jaxson50 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GANcYrpaZA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 That's a treat I'll come back to a few times, Jax. Thanks for posting. Oddly enough one of the first jazz albums I bought was Herb Ellis & Joe Pass - 'Two for the Road'. I still listen to it. Two of the all-time greats just playing off each other. Genius. 40 years on I still discover new things in their playing on that record. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Hello! Thanks for posting! I am not a big fan of jazz, but I love the tones jazz players get out from their instruments. Herb Ellis is among the bests from this aspect, and I really enjoyed Barney Kessel`s tone (starting at 18 minutes) - with Charlie Christian pickups in His guitar! Those mellow, round tones are really pleasing my ears. That's what I am trying to get out from my LPs, with more or less success... Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 You know most of the old jazz guys were from NY, or LA, or Chicago. Herb Ellis was from Texas, and worked for many years in the twang business, he was a member of the Wrecking Crew for years too, Jazz was his night job, what he did when he was off the clock. It shows through in his solos at time. I love the Van Epps string mutter he uses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveg Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Bence, Jim Hall used a Les Paul Custom for a while when he was with Chico Hamilton. DG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 And... I'm not sure what you'd call a lot of Les Paul's straightforward pickin' except broadly speaking, "jazz." m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 ....one of the first jazz albums I bought was Herb Ellis & Joe Pass - 'Two for the Road'. P. Yeah, I still have that one. Classic. Great stuff Jax, don't get me started. Oh alright then....excuse me.... Jazz - really good jazz seems to the listener as if it is being improvised in the moment, and while this is true it belies the thousands of hours of practice and preparation that lie behind those moments. And the guitar is polyphonic, with as many solo possiblities as the piano. I've seen film of the bassplayer with Herb before - think he was playing with Jim Hall - anyone know who he is? He must have been 'not in N.Y. or L.A' and got a lot of calls. I saw Herb (excuse me, I mean Mr Ellis) in the Great Guitar Trio which that particular night at the 100 club was Kessel, Ellis and Charlie Byrd; I missed him the night my guitarist friends went to see him at the Bass Clef (London Jazz Club during the 80s) when he took a break and immediately came to sit with them and talk guitar! Wow! But (pace Wes) Joe Pass was the one. I was fortunate enough to see him a few times too, unbelievably he once came to Aldershot (small UK town in Hampshire) on a solo tour in 1979. Probably the best solo concert I've ever seen - he had it all, the knowledge, technique, the drive, swing and musicality, plus that extra something. Rocketman said he was the Mozart of jazz guitar which is apt. He made many stunning albums; the 'Virtuoso' series vols 1-4 on Pablo, "Tudo Bem" with Paulhino Da Costa, duets with Niels Henning Orsted Pedersen, albums with Duke, Ella ("Take Love Easy") and many more. He even did a fusion record, "Whitestone", which of course now sounds the most dated of all the Pass albums I have. I haven't heard the 12-string album referred to in the other thread. There's plenty of Joe on uTube; here's some blurry b&w of him in duo with NHOP on 'Donna Lee'. Woah! Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 For some reason I find jazz guitar incredibly bland and boring. I just can't get into it. I like jazz, but I prefer piano and horns: Monk, Miles, 'Trane, etc. I keep wanting to like guitar jazz. H3ll, I'm a guitar player, right? I should love jazz guitar. But it just doesn't click with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 1370653325[/url]' post='1385118']For some reason I find jazz guitar incredibly bland and boring. I just can't get into it. I like jazz, but I prefer piano and horns: Monk, Miles, 'Trane, etc. I keep wanting to like guitar jazz. H3ll, I'm a guitar player, right? I should love jazz guitar. But it just doesn't click with me. Different strokes bro. Maybe the light use of the picking hand? Jazz, old jazz, to me is better then the jazz fusion stuff that took off in the 70s. Horns, drums and keyboards even xylophones were dominate to guitars in early jazz because of the lack of amplification, so of course guitar took a back seat at the dawn of jazz. To me any jazz work is more technical then other forms of music. If someone were to blend the power of overdriven guitar to jazz, it would maybe seduce you into it's dark world..like Zappa.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 1370653325[/url]' post='1385118']For some reason I find jazz guitar incredibly bland and boring. I just can't get into it. I like jazz, but I prefer piano and horns: Monk, Miles, 'Trane, etc. I keep wanting to like guitar jazz. H3ll, I'm a guitar player, right? I should love jazz guitar. But it just doesn't click with me. [/ Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 To me any jazz work is more technical then other forms of music. If someone were to blend the power of overdriven guitar to jazz, it would maybe seduce you into it's dark world..like Zappa.... I agree. And I am ready and willing to be seduced. I do love Zappa - as well and John McLaughlin in Miles Davis's band - but that's not really jazz guitar is it? I just can't make the leap to stuff like Joe Pass or Herb Ellis. It's not like I find it offensive or not listenable. It's fine, but it just doesn't excite me. And it's not all about overdrive either. I love lots of acoustic music: country, folk, bluegrass. I'd love to love jazz guitar... but so far I just am not feeling it. Bring on the intervention! Convince me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I agree. And I am ready and willing to be seduced. I do love Zappa - as well and John McLaughlin in Miles Davis's band - but that's not really jazz guitar is it? I just can't make the leap to stuff like Joe Pass or Herb Ellis. It's not like I find it offensive or not listenable. It's fine, but it just doesn't excite me. And it's not all about overdrive either. I love lots of acoustic music: country, folk, bluegrass. I'd love to love jazz guitar... but so far I just am not feeling it. Bring on the intervention! Convince me. Try finding some of these; Charlie Christian "Swing To Bop" from "Live at Minton's". That's all you need . Don't bother with the Goodman stuff. Django - the 1953 electric session whch starts with "Blues For Ike" and has "Night And Day", "September Song" and "Brazil". Wes - "Impressions" from 'Smokin' At The Half-Note'. Just that track. Kenny Burrell - 'The Tender Gender' or even the classic 'Midnight Blue' with Stanley Turrentine's blues-drenched sax. Pat Martino - 'East', 'Live', 'Starbright' or 'Joyous Lake' or the more recent 'Stone Blue'. Early Larry Coryell - 'Treat's Style' from his 1st LP, 'Larry Of Arabia' from Chico Hamilton's 'The Dealer', the 2nd LP 'Coryell', or 'Fairyland' or 'Barefoot Boy'. When he's good he's great, when he's bad...beware! There are some awful albums but he really could play the blues. Gabor Szabo - 'Magical Connection' or 'High Contrast', which has the original version of "Breezin'" on it. This guy influenced Santana in his use of feedback. Quietly, deceptively incredible. Sounds MOR but isn't. Cal Collins - "Route 66" from 'By Myself'. Solo acoustic on Benedetto Cremona F-hole. Completely floors me every time. I know exactly what you mean; the plummy, dry tone can be off-putting and what they're playing is hard to relate to as it seems to have no drive or nuts at first listen. The above titles are some which helped me to get into it and at least a few of them should be easily found on uTube, though just listening to the audio is IMO better. I went all through the screaming fusion phase as well, I still have all the records, a lot of which don't sound so good to me these days. Somewhere out there is the track which will make you say "ok now I get it". And I submit that Mclaughlin with Miles is jazz guitar but a very different flavour. On his later organ-trio album "After The Rain" which is mostly Coltrane tunes (and has Elvin Jones drumming) he uses a semi with a Bigsby for a fat not-quite-clean tone only one sideways step away from Montgomery and Benson. SRV did a version of Burrell's "Chitlins Con Carne" ('Midnight Blue'), released on the posthumous 'Sky Is Cryin' CD. Everyone finds their own way in.... Regards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I agree. And I am ready and willing to be seduced. I do love Zappa - as well and John McLaughlin in Miles Davis's band - but that's not really jazz guitar is it? I just can't make the leap to stuff like Joe Pass or Herb Ellis. It's not like I find it offensive or not listenable. It's fine, but it just doesn't excite me. And it's not all about overdrive either. I love lots of acoustic music: country, folk, bluegrass. I'd love to love jazz guitar... but so far I just am not feeling it. Bring on the intervention! Convince me. I think jazz guitar can get too "modal" really easily. Then it's hard to get good dynamics and get the proper interaction between the chords and the single note playing. Swing type chord progressions seem to be more melodic. Miles Davis asked Les Paul how come he sold so many records and Les said "I play the melody." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 For one thing, I think "we" sometimes think of jazz as the bebop material grown from the swing era but nothing a crowd could dance to and... as has been mentioned... it's awfully technical. But you know, in the old days of "jazz," it was designed to be loose, fun material for the band and that was loose and fun for dancers in a low-end saloon as well. In short, imagine folks with early country and early blues backgrounds with some technical skills getting together to play and have fun while other folks danced and had fun. Dixieland is jazz. Bessie Smith was jazz and ditto Lady Day. Django and Grappelli... Parenthetically, you'd be surprised if you'd parse some old time and country fiddlers' material and find it's almost as though Grapelli were doing a country tune 'stedda a standard... Some country folks figured Chet was "too jazz." What of much of Willie Nelson's "country?" ... <grin> Whatever... m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Natural Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 I agree. And I am ready and willing to be seduced. I do love Zappa - as well and John McLaughlin in Miles Davis's band - but that's not really jazz guitar is it? I just can't make the leap to stuff like Joe Pass or Herb Ellis. It's not like I find it offensive or not listenable. It's fine, but it just doesn't excite me. And it's not all about overdrive either. I love lots of acoustic music: country, folk, bluegrass. I'd love to love jazz guitar... but so far I just am not feeling it. Bring on the intervention! Convince me. Listen to Wes Montgomery, A Day in the Life. It's my favorite jazz guitar album. When it comes to jazz, I'm mainly a Monk, Miles, and Diz guy myself, but I do like Wes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=x52x5hjpD5k&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dx52x5hjpD5k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F0sipEKhIhc&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ3yITi0Lh0&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Much in agreement with many of the points in this one. It had been said that players like Coltrane raised the bar so high that there was nowhere else to go; jazz did get very technical indeed, a whole constantly-evolving language to master and speak fluently. There has to be room for simplicity because most people aren't into the complex stuff, and it has to swing which IMO is not a technique but a feeling. Miles wanted to simplify things when he went modal. And as Milod notes, there is also Chet. He himself said he was not a jazz guitarist but he is one point where country music and jazz meet and IMO as important to 20th century guitar as Segovia in his own way. Sure there are many others - you got to have Bob Wills, and Jimmy Bryant and Hank Garland and who knows else - Jerry Reed, Roy Clark? - but Chet's output was enormous, ok you could say it was uneven but OMG could he play and was very influential. Mark O'Connor - what's he doing these days? Heck of a player and I should have mentioned Duke Robillard too, earlier. There are so many! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 1370729636[/url]' post='1385464']Much in agreement with many of the points in this one. It had been said that players like Coltrane raised the bar so high that there was nowhere else to go; jazz did get very technical indeed, a whole constantly-evolving language to master and speak fluently. There has to be room for simplicity because most people aren't into the complex stuff, and it has to swing which IMO is not a technique but a feeling. Miles wanted to simplify things when he went modal. And as Milod notes, there is also Chet. He himself said he was not a jazz guitarist but he is one point where country music and jazz meet and IMO as important to 20th century guitar as Segovia in his own way. Sure there are many others - you got to have Bob Wills, and Jimmy Bryant and Hank Garland and who knows else - Jerry Reed, Roy Clark? - but Chet's output was enormous, ok you could say it was uneven but OMG could he play and was very influential. Mark O'Connor - what's he doing these days? Heck of a player and I should have mentioned Duke Robillard too, earlier. There are so many! Hank Garland was most certainly one of the best ever, had his career not been cut short no telling where he would gone. The Jazz guitar debate is not complete with out two names that are often forgotten because IMO, the shift to soft Jazz when these two were at the peak of their popularity, Earl Klugh and George Benson. Interestingly, Klugh does not consider himself a Jazz player even though at age 15 he was playing for Yusef Lateef. His inspiration was Chet and they played together often. http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=mzitMFEy0ak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 You may not consider Jimmy Herring, or his Lifeboat album, jazz, but he loves the jazz genre, and I would consider that particular album a jazz-oriented work. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4jRC_E2SUk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 One of the best pieces of Jazz work ever, not a strong guitar piece, but one of my favorites. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=kPpxcKNzbjs&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DkPpxcKNzbjs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Bence, Jim Hall used a Les Paul Custom for a while when he was with Chico Hamilton. DG Hello Dave and thank You! I`ll definitely check it out! I had a wonderful afternoon with the Recording yesterday. Decade at 2, Bass at 8.5, Treble at 9.5. What a tone! That guitars makes me want play clean more and more. Before Her, I couldn`t imagine playing without some kind of a distortion on...Maybe I am going to play jazz soon? :blink: Best wishes... Bence P.S.: What a thread!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted June 15, 2013 Author Share Posted June 15, 2013 http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=wR7TDSgxiOY&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DwR7TDSgxiOY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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