locking tuners

[kb5szo]

I'm a long time player but new to the Epiphone line and this board . I'm interested in installing locking tuners on my 339 Ultra and my Genesis and would like the opinions of the pro's and con's of this type of tuner and the best brands of locking tuners for my Epi's from the members of this board. Thanks for your time. Eddy M.

[Pete B]

Quicker string changes, umm thats it!

[Gunner]

Quicker string changes, umm thats it!

+1

[capmaster]

Locking tuners are not bad at all but I don't need them. Four of my axes came stock with some, and I left them there. Therefore I may compare three different makes. These all are Grover brand machine heads on Gibson and Epiphone guitars.

 

It took me a bit experimenting to get used to the auto-locking tuners on my Epiphone Les Paul 1960 Tribute. I always wrap minimum three (E1st) to one (E6th) winding turns around them to allow for proper locking. If you cut the string too short and have too less windings on the tuner, the string is lost when you have to tune it down for whatever reason.

 

The manual locking mechanism of the two makes of locking tuners on three of my Gibsons is user-operated by using a thumb screw on the back. I wrap some turns onto the tuners despite of it and never had any trouble. They are very useful when the strings must be tuned down, and there is at least one turn on the tuner. There is a sufficient slack when needed, and there is no hassle tuning again.

 

In any case, I would pay attention that number and position of mounting screws match the stock machine heads.

[Bluemans335]

What don't you like about your tuners now, and what are you looking for, besides to spend money? You can replace everything on an Epi, but by the time you do that, you could have bought a more expensive guitar in the first place.

[Gordy01]

I put locking tuners on all my guitars.

If you decide to go with them, go to GFS to get a good deal.

 

PROS:

 

1. The biggest advantage of locking tuners is NO WRAPS around the post. This means no loosening of wraps causing de-tuning, while bending or using a tremolo. If you install the strings correctly you will never, drop-tune low enough to run out of string.

 

2. Quick, easy string changes when necessary. Once you use a locking tuner it is difficult to go back.

 

3. They look good, and are available in all three major colors.

 

CONS:

 

1. They are heavier, which could cause neck dive if your guitar is very light in the body, such as an SG.

 

2. Not very many styles of tuner button available.

[Sada Yairi]

It may not be relevant to you, but decide on what string gauge you want to use before you decide on the tuners. The aperture of the locking mechanism may not be large enough for the E and maybe A strings (as I found out when installing 12s on my jazz guitar with locking tuners).

[kb5szo]

What don't you like about your tuners now, and what are you looking for, besides to spend money? You can replace everything on an Epi, but by the time you do that, you could have bought a more expensive guitar in the first place.

I like the stock tuners but a freak weld break on a guitar stand sent the 339 to the floor and bent the shaft of the D tuner and finding a single tuner seems impossible so if I'm going to buy a complete set and the locking ones are better thats what I should buy. I am having issues with the 339 staying in tune : example I played a few hours last night tuned it up wiped down the strings with a soft dry cloth set it on a stand - this morning it is out of tune!!

[kb5szo]

I put locking tuners on all my guitars.

If you decide to go with them, go to GFS to get a good deal.

 

PROS:

 

1. The biggest advantage of locking tuners is NO WRAPS around the post. This means no loosening of wraps causing de-tuning, while bending or using a tremolo. If you install the strings correctly you will never, drop-tune low enough to run out of string.

 

2. Quick, easy string changes when necessary. Once you use a locking tuner it is difficult to go back.

 

3. They look good, and are available in all three major colors.

 

CONS:

 

1. They are heavier, which could cause neck dive if your guitar is very light in the body, such as an SG.

 

2. Not very many styles of tuner button available.

Thanks for the store suggestion I have never heard of them but they look good with good prices. Any brand suggestions from anybody?????????

[Gunner]

I like the stock tuners but a freak weld break on a guitar stand sent the 339 to the floor and bent the shaft of the D tuner and finding a single tuner seems impossible so if I'm going to buy a complete set and the locking ones are better thats what I should buy. I am having issues with the 339 staying in tune : example I played a few hours last night tuned it up wiped down the strings with a soft dry cloth set it on a stand - this morning it is out of tune!!

How far out of tune? If it's just slightly out of tune, that seems normal to me. Small temperature and/or humidity changes in your house can affect tuning. If you played for a couple of hours, you may have even warmed up the guitar/strings a little with your body heat, then it cooled down overnight. I expect that I might have to make a minor tuning adjustment every time I pick up a guitar to play. Guitars are not like pianos, that can stay in tune for weeks/months.

 

If you are having real tuning stability issues, it is almost always an issue with the nut. Have you lubricated the nut with some graphite, nut sauce, etc.? Do the strings ever "ping" when you are tuning or bend a note?

[DonCarlos]

A couple years ago I decided to upgrade the tuners to set of Gotoh SD 90 MG "Magnum Lock", with nickel butter-bean button. It was a drop in replacement for my casino. Looks nice, holds the tuning and much better than many stock tuners. Have had them on their several years, never a problem.

 

I posted picks of my guitar which shpw the tuners on this thread recently. Scroll down to black casino with vibratone. Good Luck.

 

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/99790-lets-see-your-epiphones/page__st__200

[Pete B]

example I played a few hours last night tuned it up wiped down the strings with a soft dry cloth set it on a stand - this morning it is out of tune!!

That isn't the tuners, a few degrees in temperature will change the tune

[Bluemans335]

If you are having real tuning stability issues, it is almost always an issue with the nut. Have you lubricated the nut with some graphite, nut sauce, etc.? Do the strings ever "ping" when you are tuning or bend a note?

 

+1. Master luthier Dan Erlewine says that 90% of 'tuner' problems are actually due to the strings sticking in the nut slots, which is cured by graphite powder.

[Bender 4 Life]

not only quicker string changes, but lockers allow you to remove strings completely and REUSE them if desired !!

 

i'm funny about my strings, won't replace them until they play out (usually takes a lot longer than you'd think).

also use a few sets of flatwounds @ $15 a set...it's nice to be able to work on a nut &/or upper frets, and reuse the existing strings instead of ditching them, even swap strings from guitar to guitar !

 

Gordys right about Guitar Fetish lockers....work great, 1/2 to 1/3 the "normal" price.

[capmaster]

not only quicker string changes, but lockers allow you to remove strings completely and REUSE them if desired !!

 

i'm funny about my strings, won't replace them until they play out (usually takes a lot longer than you'd think).

also use a few sets of flatwounds @ $15 a set...it's nice to be able to work on a nut &/or upper frets, and reuse the existing strings instead of ditching them, even swap strings from guitar to guitar !

 

Gordys right about Guitar Fetish lockers....work great, 1/2 to 1/3 the "normal" price.

I never had any troble with reuse of strings on conventional tuners. It can be a bit troublesome to pull the windings through a stopbar tailpiece, but in order to possibly reuse them, you will have to put some turns on locking tuners, too. You won't be able to pull strings properly to the tuner when trying to reuse them if they are cut too short.

[kb5szo]

I will definately try some lube on the nut I know I have fine graphite powder . Thanks Eddy

[disaster]

I went through a similar experience with my China-caster. My China-caster is a fixed bridge (no tremolo). I had some tuning stability problems that I couldn't get resolved. I had the guitar "set up" several times by "professional" guitar technicians without any improvement. I was convinced it was the nut or the tuners. I replaced tuners w/ Grover's sweet little rotomatics. Great locking tuners, if you're in the market for Gibson style tuners check out the rotomatics. Too bad they didn't fix anything. I bought 2 sets of nut files & filed nuts relentlessly. That didn't work either. I bought pre-slotted replacement nuts, including the teflon impregnated variety. I bought unslotted nuts & rolled my own. Nothing worked.

 

My China-caster was my first electric. I love it except it wouldn't stay in tune. So I finally broke down and bought another electric. An Epi SG this time. Also a fixed bridge & also prone to the same tuning stability problems as the strat. Oh joy.

 

I finally stumbled over a guitar instructor who had enough experience with these silly instruments to know what the problem was: intonation. I relied on the guitar techs for this but apparently there's more to it than meets the eye. I've tried it myself but my ear simply isn't good enough. This instructor's ear is better but not perfect. I believe the key is to find a VERY GOOD tuner and learn to intonate for yourself. I'm still searching for a suitable tuner. The Peterson strobe tuner may be where I end up. If your ear is better you may find a much simpler solution.

 

But before you spend too much time & money on mods start with the basics: new strings, truss rod adjustment, adjust for action, adjust pickup height, check nut slots for binding, & intonation. The last step is where I think you'll find the most gains, assuming you ear is good enough.

 

Good Luck

[capmaster]

I went through a similar experience with my China-caster. My China-caster is a fixed bridge (no tremolo). I had some tuning stability problems that I couldn't get resolved. I had the guitar "set up" several times by "professional" guitar technicians without any improvement. I was convinced it was the nut or the tuners. I replaced tuners w/ Grover's sweet little rotomatics. Great locking tuners, if you're in the market for Gibson style tuners check out the rotomatics. Too bad they didn't fix anything. I bought 2 sets of nut files & filed nuts relentlessly. That didn't work either. I bought pre-slotted replacement nuts, including the teflon impregnated variety. I bought unslotted nuts & rolled my own. Nothing worked.

 

My China-caster was my first electric. I love it except it wouldn't stay in tune. So I finally broke down and bought another electric. An Epi SG this time. Also a fixed bridge & also prone to the same tuning stability problems as the strat. Oh joy.

 

I finally stumbled over a guitar instructor who had enough experience with these silly instruments to know what the problem was: intonation. I relied on the guitar techs for this but apparently there's more to it than meets the eye. I've tried it myself but my ear simply isn't good enough. This instructor's ear is better but not perfect. I believe the key is to find a VERY GOOD tuner and learn to intonate for yourself. I'm still searching for a suitable tuner. The Peterson strobe tuner may be where I end up. If your ear is better you may find a much simpler solution.

 

But before you spend too much time & money on mods start with the basics: new strings, truss rod adjustment, adjust for action, adjust pickup height, check nut slots for binding, & intonation. The last step is where I think you'll find the most gains, assuming you ear is good enough.

 

Good Luck

+1

[epigretsch]

A couple years ago I decided to upgrade the tuners to set of Gotoh SD 90 MG "Magnum Lock", with nickel butter-bean button. It was a drop in replacement for my casino. Looks nice, holds the tuning and much better than many stock tuners. Have had them on their several years, never a problem.

 

I posted picks of my guitar which shpw the tuners on this thread recently. Scroll down to black casino with vibratone. Good Luck.

 

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/99790-lets-see-your-epiphones/page__st__200

 

 

I'd love to put these exact tuners in mine -- I can't find them!! Can you please tell me where you got them?

Thanks so much.

David.

[Scott0]

man, i am doing it wrong after reading all the replies that locking tuners = quicker string changes! it takes me forever. ugh.

[Victek]

I finally stumbled over a guitar instructor who had enough experience with these silly instruments to know what the problem was: intonation. I relied on the guitar techs for this but apparently there's more to it than meets the eye. I've tried it myself but my ear simply isn't good enough. This instructor's ear is better but not perfect. I believe the key is to find a VERY GOOD tuner and learn to intonate for yourself. I'm still searching for a suitable tuner. The Peterson strobe tuner may be where I end up. If your ear is better you may find a much simpler solution.

 

Interesting that it was an intonation problem. I would have thought that incorrect intonation would cause the tuning to be inconsistent depending on which fret you were pressing. In other words the open strings could be in tune while fretted notes would be out of tune (usually gets worse as you play higher on the fretboard). That's different then the open strings going out of tune. As noted differences in temperature naturally affect tuning. String bending can make strings go a little flat too, but once they are properly stretched that's minimal in my experience.

[Victek]

I put locking tuners on all my guitars.

If you decide to go with them, go to GFS to get a good deal.

 

PROS:

 

1. The biggest advantage of locking tuners is NO WRAPS around the post. This means no loosening of wraps causing de-tuning, while bending or using a tremolo. If you install the strings correctly you will never, drop-tune low enough to run out of string.

 

2. Quick, easy string changes when necessary. Once you use a locking tuner it is difficult to go back.

 

3. They look good, and are available in all three major colors.

 

CONS:

 

1. They are heavier, which could cause neck dive if your guitar is very light in the body, such as an SG.

 

2. Not very many styles of tuner button available.

 

Yes, the GFS tuners are affordable. There are different string locking mechanisms though. I think the type that have a knob on the back would be heavier than those that lock internally. I'm considering the Grover Rotomatic mini's. They cost a little more, but look like they would be lighter....?

[Pin]

The Peterson strobe tuner may be where I end up.

 

Any strobe tuner is simply miles better than a chromatic tuner - given the choice I just don't understand why people bother with chromatic tuners - they are miles "out" in comparison. And the poly tuners are simply useless.

[DonCarlos]

Gotoh SD 90 MG "Magnum Lock", with nickel butter-bean button. If you are looking for a drop in replacement that holds the tuning , you may want to consider these. I posted some pics on this older thread. They have held up very very well.

 

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/99790-lets-see-your-epiphones/page__st__200

[snowbum007]

+1 for the GFS tuners. I've had a set on my Dot for several years now. They are well made, so don't let the price fool you. I'm not much of a GFS fanboy but those are the best pieces I have bought from them and I likely will never replace them. I suppose they might weigh more than some others but I doubt it is enough to make a difference. I bet each one did not weigh more than an ounce over the stock tuners. I put a Bigsby and a roller bridge on at the same time, so for me the lockers make changing strings a lot easier. I've not had any issues with alternate timings but only do and drop on occasion. As the previous post stated, consider how much string you need if you play in a lot of different tunings.