ChanMan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Dave... Radioactive Zombie thread won't die (Thanks Riffster!) and All the Jimi Hendrix album chat is so not on topic, your thread has been taken over and derailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 We'll it's all sort of related... Hendrix was the bridge of feeling and speed. Then came shred, it's evolution... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 We'll it's all sort of related... Hendrix was the bridge of feeling and speed. Then came shred, it's evolution... What?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Sorry. Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Sorry. Apologies. 3rd Rule of Chan: "Any thread left untended will find it's own course". No harm as long as Dave is cool with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 3rd Rule of Chan: "Any thread left untended will find it's own course". No harm as long as Dave is cool with it! Mind you I am no expert in anything related to this thread. It's all my in my own humble opinion... Most are far better guitar plays on this forum than I am and they all have valid views on the subject. It seems the general consensus is that feeling is more important than speed but you can manifest feeling in slow melodic phrases as well as lighting fast phrases and if you can do both you have an infinite pallet to use while expressing yourself. And that's a good thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Mind you I am no expert in anything related to this thread. It's all my in my own humble opinion... Most are far better guitar plays on this forum than I am and they all have valid views on the subject. It seems the general consensus is that feeling is more important than speed but you can manifest feeling in slow melodic phrases as well as lighting fast phrases and if you can do both you have an infinite pallet to use while expressing yourself. And that's a good thing... Nailed it. For the record, sir, I am 51 years old and have played guitar since I was in 5th grade. I started developing what speed I have about 6 years ago..... It'll come. Patience, young Skywalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Just sayin'... Just sayin'.... Anyone who has a certain "style" and soul to have a dining room like this, and the thought to put a guitar like this in it.... If this style is to be harnessed and translated into music, there is no expressiveness or style where "speed" is used that's gonna top this. This will blow away speed every time, my man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 uh.... wtf? ^^^^ Oh, and GORGEOUS axe! I AM jelly, bro :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 A couple of thoughts, then to work... 1. When I've played some awfully quick stuff fingerpicking, a "shred" younger fan figures I'm playing slowly although I'll wager I have close to double the notes as a shredder. A lot is "style." 2. Take this away from "rock." Even "jazz." Consider classical guitar where the best pickers have incredible speed and yet emotion even playing what amounts to "off the map." Segovia's version of Bach's Chaconne, for example. But it doesn't _sound_ "fast" until you start to figure how many notes are coming in there. Speed is worthless without feeling, feeling can't reach certain peaks of expression without a degree of speed regardless of the musical style. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Temperature is worthless without Flavor, Flavor can't reach certain peaks of expression without a degree of Temperature regardless of the culinary style. m Oddly, still accurate in some cases. You DO have to heat certain ingredients to get the peak flavor.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j0qLksgXDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 The irony of it all is that when Dave was pondering between feel or speed it was Jimmy Page he had in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 The irony of it all is that when Dave was pondering between feel or speed it was Jimmy Page he had in mind. Fast is relative... Ok I started playing guitar at 52 years old, I'm 57 now... So yeah Jimmy Page for me is fast. If I had started playing at 12 years old I'm sure I'd consider Jimmy page as turtle speed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I can, and will, only speak, for myself...."Feeling" is #1, speed is the culmination, of good techical skill, that's repeatable enough, to forget, and do naturally...IMHO. Both, are Ideal! But, I've had far more "emotional" responses, to players who use 1 or 2 notes, in the right place, and the right duration, than I've ever experienced,with those who use blizzards of notes, just for speed's sake. The same (for me) holds true, with sax, or trumpet players. I'm not a "fast" "shedder" type player, at all! Never have been. I admire that kind of technique, and ability, but...I didn't grow up, on it, really. And, now...my fingers are too old, and stiff, to do any "shredding" much, these days. So, IF you can "Shred," Great! If you can do that, with true "feeling"...even better. But, I don't rate guitarists, on how fast they play, but how "tasteful," they are, more than anything. But, again, that's just Me! Cheers, CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 uh.... wtf? ^^^^ Oh, and GORGEOUS axe! I AM jelly, bro :) From another thread of his, we know this is his guitar, and it is pictured in his dining room. Notice the reflection on the table, and the guitar. We all know what a work of art a "Black Beauty" is, but this man has a dining room that seems to me, the same class and style. In essense, a "Black Beauty" dining room. That's where this man eats. I'm saying Dave has a certain style and class, and lots of it. Therefore, to me, the interesting question isn't how fast or how to play fast, the question is how to get this level or 'cool and sophistication' that is withing Dave into a note or phrase, or music. It if comes out as slow as molasis, then so be it. I'd wanna hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Fast is relative... Ok I started playing guitar at 52 years old, I'm 57 now... So yeah Jimmy Page for me is fast. If I had started playing at 12 years old I'm sure I'd consider Jimmy page as turtle speed... Speed is only important within context, Dave. The lead to Stariway to heaven might suck if played at Herman Li speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 From another thread of his, we know this is his guitar, and it is pictured in his dining room. Notice the reflection on the table, and the guitar. We all know what a work of art a "Black Beauty" is, but this man has a dining room that seems to me, the same class and style. In essense, a "Black Beauty" dining room. That's where this man eats. I'm saying Dave has a certain style and class, and lots of it. Therefore, to me, the interesting question isn't how fast or how to play fast, the question is how to get this level or 'cool and sophistication' that is withing Dave into a note or phrase, or music. It if comes out as slow as molasis, then so be it. I'd wanna hear it. Can I get a Hell Yeah?!? I admire Dave's style too. Well put sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Fast is relative... Ok I started playing guitar at 52 years old, I'm 57 now... So yeah Jimmy Page for me is fast. If I had started playing at 12 years old I'm sure I'd consider Jimmy page as turtle speed... I hear you Dave, but in this forum when you say speed or fast, the vast majority immediately thinks "shredders", to everybody else here speed is not relative, speed=shredding and shredding must be bashed despite of the fact that most here do not actually "get" or even listen to that genre. I am with you, I started playing 6 years ago and right after I did I had disc replacement surgery on my neck, the nerve damage I have affect my left shoulder all the way to my left hand, I have an incredibly stiff hand but I do not let it get in the way, I do not play fast or have consistent touch because nerves cannot be cured, they heal on their own terms. My favorite music genre is Heavy, Speed and Thrash Metal and unfortunately I cannot play that stuff except for the easy stuff. Still, I enjoy playing what I can play. You do get "faster and accurate" (withing your own terms) the more you play. Also remember that "speed" is not all about the fretting hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 For what it's worth, my head is "what would you do on piano with or without vocals; what speed does one's vocal change notes to get a message across?" I find the dual tempo type of thing might make an example. Fats Waller could play fast; he could play slowly. He could sing relatively quickly or slowly... But even when he played fast... it didn't necessarily strike you as fast. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Just out of interest - Dave do you have a backing program like Band in a Box or similar that you practice with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveinspain Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 Just out of interest - Dave do you have a backing program like Band in a Box or similar that you practice with? I have DigiTech RP 90 that has some pretty realistic drum sounds in it and some good drum patterns. I use that as a metronome. I find a good beat and I can speed it up or slow it down as much as I want. I also play along with the recorded version of the tunes we cover in my band... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 My intent in posting Emily Remler was to emphasize how, not just in jazz, but in most rock and blues, notes are played that swing. This, and as m implies, the best riffs on any instrument seem to be played imitating a certain vocal quality. I think a lot of us, esp. us older players, tend to need to hear that, and we get lost in shredding because it loses its vocal quality and the quality to swing... maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Ziggy ... I think that's an excellent point about vocal quality... There's something almost machine-like about a fast Bach fugue, for example - machines available even in Bach's time. One comparing it to the "feeling" of Beethoven's Moonlight... Actually I love this one, but... is it much more than an incredibly well-written exercise in virtuosity? m http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP2o4rBdX-s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Back when I was learning scales, my instructor suggested that I swing each note. The faster I play a scale, the less I'm able to swing each note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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