What's more important, feeling or speed?

[chewy60]

for me, feeling is a groove thing. it can be real fast or slow. if it gets people to move, i'm all for it.....

[ShredAstaire]

^ I like this guy!!!

[kaleb]

I find it extremely ironic that the "speed gestapos" out there will laud Les Paul or any classical player all day long but will cut down Yngwie and Paul Gilbert despite the fact that their "shredding" stems from that and is really the same stuff only 100x louder and with distortion!

 

All great guitar players have feeling no matter how fast or slow they play. There's a **** ton of slow players without feeling.

 

I still think that some shredders that have had their time in the spotlight have no feeling. Vinnie Vincent (I just don't get what he does. It's just not musical to me. But he's a great songwriter and he played some decent lead breaks on KISS's Creatures Of The Night and Lick It Up albums), and Mark St. John. But I don't particularly like the idea of practicing restraint, either. I like guys that just rip away (Alvin Lee!)!

 

Sometimes I think that some players can get a little redundant, like Zakk Wylde, even though I love his licks. He's just a little redundant at times (mostly post-Book Of Shadows. His picking has become somewhat sloppy in the last 12-13 years, too, IMHO). Some of his pentatonic runs (usually with the wah on...) are the musical equivalent of Paul Stanley's stage banter. But Zakk has feeling, and when he's on, he's on.

 

But I think melody is most important.

[Cú Chulainn]

I find it extremely ironic that the "speed gestapos" out there will laud Les Paul or any classical player all day long but will cut down Yngwie and Paul Gilbert despite the fact that their "shredding" stems from that and is really the same stuff only 100x louder and with distortion!

 

In my neck of the woods, we call these people hypocrites!

 

All great guitar players have feeling no matter how fast or slow they play. There's a **** ton of slow players without feeling.

 

Amen to that!

although, said "speed gestapos" rarely look beyond the reach of their own nose

[kaleb]

In my neck of the woods, we call these people hypocrites!

 

 

 

Amen to that!

although, said "speed gestapos" rarely look beyond the reach of their own nose

 

Well, just like any gestapo....

[FirstMeasure]

Speed is a nice tool to have in you bag of tricks, and it's one of the most difficult skills to execute smoothly. It's only natural that someone who has accomplished that skill would overuse it because it's so fun once you can do it.

 

On the other hand it's only natural that those who have not or cannot accomplish such a difficult skill would cast the "sour grapes" aspersions on those that have accomplished it. That way they don't have to say, "I can't do that", they can say "I choose not to lessen myself with such soul stealing absurdities".

 

It's just a skill, a very useful and gratifying skill. The more skills you have the more you can express your feelings.

[Sgt.]

Wait a minute...

Between this one, and the "mediocre Gibson" thread I sense a conspiracy to post deliberately vague question that spawn unwinnable discussions!

 

keeps the forum alive anyways

 

yeah asking 'what's more important' is more about being what is practical. if i had a choice would i play with feeling or with speed? playing favourites. the answer is that a techinically competent player will master both skills and apply them to the particular piece of music. you may tend to play a lot of music that has feeling or a lot of music that involves speed. i think speed is attainable with the right approach.

we can all imagine another student recital that lacks both feeling and speed ... reference the squeaky violin!

[bonzoboy]

Jimi Hendrix has always been seen as a blindingly fast guitarist at times however when he really got into it he could play some of the most soulful blues ever heard.I have a rare import album from Ember Records in London that covers the entirety of the concert the Experience did at The Royal Albert Hall on Feb. 18,1969.On this album he does a version of Bleeding Heart that would bring out goosebumps on a statue.He plays the slowest and most soulful blues that I have ever heard,it just reaches out and grabs you.I have played this cut for people without saying who and where it is and although most can recognize Jimi inimitable playing they are without exception floored by his incredible playing on that particular track.

[daveinspain]

I would like to hear that...

[stein]

I think it's mostly like this:

 

I remember when I was young and starting out, around the days when Van Halen and such. For the young player, I would view speed as sort of the "badge" or or "test" of how good a guitarist was. I thought if I could play fast like the other players, that would mean my skill was high. So, I can relate to the belief that "speed" equates to "skill"...and thus, I also learned to play fast. Or rather I should say, I learned to play certain solos like "Eruption" and such before I learned a lot of things. It didn't hurt, but it didn't mean I could play everything else either.

 

I also used to be a huge metal fan when I was young, learning nearly everything Preist and Maiden. I could play it all, in the confines of the bedroom at home along with the record.

 

Playing with a band or other "real" poeple, however, was very different. I make my point here: Playing "fast", or "up to speed" if you prefer, didn't do anything for my abilities. The problems then were timing, execution of riffs and chords, and listening and reacting to others. How fast I could play really didn't help. How fast I could make my fingers go or how many notes I could make didn't help...didn't matter.

 

One thing I have learned, is that when I have learned to play something well, when it's "in me", I can play it really as fast as I want. But it doesn't matter. I notice others also are much the same. That is, if they know a tune or a riff or whatever really well, they COULD play it fast if asked. "SPEED" comes natural with practice, but it isn't important when actually playing. And how fast someone can or can't play something has literally no effect on how well they can "execute" the same riff or song when played in real terms.

 

My opinion, is "speed" is not something to try and attain or practice for. Praticing all the other elements of how to play what you want "properly" in order to do them live or with others will result in being able to play "faster" than you need, but playing something or practicing fast will not do the opposite.

 

As an aside, I got a late start as well. I always played sinse young, but I didn't play live or with bands often until much later. When I did, it was mostly blues and blues/rock, or just, "rock". In all that time, I have never noticed more applause from a solo when playing "fast", or have anyone say "he's not fast enough". The elements that flexes the soul plexes are never speed, it's other things.

[pippy]

...I have a rare import album from Ember Records in London that covers the entirety of the concert the Experience did at The Royal Albert Hall on Feb. 18,1969....

Interesting, Bonzo. Is it like one of these ones or another with the whole concert in one package? I'm guessing the latter!

 

These are Ember NR 5057 and Ember NR 5061.

 

 

The first release (left, 1971) has four tracks; 'The Sunshine of Your Love', 'Room Full of Mirrors', 'Bleeding Heart' and, errmmm....'Smashing of Amps'...........

Volume II (1972) has seven; 'Little Ivey'(*), 'Voodoo Chile', 'R F o M' again, 'Fire', 'Purple Haze', 'Wild Thing' and, once more, 'B H'.

 

Although both have 'Bleeding Heart' only volume one has the full version. Vol two has shorter versions of both 'B H' and 'Room Full of Mirrors'.

 

And Yes; 'Bleeding Heart' is sensational. As the man himself says..."Moan for me, Guitar!".......

 

(*) 'Little Ivey' is actually 'Little Wing'

 

P.

[Disembodied Loaf]

I'd say feeling is more important. But dexterity in general is just as important as feeling. Some days I just feel like playing a melodic piece with a lot of feeling. But I realize that it's a great skill to be able to play anything. So I practice scales and excercises. Having speed enables one to focus on feeling.

[kaleb]

Not to sound like a ******, but a natural musician has soul and feeling no matter how fast or slow they play.

 

But, the soul and feeling (not to mention riffs rather than solos) come first. The speed comes later. I'm not the fastest, but I'm naturally getting faster. I never practice scales or anything. I just go for it. When I started out, I wasn't playing exercises and reading tabs, I was playing along to AC/DC If You Want Blood.... I wasn't learning all of the scales, I was learning the riff in "Hell Ain't a Bad Place to Be". I wasn't trying to be technically perfect, either, the groove and attitude of it was more important. When I was young I felt the rhythm. I played rhythms on an out of tune guitar long before I ever learned a chord or even how to tune it. I didn't know what key "Cold Gin" was in, but I knew that groove. I heard melodies. I didn't know squat about how to sing in key, but I knew the melody to "Strutter". I loved groove and feeling before I heard Joe Satriani at all. I could groove to "Good Times Bad Times". I knew Peter Criss's drum solo in "100,000 Years" by heart despite that I couldn't really play it all that well on the drums at the time. Because I felt it. And that, my friends, is what's important.

 

Groove and melody, man. Steve Vai and Yngwie play a lot faster than me and are trained and stuff, but they would agree with what I just stated. Vai started out playing along to Zeppelin II. Yngwie (as we all know) was big on Deep Purple. That's how it starts for any natural musician.

[pippy]

OK, I know. It's been posted before.

 

But for Goodness' Sakes, Please watch and listen to this clip.

 

It's original purpose in life was to demonstrate how good Dr Z stuff is.

The guy is really, and I do mean really, just Noodling. But by crikey, the playing - in terms of speed and feeling - is absolutely unbelievable (IMHO).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxqXyWbwUHk

 

P.

[EllenGtrGrl]

This is sort of a tough one for me. While playing technically well (which includes playing fast decently, as one of its attributes) is good, all too often, there are players who shred to excess, to the point, where it does nothing for the song, and just becomes an ego trip to show how well you can play. This IMO, is why so many shredders play boring songs - they end up sounding like nothing more than clinics for their guitar playing prowess. I've said for well over 20 years, that playing for the song is what rules, not playing for your ego. Shred when the song calls for it, not when it doesn't.

 

But, I also feel compelled to say, that all too often, too many players (and non-players for that matter) seem to feel, that in order to play with feeling, you need to do umpteen million bluesey sounding bends. After all, it works for BB King, so why shouldn't it work these players? The only problem, is that it's been overdone (sort of like two handed tapping was overdone in the 80s), to the point, where all too often it sounds cliched, or it sounds like it's being used as a crutch to cover up for a lack of chops (as in "I can't play this lick or riff I hear in my head, so I'll fall back on bending out some bluesy sounding note that I hold for several measures"). IMO, playing with feeling involves a lot more than bluesey sounding bends.

 

YMMV,

Ellen

[ChanMan]

Which is more important... flavor or temperature when cooking?

 

A lot easier now, huh? Some dishes are good cold, some are good hot, but any dish that tastes like a s s tastes like a s s.

 

 

 

Simple, and no amount of assclowning or d o u c h e baggery will change that.

[AXE®]

Dear Chan.

 

Hold me.

 

Love AXE.

[Riffster]

Which is more important... flavor or temperature when cooking?

 

A lot easier now, huh? Some dishes are good cold, some are good hot, but any dish that tastes like a s s tastes like a s s.

 

 

 

Simple, and no amount of assclowning or d o u c h e baggery will change that.

 

You would think this post is a shot to the head to this zombie thread...but this is a radioactive zombie thread.

[bonzoboy]

Hi Pippy,it's the one on the left,I should've known that someone from Britain would have a copy of it.That version of Bleeding Heart is the absolute epitome of blues playing in my book.I haven't seen or heard that version on any other disc,I'm surprised that Janie hendrix hasn't gotten her grimey mitts on that and rereleased it.

[Tman]

Hi Pippy,it's the one on the left,I should've known that someone from Britain would have a copy of it.That version of Bleeding Heart is the absolute epitome of blues playing in my book.I haven't seen or heard that version on any other disc,I'm surprised that Janie hendrix hasn't gotten her grimey mitts on that and rereleased it.

 

Pippy is the resident encyclopedia of all things music related - and I say that in admiration.

[RaysEpiphone]

I'd say nether are most important, when it come's to perfection accuracy would be first. Being able to feel the music is more like natural gift of rhythm and timing. Speed is just speed.

[pippy]

Pippy is the resident encyclopedia of all things music related - and I say that in admiration.

 

Nah. I just had an unhealthy mania about collecting obscure Hendrix albums starting around about the mid to late '70s (and found some VERY strange stuff !).

 

On which note......

 

...I haven't seen or heard that version on any other disc...

I have a double album released by the mighty CBS label in 1982 called "The Jimi Hendrix Concerts - A collection of his most exciting performances" which features it.

One odd thing is it is credited to a concert in the Royal Albert Hall on the 24 Feb 1969 (?) but it is certainly the same performance as in the 'Experience' recordings.

 

If anyone fancies tracking down a copy (I suspect there were more of these pressed than the Ember discs discussed earlier) it is on CBS 88592.

 

P.

[jdgm]

I just had an unhealthy mania about collecting obscure Hendrix albums starting around about the mid to late '70s (and found some VERY strange stuff !).P.

Yes me too - perhaps we might compare Hendrix bootlegs sometime. I have a very bad quality 2/CD bootleg of the Albert Hall (I think there were 2 concerts) and versions of it can be found on Amazon, buyer beware:

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=Hendrix+Albert+Hall

 

I stopped collecting Hendrix in the late 80s as by then they were beginning to recycle the recycled out-takes.....e.g.'Voodoo Soup'....b.s.! I never bought any of the dodgy M Jeffrey estate albums ('Purple Haze Records' etc) either. The Hendrix Experience made 3 studio albums. If you look on Amazon they have 377 Hendrix titles on offer.

 

And the thing with speed is that to get there you have to practice an awful lot and then an awful lot more. Some people used to say Al DiMeola had no feeling as his playing was so fast (for the 70s) and immaculately executed, because it was all very practiced. But once you've got to that point - if you're that good at it - there is no reason why you couldn't put mucho feeling into it.

Regards!

[ChanMan]

 

aaaaaaand.....

 

[daveinspain]

 

aaaaaaand.....

 

 

What does this mean???