see what your saying but in reality 2 of the same guitars made with the same woods how can one justify a 15000 increase in price? Out of curiosity what is it about the serial number that you notice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Here's the one I'm referring to. http://www.12fret.com/content/2012/10/30/gibson-advanced-jumbo-luthiers-choice-2001-consignment/ I'm just curious your thoughts I've seen a couple of these and the prices are all over the map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Bob I see what your saying but in reality 2 of the same guitars made with the same woods how can one justify a 15000 increase in price? Well, it's not like prices have to be justified -- it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay. I can't imagine that guitar would be worth $20K to anyone, but I guess the seller can. He certainly won't get it if he doesn't ask. Out of curiosity what is it about the serial number that you notice? It was built quite late in 2002, which means it was built from the batch of Brazilian that one employee described (in a post to rec.music.guitars.acoustic, IIRC) as "the best we've seen in many years". That's why it seems unlikely that the mid-2001 at 12th Fret is anywhere near as good. No way to tell for sure without playing them, though. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 ... the prices are all over the map That could be partly because the MSRPs varied quite a bit, between about $7800 and $9100. I don't know why, but the best one I've played had the highest MSRP and the worst one had the lowest. Probably a coincidence, but maybe they were trying to charge more for the better ones. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 All Braz AJs are not created equal -- (That particular stash of Braz that Ren scored is legendary.) -- Bob R It was built quite late in 2002, which means it was built from the batch of Brazilian that one employee described (in a post to rec.music.guitars.acoustic, IIRC) as "the best we've seen in many years". -- Bob R This is interesting stuff Rar I was thinking about this whole BR topic, a few members have stated they think it is a sort of myth..and even hype. Personally when folk do talk about " do you think Indian RW is as good as Braz"..or " which do you prefer" it goes over my head. PM states NOBODY would be able to tell the difference.... can this be true? I wouldn't be able to..thats for sure.... but guitarists who would pay these type of prices for specifically BR.. they must think it's worth it. I'm assuming any Gibsons made with this batch of " legendary" wood, will have been worked on by Ren... will they have maybe even been completely built by Ren and Ren alone? seeing as the wood is so valuable. watching clips of luthiers choosing wood for guitars and checking the responsiveness.... you must assume BR to be some of the best wood available. can any member give specifics to exactly what makes this wood so desirable..apart from the ,now ,rarity of it. For instance..will it age better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 There's no doubt it (Braz) looks the part, but I do stand by the claim of 'hearing' it being the most skewed claims.... Anyone can claim to have special ears, loads of people do make such claims, by and large its not supported in any way because it can't really be supported. Even hearing a few rosewood sounds (darker & with some overtones) it's best guess scenario, typically a 50/50 toss-up, when the guess goes wrong they can then say it was the recording that was wrong etc... we've seen it so many times. So if any amplification would skew it, if basic recording techniques can't display it definitively leaving folk to fall into best guess territory... is it actually there? Is it uniform? no... so like all wood, the same parts will make one guitar a little better than they make the next, natural variance from using natural raw materials. All things being equal (mostly availability, subsequently price) would we discuss anything other than it's visual properties in comparisons? I'm not sure to be honest..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I agree in some respects PM,, but, there is surely a reason more than,,cosmetics.. why lutheirs source this particular wood, and hold it in such high regard. My thoughts tend to ponder.... Lets say two guitars are built by the same lutheir... and are as similar to one another as can be built. One is INR and another is BR Will the BR sound BETTER ?..more responsive ? Sweeter ? Maybe a listener could not definatley say which is BR and which is INR.. but they could say which sounded 'Better' no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Maybe a listener could not definatley say which is BR and which is INR.. but they could say which sounded 'Better' no? Of course, Del, any player/user could determine a preference but it would be unqualified. All I'm saying is take aesthetics and availability away, in fact remove any identification so prestige factors are not present and you get a simple A/B of preferences, unqualified of course... a landslide result could then determine that generally people preferred sample A or B. But you could take 2 guitars built with the same materials, by the same luthier put them back to back and many will determine a preference for one over the other. It's a flawed test, the 'special ears' brigade will cry foul and wax on about recordings if they're not proven correct, so we have to accept that sonically any difference if present has to factor in age, condition, etc... ie, all the factors actually qualtifible, what your left with is reasonably standard choices up against elitist choices and many testers hearing with their eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Just because someone has paid a price for an item that is excessive ,does not make the item worth that. The line ..its worth what ever a person is willing to pay for it .. is a generalization applied to a lot of things, but is a statement that is misleading and full of baloney. P.S. The guitar at 12th Fret has a crack in its top..big draw back for a buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherofpearl Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I understand the drawback but financially there's quite a difference there. I dunno maybe What Bob has said in regards to the brw at the end of that year is what drives the price up? Irregardless it isn't for me I was just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Hear the ring of Brazilian at about 2:40. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGvRZe7LJ7k&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Humble down to earth human being..I'd bet you he knows the difference between right and wrong. Something most so called educated people in this country have lost sight of. (Oh yeah... he seems to like Brazilian the best as well.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Hear the ring of Brazilian at about 2:40. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGvRZe7LJ7k&feature=related Enjoyed that clip Dan..thanks. You see many luthiers really extolling the virtues of Braz Rosewood... so you Know... I think I tend to believe em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Enjoyed that clip Dan..thanks. You see many luthiers really extolling the virtues of Braz Rosewood... so you Know... I think I tend to believe em. You see many car salesmen advocating a higher series model and options too, just as guitar shop staff will extoll the benefits of buying a US CNC produced guitar over a mexican CNC produced guitar made by the same company. There's little doubt it's a nice material but if it can't be identified by ear, or it opens you up to comments on a recording because a 'special ear' wasn't able to hear it and it's utterly unlikely any audience will hear it in a modern application for acoustic sounds live then where is it? It's a premium choice made by players for the player as it means nothing to anyone else. Very much one of the diminishing scale of returns I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 To the contrary I get the impression that they arent pushing (Braz)cause they really cant get a hold of it too readily. And they would rather customers order what they know they can get. Out of 4 acoustics that I have, 2 are Braz...they are M U C H better sounding than the two others which are premium Martin & Gibson's in Quartered English Maple & Madagascar. But I dont attribute it to the Braz..though I believe it helps ...but mainly its the difference between small personal workshoppe compared to large mass producion. I tried a 2009-10 Huss & Dalton D with Indian Rosewood that on the back almost looked like plywood..ugly & grainy..and a Bearclaw top. The thing sounded incredible.At least as nice as the Braz/Adi one I have now. As I said before, Gibson should insert another step in the production with some dudes that take the time to voice the tops individually..like you see this guy doing in this video..not just follow a set build spec ,to make sure everything they put out there is worthy of the name. Let 6 office/paper pusher types go..get the rest of them out of those stuffy suits and get em to boogie and make up the work : ) Walla..now lets hire some 3-4 luthiers..put em in a room with a sign on the door that say's Feck Off/Diplomat..and no matter what smells or sounds come out of there, they are not to be tamperd with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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