Chibson's...

[Pinch]

Yep his "LP" that he is associated with was built by Derring. Its not a Chinese Fake. It is a fake, just not a Chinese one.

 

Why drink Bud when the Lagunita's tap is right next to it?

 

The "Appetite" Les Paul copy's legendary status is overrated. Yes, it's a brilliant album,and Slash and Izzy both perform amazingly well for a couple of kids on heroin and alcohol (which, I understand, is not a good mix if you want to live). But if you compare the "Slash tone" - and I believe there is one - with the tone he got out of the many and very expensive Gibsons used on the "Illusion" albums.. There's no contest.

 

I believe the reason people equate them is that Slash had and has a comparatively unique "voice". Even with hindsight - I mean, if you were rooted in blues rock, who were your contemporaries in the late 80s L.A. scene? Not much Stones in Poison...

.

[Drog]

I can see two good uses for these...

 

1) If you own a bar or have a man cave that needs a guitar theme over the bar, or to hang on walls , or make into tables , etc , for that look.

 

2) You play in a Who tribute band and at the end of the night smash a Les Paul ( sure would be cheaper than a real one, lol).

[Pin]

Slash's guitar was not a chibson.. It was made by a very well respected US luthier. Chris Derrig I think.

 

I think you are missing my point Rabs: Slash's guitar is a fake - it had (still has) "Gibson" on the headstock just like the Chibson's do. Yes, might be a million times better made but not the point.

[Pinch]

Pin: are you sure? Slash didn't speak much until they recorded the "Illusion" albums and his alcoholism had gotten to the point where it even made a recluse like him talkative, but I remember him saying, or maybe I saw a pic in Hit Parader circa '88, that there was no Gibson logo on that headstock.

 

The videos were, I think, another matter.

 

I could be wrong.

[Pinch]

(We had a supermarket here in Sweden that stocked Hit Parader back then. I particularly remember one issue that carried an ad selling pin-up posters in the back, and a poster of Lita Ford. The photo of Lita was taken from above was taken from above, and she was wearing a bra rather than the usual "on-stage top" she was known for.

 

Good times.)

[Pinch]

Yeah, I'm definitely not insinuating any ethical questions here. If the thing is a copy and the cost is right, then WTH... I'd buy it if it said "Illegal F'n Imitator - throw me in jail" on the headstock and it played like a champ - and oh, costs a couple hundred dollars. That's a deal. I couldn't care less on the matter who steals what, blah blah. I don't have energy for this. My point is these guitars are crap, cost more than what they are worth if they are to be players - like I am and would think of using them as such instead of a decoration - and the only attractive quality to these for players is the fact that they say Gibson on it and have a finish on them typically. I see these as a loss and I could find a much better guitar for the cost of upgrades or something slightly more expensive than Chibson+upgrades. Bottom line, I was saying all of this to somewhat persuade that these guitars are not worth the money - cheap champagne as it was termed. Don't have time for it myself. I am not worried about the whole getting duped on a fake business. I share no opinion on these individuals who sell or buy them here. I don't buy internet guitars online for the most part - and when I did a couple purchases, I purchased from stores with return policies to give me time to evaluate with full refund minus shipping. I will never buy a fake guitar unknowingly - at least not a Gibson... If you are spending thousands on something and doing it online, get some smarts and do some research instead of throwing your money away to a "trustworthy" source. You don't walk into car dealership and not have an idea what you're looking at - i.e. some research was done prior to the visit... Those people are suckers, and there's one born every minute or even sooner these days... Can't stop that from happening.

 

I guess, my opinion was shared - I find these uneconomical to turn into quality player guitars, my ONLY gripe with these guitars. I don't care who plays them, who buys them, etc. I simply think it sucks because I wanted one at one time, but learned that they are a headache waiting to happen because they are dirt cheap manufactured with questionable quality every time you get one. It's also a gamble and takes a long time to receive (in the US) something that may be nothing like you wanted... Screw counterfeit, scammers, etc. I do not care about these issues at all. As a matter of fact, I don't care about those who waste their money on these. I gave my persuasive points why not to buy these. It may provide someone with an education what to expect that hasn't seen as many Chibson videos and read as much as I have online. If I have stated anything false, please correct me. I would hate to share false knowledge.

 

Seeing as I have no idea who makes the Chibsons that end up in the US or over here in Europe, I... have no idea. I don't know who makes them. There are probably lots of places in China that make them.

 

You opened up the proverbial can of worms, akin to "can an Epiphone sound as good as a Gibson?" ;)

 

Wish SG Player was still here...

[Pinch]

One thing that could pose a problem from my vantage point though, is kids thinking they've bought a Gibson, and then it's a POS. And then they drop it altogether.

 

Then again, as much as I hate "kids today" - I believe it's my AFFIRMED God-given right after I turned 40 - it's possible that they're more savvy than I think.

[Pin]

Pin: are you sure? Slash didn't speak much until they recorded the "Illusion" albums and his alcoholism had gotten to the point where it even made a recluse like him talkative, but I remember him saying, or maybe I saw a pic in Hit Parader circa '88, that there was no Gibson logo on that headstock.

 

The videos were, I think, another matter.

 

I could be wrong.

 

Well, Pinch I could be wrong too but my understanding is that Slash's "original" '59 was indeed built as a fake "Gibson". Where he is photographed wearing it the headstock is always out of the picture.

[Rabs]

Well, Pinch I could be wrong too but my understanding is that Slash's "original" '59 was indeed built as a fake "Gibson". Where he is photographed wearing it the headstock is always out of the picture.

Well the oddest thing about that guitar is that Gibson now make official versions of it.. A real Gibson based on a replica based on a 59...

 

Id say its a pretty unique guitar in that sense so cant really be put in the same ball park as a crappy Chinese fake.. real or not.

[Allenjason95]

Yeah, I'm definitely not insinuating any ethical questions here. If the thing is a copy and the cost is right, then WTH... I'd buy it if it said "Illegal F'n Imitator - throw me in jail" on the headstock and it played like a champ - and oh, costs a couple hundred dollars. That's a deal. I couldn't care less on the matter who steals what, blah blah. I don't have energy for this. My point is these guitars are crap, cost more than what they are worth if they are to be players - like I am and would think of using them as such instead of a decoration - and the only attractive quality to these for players is the fact that they say Gibson on it and have a finish on them typically. I see these as a loss and I could find a much better guitar for the cost of upgrades or something slightly more expensive than Chibson+upgrades. Bottom line, I was saying all of this to somewhat persuade that these guitars are not worth the money - cheap champagne as it was termed. Don't have time for it myself. I am not worried about the whole getting duped on a fake business. I share no opinion on these individuals who sell or buy them here. I don't buy internet guitars online for the most part - and when I did a couple purchases, I purchased from stores with return policies to give me time to evaluate with full refund minus shipping. I will never buy a fake guitar unknowingly - at least not a Gibson... If you are spending thousands on something and doing it online, get some smarts and do some research instead of throwing your money away to a "trustworthy" source. You don't walk into car dealership and not have an idea what you're looking at - i.e. some research was done prior to the visit... Those people are suckers, and there's one born every minute or even sooner these days... Can't stop that from happening.

 

I guess, my opinion was shared - I find these uneconomical to turn into quality player guitars, my ONLY gripe with these guitars. I don't care who plays them, who buys them, etc. I simply think it sucks because I wanted one at one time, but learned that they are a headache waiting to happen because they are dirt cheap manufactured with questionable quality every time you get one. It's also a gamble and takes a long time to receive (in the US) something that may be nothing like you wanted... Screw counterfeit, scammers, etc. I do not care about these issues at all. As a matter of fact, I don't care about those who waste their money on these. I gave my persuasive points why not to buy these. It may provide someone with an education what to expect that hasn't seen as many Chibson videos and read as much as I have online. If I have stated anything false, please correct me. I would hate to share false knowledge.

 

Saying you don’t care about counterfeits or fakes or what it says on the headstock means you don’t care about people being screwed over. That’s just wrong.

 

The reason these say “Gibson” on the headstock is to make people think they’re real Gibsons. It’s as simple as that. Maybe not the original purchaser but the audience or some poor guy down the line who buys it believing it’s a real Gibson.

 

Counterfeit guitars are a huge problem (as we all know) and Chibsons are a huge part of that problem. It’s fraud, pure and simple. You can say “people should know better” or “they should do more research before they buy” but not everyone is a guitar expert and some Chibsons are authentic looking at first glance.

 

What if a wife or girlfriend wanted to buy a LP for a gift and bought one of these fake POS? What if a kid buying his first guitar bought one thinking it was real?

 

It’s fraud pure and simple and it’s wrong.

[Pin]

 

Id say its a pretty unique guitar in that sense so cant really be put in the same ball park as a crappy Chinese fake.. real or not.

 

I said and would say the same thing Rabs (re-read my first post).

[Rabs]

I said and would say the same thing Rabs (re-read my first post).

Well I just think that's the difference between a replica and a fake... A replica is something where someone has worked hard and put skill in to replicating an object as close as they can and probably worth the money.. A fake is just a crap copy with no skill involved....

 

To me the only issue is if someone tries to sell a fake as a real Gibson.. That is obviously an issue. The fakes are getting more accurate and can be hard for some people to tell the difference.

[Pin]

Well I just think that's the difference between a replica and a fake... A replica is something where someone has worked hard and put skill in to replicating an object as close as they can and probably worth the money.. A fake is just a crap copy with no skill involved....

 

To me the only issue is if someone tries to sell a fake as a real Gibson.. That is obviously an issue. The fakes are getting more accurate and can be hard for some people to tell the difference.

 

I understand the point you are making but the issue for me is when someone puts a logo on the headstock which they aren't entitled to use. Yes, if it is made by a genuine craftsman who has followed the lines to a T it is then a "replica" in the truest sense of the word but it is also fake at the same time.

[Allenjason95]

I understand the point you are making but the issue for me is when someone puts a logo on the headstock which they aren't entitled to use. Yes, if it is made by a genuine craftsman who has followed the lines to a T it is then a "replica" in the truest sense of the word but it is also fake at the same time.

 

Yep, still a fake but it’s not made to with the same intent. I don’t know much about Slash’s AFD guitar but if it was a well made copy by a reputable luthier it probably cost at least as much as a real one and was done because whoever made it loved LP or thought they could make a better LP than Gibson. I’m still against any guitar that’s not a Gibson saying “Gibson” on the headstock but a high end replica is not in the same pallbark as a Chibson.

 

Chibsons hurt Gibson, Gibson employees, people who buy them thinking they’re Gibson’s etc. the people making them are just trying to make a buck.

 

I really don’t get it. Even if you just wanted a cheap LP there are a million used Epiphone LP out there for 200-300 bucks. Why take a chance on some POS Chinese knockoff that’s made by criminals when you can buy a legit Epiphone that’s probably better anyway?

 

I just don’t get it.

[Pin]

Chibsons hurt Gibson, Gibson employees, people who buy them thinking they’re Gibson’s etc. the people making them are just trying to make a buck.

 

I really don’t get it. Even if you just wanted a cheap LP there are a million used Epiphone LP out there for 200-300 bucks. Why take a chance on some POS Chinese knockoff that’s made by criminals when you can buy a legit Epiphone that’s probably better anyway?

 

I just don’t get it.

 

It is true that people buying a "Gibson" (Chibson) off Ebay who think it is a real Gibson are hurting Gibson and damaging themselves into the bargain. However, some people deliberately order Chibson's direct from China knowing full well that they are Chibson's. Why?

 

I suspect it is as people on here have said - they're getting better and better and resembling more and more the replica standard that we are talking about above with Slash's guitar. Yes, it is true that they might still be a long way behind but the gap is gradually closing and a Chibson buyer is taking a gamble that he / she can "fettle" the guitar enough to satisfy. Many (indeed most)I am sure come unstuck but I think that is the attraction.

[Allenjason95]

It is true that people buying a "Gibson" (Chibson) off Ebay who think it is a real Gibson are hurting Gibson and damaging themselves into the bargain. However, some people deliberately order Chibson's direct from China knowing full well that they are Chibson's. Why?

 

I suspect it is as people on here have said - they're getting better and better and resembling more and more the replica standard that we are talking about above with Slash's guitar. Yes, it is true that they might still be a long way behind but the gap is gradually closing and a Chibson buyer is taking a gamble that he / she can "fettle" the guitar enough to satisfy. Many (indeed most)I am sure come unstuck but I think that is the attraction.

 

Yeah....but again...why buy an illegal knockoff from sketchy people in another country, a knockoff that likely will need new pickups, electronics etc.....instead of just buying an Epiphone LP?

 

The Chibsons (legality and ethics aside) aren’t any cheaper than a used Epiphone LP and with the Epiphone you know what you’re getting and that it’s high quality.

 

I just don’t get why anyone would spend $200-300 on a Chibson, then more to upgrade it, when you can go to any Craigslist or GC or to Ebay and get a used Epiphone. What’s the point other than to fool some people into thinking you own a Gibson?

[Pin]

What’s the point other than to fool some people into thinking you own a Gibson?

 

You have answered your own question.

[Allenjason95]

You have answered your own question.

 

Then why all that stuff about “the quality getting better....people are willing to take the risk etc etc etc”?

[Tman]

Just went to the land of Chibson. Didn't see a single one. Didn't even see Rolex's or Louis Vuitton bags. Maybe some visiting Yanks had lifted them?

[Pin]

Then why all that stuff about “the quality getting better....people are willing to take the risk etc etc etc”?

 

I'm sorry old mate but I don't understand the contradiction or tension between the two ideas. If you are "in the market" because you desperately want a Gibson but can't afford one and the idea of a Chibson presents itself to you, then if you discover that "the quality getting better" are you not even more likely to "take the risk"?

 

I can understand the rationale for people buying Chibson's. I think they are in error and will likely buy a lemon or something if not a lemon would still be inferior to a decent Epiphone but at least (if they get the thing playable) they can wave their axe in front of the audience (or look in the mirror) and show off their illegitimate headstock.

[Allenjason95]

Just went to the land of Chibson. Didn't see a single one. Didn't even see Rolex's or Louis Vuitton bags. Maybe some visiting Yanks had lifted them?

 

China's kind of a big place I hear.

[rct]

Saying you don’t care about counterfeits or fakes or what it says on the headstock means you don’t care about people being screwed over. That’s just wrong.

 

I'm a guy that doesn't care. I don't care what people buy, I don't care what people sell from where, and I know how to buy real guitars. If it was really that bad the companies that are illegally copied would do something about it, because they can. The only people concerned with fake guitars on a given day are usually posting here or one or two other guitar forums, so that's not many people. There's a lot of people getting scammed, counterfeited, faked. Do you put on your cape and swing into action for each and every one of them because you care about people?

 

People do what they want, if they want to tell themselves and their three bros they just scored a Les Paul for 3 hundred dollars what do I care?

 

rct

[Allenjason95]

I'm a guy that doesn't care. I don't care what people buy, I don't care what people sell from where, and I know how to buy real guitars. If it was really that bad the companies that are illegally copied would do something about it, because they can. The only people concerned with fake guitars on a given day are usually posting here or one or two other guitar forums, so that's not many people. There's a lot of people getting scammed, counterfeited, faked. Do you put on your cape and swing into action for each and every one of them because you care about people?

 

People do what they want, if they want to tell themselves and their three bros they just scored a Les Paul for 3 hundred dollars what do I care?

 

rct

 

Trying to start an argument with me? I'm shocked. It's almost like you still have a grudge or something.

 

I know being against fraud is a controversial issue.

 

In the future I'll try to be as carefree as you and not care about fraud. Sorry.

[rct]

Trying to start an argument with me? I'm shocked. It's almost like you still have a grudge or something.

 

I know being against fraud is a controversial issue.

 

In the future I'll try to be as carefree as you and not care about fraud. Sorry.

 

In the future, try to remember that everyone else has an opinion too, and that voicing their opinions probably has way less to do with starting an argument with you than you might like to think.

 

rct

[Allenjason95]

In the future, try to remember that everyone else has an opinion too, and that voicing their opinions probably has way less to do with starting an argument with you than you might like to think.

 

rct

 

Totally. Sorry. I'm sure your personal grudge with me has nothing to do with your hostile snarky tone.

 

For what it's worth I think it's awesome how you don't care about fraud. Really made me rethink my own position on fraud.