Gibsonnewby Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Hi all, this is my first post so here goes - I purchased a Gibson Songwriter Studio from local store in April 2013. As a purely acoustic/recording guitar it has no flaws. However, when plugged in to any size of pa and turned up to less than performing level it produced a feedback of around 80Hz. This couldn't be stopped like other feedback by muting the strings, you have to either turn the volume down or apply pressure to the bridge to kill the feedback. The fact that applying pressure to the bridge stops this indicates either that the transducer is not set flush under the bridge or the whole guitar begins to resonate at a low volume thus producing the noise. Guitar tech in shop looked at levelling out the seat of the transducer a couple of times and after he was satisfied that it was flush he then put the problem down to the rosewood back and sides of the guitar being lively and recommended a third party over-the-sound-hole pickup. Wasn't too keen on this and eventually went back in November 2013 when the shop offered to send the guitar back to Gibson. Gibson admitted there was a fault (although they did not specify what it was) and sent out a replacement which did exactly the same thing - fedback when turned up through a pa. Also the replacement does not play or feel nearly as good as the original. The shop advised that this may be due to the material of the guitar and the problem is common in many high end guitars? The shop also demonstrated a J45 model which fedback at around the same volume but this was due to the strings vibrating and could be stopped by muting them. I loved the original guitar and would settle with that and an external pickup although I am a little uneducated in this field. Any support would be greatly appreciated! Many thanks. x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I've got the same guitar being delivered to me this week. Hope I don't have the same issues. I'll be going through a Peavey Classic 50 watt guitar amp, not a PA. I'll let you know what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 . Welcome. That's an issue I haven't seen posted here before, and there are several members with Songwriters. Just a couple comments for you. I've had several Rosewood/Spruce guitars and none have exhibited feedback at reasonable levels. Currently I've got an Gibby AJ and a Martin D-45 with Rosewood/Spruce and USTs - no such problem. I plug them into a guitar amp, not a PA. Also, the guitar's position relative to the amp/PA can make it more susceptible to feedback - not facing and not too close is the general rule of thumb. Some acoustic guitar amps have a notch/feedback filter circuit built in. Have you tried a soundhole feedback cover? And last, have you tried playing with a mic setup? If so, does it feedback at low levels with a mic? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonnewby Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Hey, thanks for the replys! I'm sure yours will arrive in full working order... I have only used a mic in recording situations where there wouldn't be feedback anyway. I play in a touring band here in the uk playing mostly theatres and clubs alike - the guitar has the same issue whether through a large expensive pa or small guitar amp. The interesting thing is that the low feedback can't be stopped by muting the strings. I'm no expert on this just wanted a second opinion I guess. Perhaps an external preamp or over-the-sound hole-pup is the answer? Thanks again. x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonnewby Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Also, sound hole cover made no difference to the problem but made the guitar sound thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjl200 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 You are using a DI between the guitar and PA right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonnewby Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 The problem occurs on both small pa with no DI and large pa with DI. Has anyone else encountered similar issues with this guitar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Playing on-stage with an amplified bass? Electric bass drives an acoustic body to madness. A soundhole feedback buster can certainly help, but a sure solution is a parametric EQ. You can select the offending frequency in a very narrow band and attenuate it. Guitars with side mounted preamp systems have parametrics as part of the circuit for this reason, but you can buy a floor pedal parametric that will do the same job and solve your howling issues. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morkolo Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I could be way off on this but you say you still get feedback after you mute the strings. So did you check to see if the ball ends of the strings are pulled tight against the bottom of the bridge plate? If they're not this could cause some unwanted vibration that might not be detectable until it's plugged in, which could be what's causing those unwanted frequencies to ring on. Check to see if anythings loose inside with a small mirror, you never know what you may find.. hopefully it's something simple. I don't play plugged in often but when I've played my Songwriter Deluxe Studio through an amp, usually my Loudbox Mini and I haven't had any issues with feedback that couldn't be corrected easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonnewby Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Guys, thanks so much for all the replies! This is a very helpful forum. I have tried EQ pedals which do get rid of the feedback but make the guitar sound very thin. Feedback buster didn't work either! I have now a choice of shelling out on a third party pickup and pre-amp or going for another guitar. Will need to do a bit more research. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 feedback of around 80Hz. .... The fact that applying pressure to the bridge stops this indicates either that the transducer is not set flush under the bridge or the whole guitar begins to resonate at a low volume thus producing the noise. 80 hz is the absolute bottom of the freq range of an acoustic guitar. And really, most guitars probably have something of a problem producing that low of a signal very loud. Guitar Freq Sounds like (nice pun) you're correct when you write "the whole guitar begins to resonate at a low volume" and at low frequency. It undoubtedly gets worse with loud volume. That's a problem with most acoustic guitars: they act like a big vibration collector--especially if they have rosewood back and sides. In other words, your acoustic guitar is doing what it's suppose to do: pick up and amplify sound, it's just your guitar is made for playing an acoustic set without all the noise of a band around it. If the feedback can't be stopped by muting the strings, then it's the tonewood that's vibrating. That means you have a really responsive guitar and in most situations that's really, really good news. Trying changing where you stand if possible. If you're right in front of the speaker, that's bad news for feedback and for your ability to hear. (Seriously, just start a thread on hearing loss and you'll get the story from a bunch of people here who played in bands.) I'd try a high pass filter at around 80 or 90 hz. Your guitar isn't producing much of anything in that freq so it won't make it sound "thin." But it'll cut out all the lower freqs that basically just eat amplifier power and do nothing but make your band's total mix sound muddy. High pass filters are found on pedals and on mixing boards and in software like Pro Tools so you might already have one. Of note, you purchased a guitar called a "Studio." That's probably where it was designed to sound good, not in a loud band situation. You might have to save this guitar for recording and get another that isn't so responsive for band work. On this forum, it's good news when someone gives you justification for buying another guitar. FMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonnewby Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 Thanks for the reply. I think I have come across incorrectly when saying "the guitar feeds back at a low volume". What I meat to say was "the volume on the guitar doesn't have to be loud before an almighty bass feedback (which is much louder than the guitar is set at) occurs" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Morton Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 We will get this figured out for you. I have some calls in. Do you have a tech that you work with near you? I will be in touch by PM. Thanks JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Got it...Plugged it in...No issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Got it...Plugged it in...No issues. Got what ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Yeah, got what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Got what ? A Gibson Songwriter Deluxe EC. See previous post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 A Gibson Songwriter Deluxe EC. See previous post. So you solved your feedback problem by getting a new guitar? What was the problem with the original? FMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 So you solved your feedback problem by getting a new guitar? What was the problem with the original? FMA No, yhe OP was from Gibsonnewby. Same guitar, but without issue, sounds like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 No, yhe OP was from Gibsonnewby. Same guitar, but without issue, sounds like. Ooohhh. Now I get it. I'm a bit distracted; I've been trying to find some Chanel No. 5 to spray on my guitar like BBG said. LPguitarman! Sorry! Congrats on your new guitar! Glad to hear it doesn't have any problems. Why don't you start a new NGD thread so you can get a proper welcome from all the guitar rats here? Pix and a sound file would be welcome. FMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Yeah , no ones gonna see it in here . give it its own thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPguitarman Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Already did. NGD Almost... Just wanted to add my input to this thread on the OP's feedback issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matadams7 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 I know this is an old thread, but like many of you, I too recently bought my dream guitar, a brand new Songwriter Deluxe (although it's a 2016 model) and I have the same problem. It has a terrible ring and feedback cycle. I have not been able to pinpoint any frequencies. I can't plug into anyone's PA or amps without extensive EQing. I play every week at our church and I have spent hours making it "playable," but it sounds very bad. It sounds fantastic recorded direct in or miked. But it's literally unplayable just plugged into an amp or PA. I've tried a sound hole cover and I have an EQ pedal. I've adjusted the levels and gain and tone on the guitar. A very low gain and low tone and drastic EQ on the PA make it playable. I brought it into Guitar Center and he had no advice. He said my pickup was top of the line. This is not a typical problem that just needs EQing. I have played tons of guitars and have other low-end acoustics and I do not have this problem with any of them. I would not like to just "get by". I would like for my $3,000 guitar to sound beautiful like the $300 guitar that my friend plays. Any ideas? I would love some help with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docr Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 The 300$ guitar can be made of plyood and have a construction which does not resonate as good as your Songwriter. I am plugging in my Gibson acoustics if necessary - typically sessions and open staged where I cannot pick them up with a microphone but I don not like the sound very much, even if the pickup Systems Gibson is using is state of the art. Plugging in costs sound for 2.000 € for my ears. Most of the guitars work well on a PA (loudness level not too high, drumset is not on the PA, electric bass mostly played over an own amp). My experience is that the smaller body Gibsons are easier to handle - not very surprising. The worst problem makes a SJ200 AN with an Anthem pickup, very sensitve at low frequencies + A-string wants to "explode" it you do not take care. Had this topic in this forum and got helpful hints which improved the situation. At the end of the day I bought a small PALMER acoustic-preamp with a notch filter and it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotwind Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 Try taking down the 2-250mHz zone, it has worked for me as I’ve looked for a better pickup. Added the soundhole cover, convinced it’s a good thing. Permanent solution will be different with everybody but I kind of want to get a soundhole pickup for mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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