JuanCarlosVejar Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 check it out : http://davesguitar.com/products/gibson-montana/sj-banner-limited-edition/ JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Hmmm. Looks familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Wait for the custom-aged model simulating your other SJ, John. That one will be rather more expensive, I expect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Wait for the custom-aged model simulating your other SJ, John. That one will be rather more expensive, I expect! :) I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Here is our sampling of banners -- obviously, there was a variety of sunburst patterns and shapes. The three on the left are all quite early -- the J-45 and the left most SJ are mahogany with really big no rod necks, and the second SJ is RW and according to Willi Henkes dates to Feb 1943. All of them have near identical bracing -- the highly scalloped "triangular" braces that John Arnold says accounts for the fact that these instruments mostly have less power than their 1930s predecessors. That having been said, the RW SJ ranks right up with the best on power. Go figure. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Tom, The guitar mentioned in the subject line is Gibson's replica of my guitar. (Your guitars are nice, though I must say that the finish on the mahogany SJ looks suspicious.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Tom, The guitar mentioned in the subject line is Gibson's replica of my guitar. (Your guitars are nice, though I must say that the finish on the mahogany SJ looks suspicious.) Well suspicious of what? Since I told you nothing about any of them, and since I know the history of the guitar and I have it in hand, I clearly know a lot more about it than you. I generally believe in minding my own business unless asked in such matters -- you might try it. But for the rest of you who might be interested, the previous original owner oversprayed the top and rubbed it down in the 1980s. More recently, it was rubbed down to typical finish thickness for that period by Ronnie Griffin -- that is why it shines like that. Other than that it is all original. That certainly effects its market value, but it does not reduce it desirability to us. We try not to hear with our eyes. Let's pick, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 @John , I can see gibson didn't do an accurate replica of yours ... they got the position of the soundhole wrong compared to yours . but as I have told you many times in public and in private you are a gibson historian in my opinion and I applaud your labor and effort in bringing the gibson acoustics to where you have at this point and even if the company doesn't care ... I care and you have made it worth while to me . I will buy the book when I visit Texas in about 60 days . @Tom , beautiful collection and you always kill me everytime you post photos . I have to say your collection is unique and I'm not sure that alot of people can pride themselves in having fine examples of most of gibsons legendary flat-tops ... I think you are only missing a prewar Super Jumbo 200 and a Nick Lucas (I don't remember if you have one already). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fp Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Juan I don't think the sound hole is positioned wrong. Gibson put a 20 fret fingerboard on this reissue as opposed to JT's 19 fret board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Here is our sampling of banners -- obviously, there was a variety of sunburst patterns and shapes. The three on the left are all quite early -- the J-45 and the left most SJ are mahogany with really big no rod necks, and the second SJ is RW and according to Willi Henkes dates to Feb 1943. All of them have near identical bracing -- the highly scalloped "triangular" braces that John Arnold says accounts for the fact that these instruments mostly have less power than their 1930s predecessors. That having been said, the RW SJ ranks right up with the best on power. Go figure. Best, -Tom Gee,I never seem to tire of this picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Well suspicious of what? Since I told you nothing about any of them, and since I know the history of the guitar and I have it in hand, I clearly know a lot more about it than you. Tom, Thanks for the clarification, Tom. A beautiful guitar in a wonderful collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 Juan I don't think the sound hole is positioned wrong. Gibson put a 20 fret fingerboard on this reissue as opposed to JT's 19 fret board. yeah I'm not saying it's not a reissue of a banner ... because I have seen some that have 20 frets . I really didn't think saying "It has a longer fretboard" would be clear enough but thanks for helping me get my message across . and I promise I'll talk about 19/20 frets from now on instead of "moved soundhole" lol =) JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainpicker Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Wow, drama! Cool. That guitar at Dave's has exactly what I like in a Southern Jumbo, especially an unbound fretboard. I hope it sounds as good as it looks. I, all of a sudden, reached an age (mindset) where I lust after new guitars but don't want to wait for them to open up and become what I figure will be an even better instrument than I paid for, that I get to miss. If you are a young man reading this, a great guitar quandry awaits you. I've realized that I can only service a certain size harem! I can almost grok the dilemma of the great Caliphs; through my guitars! At times I even have flashes of just what in the H am I gonna do with all my great instruments when the lights go out? So buying this guitar would be almost like buying it for someone else. I wonder if you vintage guys think about this kind of stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The burst on the reissue looks dull and lifeless to me. I much prefer the new "Montana Sunset Burst" on some recent Gibsons, which I also believe is much closer to the guitars from the 40's. My original finish 1942 J-45 and my new Sheryl crow SJ with the sunset finish look very, very similar. Also, too bad Gibson didn't get the number of frets right. A complete circle rosette would really have added to the beauty of that guitar. For sure, I would never miss that last fret... Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 The burst on the reissue looks dull and lifeless to me. I much prefer the new "Montana Sunset Burst" on some recent Gibsons, which I also believe is much closer to the guitars from the 40's. My original finish 1942 J-45 and my new Sheryl crow SJ with the sunset finish look very, very similar. Also, too bad Gibson didn't get the number of frets right. A complete circle rosette would really have added to the beauty of that guitar. For sure, I would never miss that last fret... Lars Lars, can you post a photo of the J 45 next to the SJ ? I'm a fan of the sunset burst too =) JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Wow, drama! Cool. That guitar at Dave's has exactly what I like in a Southern Jumbo, especially an unbound fretboard. I hope it sounds as good as it looks. I, all of a sudden, reached an age (mindset) where I lust after new guitars but don't want to wait for them to open up and become what I figure will be an even better instrument than I paid for, that I get to miss. If you are a young man reading this, a great guitar quandry awaits you. I've realized that I can only service a certain size harem! I can almost grok the dilemma of the great Caliphs; through my guitars! At times I even have flashes of just what in the H am I gonna do with all my great instruments when the lights go out? So buying this guitar would be almost like buying it for someone else. I wonder if you vintage guys think about this kind of stuff? I'm going to enjoy them until my time comes then leave a list for my daughter on their value for her to do as she pleases. I have and probably will pass some off to close friends before I go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickitPaul Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The burst on the reissue looks dull and lifeless to me. I much prefer the new "Montana Sunset Burst" on some recent Gibsons, which I also believe is much closer to the guitars from the 40's. My original finish 1942 J-45 and my new Sheryl crow SJ with the sunset finish look very, very similar. Also, too bad Gibson didn't get the number of frets right. A complete circle rosette would really have added to the beauty of that guitar. For sure, I would never miss that last fret... Lars Agree to that. This burst looks just like all the recent brownish bursts that have been going on all the standard J45's from recent years. Not that these bursts are not attractive, but on these SJ, should have been another kind of color. What is the purpose of the 20 fret necks, the older 19 fret necks looks better. Any reason they changed this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Juan, here are some pictures. The 1942 J-45: http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/89d15ecf08c3e0efd745da2af58f72d70dc67b6.jpg http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/2053552ec3df018fc1c8ee0def32a37b458a626.jpg The SCSJ in sunset burst: http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/67935d71c0c10ed1cd2ce211ef91e8a6034277c.JPG http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/16b359afcda305e8cd96e081e2077f96db85f14.JPG Both pictures of the 45 are representative of how the guitar looks in real life. As for the SJ, the first picture is very good. The second one, however, is with flash and a little too bright. The two bursts are very similar and have a redish tone, which I don't see in other modern burst. I love this color!! Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I think the question I would ask is how true the rest of the instrument is to John's original, which has an exemplary tone. Given the darker (VOS?) burst and the 20 frets, I would want to know what the structural differences are between this one and my Woody Guthrie, which retails for somewhat less. The JTRI has no pickup and a tort guard as opposed to the Baggs Element and firestripe on the WG. But both models have that burst, an unbound neck, the banner and 20 frets. Is the bracing really copied from John's? And is the neck actually bigger than on a WG? Have you looked at the Woody, Mountainpicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I believe the top on the Woody SJ is sitka spruce. The new reissue is adirondack spruce. Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I think the question I would ask is how true the rest of the instrument is to John's original, which has an exemplary tone. Alas, I'm not privy to any details about the replicas of my guitar. Perhaps one day I'll meet up with an owner of a replica and we can compare guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Juan, here are some pictures. The 1942 J-45: http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/89d15ecf08c3e0efd745da2af58f72d70dc67b6.jpg http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/2053552ec3df018fc1c8ee0def32a37b458a626.jpg The SCSJ in sunset burst: http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/67935d71c0c10ed1cd2ce211ef91e8a6034277c.JPG http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/16b359afcda305e8cd96e081e2077f96db85f14.JPG Both pictures of the 45 are representative of how the guitar looks in real life. As for the SJ, the first picture is very good. The second one, however, is with flash and a little too bright. The two bursts are very similar and have a redish tone, which I don't see in other modern burst. I love this color!! Lars Yum -- the photo of your J-45 is very nice, Lars! That's the one you had Willi do some work on, wasn't it? Nice. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Yes, that is right, Willi did some repairs on the guitar. One thing he did was to repair an old jack hole so well that I couldn't find it at first, even though I new exactly where to look. Here are before and after pictures of that repair. http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/a4d35549c5850ff1cf0be7c5efeb5ea11231862.jpg http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/00535964c1b50a14c080eaaceaf41d4eec4c4ab.JPG That is the work of an artist! The beautiful photos should also be credited to Willi. Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Yes, that is right, Willi did some repairs on the guitar. ...That is the work of an artist! Indeed! Willi is the best I've encountered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 Lars , wow the finish on the J 45 looks like a dream =) I can see how the Sunset burst really does come very close to the finish on the J 45 . I knew I liked it but after seeing your SJ I like it even more . thanks for being kind enough to share the photos . JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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