lordraptor1 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 well I bought a new epi les paul standard plus top pro on 1-28-2014 and last night I went to change the caps in it only to open the cover and find a .015 400v 225p orange drop cap on the neck and a .022 400v 225p orange drop cap on the bridge. as I have NEVER heard of this before I got worried that GC had screwed me somehow and sold me a used one as new so I contacted GC and was told that the guitar in question was in fact new according to their records, so I was just wondering if anyone else has been greeted to a welcome surprise like this :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Lordraptor1, Haven't seen any of the 2014's yet. Hope others have and answer. In the mean time, pics would be nice. Concerning the caps.....unless someone else chimes in....You can always call or E-mail Customer Service. Epiphone has made several subtle quality changes lately. Otherwise, congrats on the new guitar! How do you like the Probuckers with the coil tapping? Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordraptor1 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 actually my lp is a 2013 model, as far as your other questions go. i actually like the sound and feel of the guitar, when i pair it to my vintage peavey VTM120 i can get a variety of sounds out of it and im loving it, i can get that bluesy rock slash sound, and the soundgarden sound as well so im a happy camper, i tried getting ahold of Gibson/epi but couldn't get through and i checked with GC again today and was told that the guitar is in fact a new one so the orange drop caps in it must have been a fluke as i have found nothing anywhere online that shows any of them came with actual orange drop caps and also the caps installed were .022 on both neck and bridge where as mine are .015 on neck and .022 on bridge (haven't even seen and of the actual Gibson ones being reported as having actual orange drop caps installed at factory either). anyway im loving my new epi lp, course i would rather have a "Gibson" but 1. i cant afford it and 2. i didn't like the sound of ANY of the "gibsons" i tried out in guitar center ( although i did like the look of a couple LMAO). anyway here are some pics of my epi LP and inside the control cavity ( untouched just as i found it when i first opened it up): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordraptor1 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 finally got ahold of someone from epi, and they are looking into the matter, according to the person I spoke with orange drop caps are starting to be used in at least some of the 14 models but mine is a 2013 model. only reason I am concerned is I paid for a NEW guitar and if this guitar didn't leave the factory with these caps then either guitar centers records are wrong and it was sold and then returned/sold back/traded-in, etc, OR someone in the store tampered with it. sorry but if I wanted used or even blemished I could have saved some cash but instead I opted to pay more for new so hopefully all can see my personal feelings on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crust Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 nice guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Very nice guitar, Lordraptor - HNGD! They seem to use fine capacitors at Epiphone. As for tone, I think that some Gibsons suffer from poor nuts. When comparing my Epiphone Les Paul 1960 Tribute Plus to my four hardtail Gibson LPs, it is the rather the make of the nuts, not the material. My Epi LP has no "bling" problems when tuning due to strings getting caught in the nut grooves - they run very smoothly. The breaking angle of the grooves matches nicely that of the peghead, so the strings are supported by a large surface area. The vibration is "nulled" better this way I think. I recently had a new bone nut set on a Gibson Custom Shop LP - a VAST improvement. It provides a much larger string support area than the stock one. I think there will be three more new nuts on my Gibson LPs in the near future. In contrary, I will stay with my Epi LP's nut as long as possible. I think it could be different, but hardly better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordraptor1 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 yeah my big thing here is that there are no records for exactly what was installed ( cap wise) at the factory, although epi confirmed they are suing orange drop caps on 2014 models ( and probably not all of them) there is no records showing if they started this practice in 2013, what the rating was ( .022 on both, .022 bridge/.015 neck, etc.) which has me questioning guitar center as to the validity of my guitar truly being "new". if epi could confirm my guitar was shipped from the factory with a .015 225p neck cap and a .022 225p bridge cap id be ok but epi can only seem to tell me that they are using orange drop caps on the guitars and not to worry about it ( well I'm going to worry because first off I paid for new I want new, second every epi and Gibson I have ever seen new have had .022 both neck and bridge, third never seen any epi pr Gibson with a 400v 225p orange drop cap installed at the factory ( just those tiny flat orange colored caps which aren't true orange drop caps), and fourth, there is a spot on one of the wires in the control cavity that looks like it was touched by a hot soldering iron ( tried getting a pic but just couldn't get a good one). so I am wondering what the community thinks, should I confront guitar center with the info I have received from epi and the pics I have taken of my control cavity showing the caps? or should I just let it ride and disregard it? keep in mind I live off va disability and don't have a lot of extra cash floating around each month and my above pictured epi was a few months saving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 No offense intended bro, but a million dollar detective job isn't going to happen for a 5 hundred dollar guitar or the capacitors in it. Do you like it? Does it sound good? Does it feel good? Is it new enought to be new for you, like does it have peanut butter on it or big scratches or anything? If it's a good one well, it's a good one, don't worry about the numbers or colors of the caps. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 ... and fourth, there is a spot on one of the wires in the control cavity that looks like it was touched by a hot soldering iron ( tried getting a pic but just couldn't get a good one). ... keep in mind I live off va disability and don't have a lot of extra cash floating around each month and my above pictured epi was a few months saving. In case the wire's isolation is seriously affected, this might cause trouble, but superficial spots do happen sometimes. An invisible melting of the core isolation covered by shield and outer isolation can be much more worse. Clearly nobody wants a guitar with flaws possibly inviting serious trouble in the future. Every guitar should work fine regardless of price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordraptor1 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 In case the wire's isolation is seriously affected, this might cause trouble, but superficial spots do happen sometimes. An invisible melting of the core isolation covered by shield and outer isolation can be much more worse. Clearly nobody wants a guitar with flaws possibly inviting serious trouble in the future. Every guitar should work fine regardless of price. seems to work just fine and does look like the wire hit the iron while being soldered but doesn't look like it is through the outer coating. so no issues there as far as I can tell, my biggest gripe is I have to save to get anything living off of va disability and when I pay large amount for new I don't want to get something that is used or been tampered with. in a nutshell If I could get confirmation as to if these were indeed the caps it left the factory with id be good, if not I would be wondering where they were changed and how and why they were changed between the factory and the GC store I bought it at. GC said it was new and they have records to prove that which ok fine, however I have had issues with GC before in regards to new and used gear confusion, seen them working on the control cavity of a guitar once and then putting it out as a new one ( only remember it because it was the day I was there waiting to see dave mustaine). I have also seen them take in used gear and put it out as new ( same day as a matter of fact guy traded in a Jackson v for one of the new mustaine Dean v's). I don't expect a big inquiry but at the same time the factory in china SHOULD have a record of what they put into the guitar when they made it I mean seriously the ones installing the electronics should know what they were installing during specific batches. anyway im just concerned I bought new and got used/refurbed/or tampers with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Are you on good terms with the GC? You know the manager maybe, even if just to say hello? Take it back, explain your situation, tell them you are not comfortable with the idea that you have the only Epiphone with Spraques in it, and you want to trade it for another. If they don't have one, they'll order you one or get one from the next store in the district. That way you get what you paid for, they get a customer for the next guitar you buy, and anyone else you send their way. It is definitely worth doing if the guitar bugs you that much. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordraptor1 Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Are you on good terms with the GC? You know the manager maybe, even if just to say hello? Take it back, explain your situation, tell them you are not comfortable with the idea that you have the only Epiphone with Spraques in it, and you want to trade it for another. If they don't have one, they'll order you one or get one from the next store in the district. That way you get what you paid for, they get a customer for the next guitar you buy, and anyone else you send their way. It is definitely worth doing if the guitar bugs you that much. rct I was with the old store manager, and here is what bugs me, the guitar has "spraques" in it which is fine, has a .015 neck, .022 bridge, again this is fine, what bugs me is I am being told it is new ( ok fine) yet I just want confirmation that the guitar left the factory with these caps and in this config, epi said they were using orange drop caps but I have seen repeatedly how the term "orange drop" has been used for any film type cap that is orange and I have never heard of a .015 being installed on neck from factory ( just .022's on both neck and bridge). if the guitar has been modified with these caps after leaving the factory I would at least like to know this, also if it was modified it should have been discounted a little and not sold as new IMHO. if it were to turn out that the "spragues" were installed after the factory by a previous owner OR GC i wouldn't mind as much if they just admitted to it and at least offered some possible solutions ( hell 10 to 20.00 store credit would work for me since that is the difference between new and blemished/refurbed). am i happy with the guitar, yes am i happy about paying full price for a possible used, remanufactured, refurbed guitar? umm no. i was lucky to finally get the funds saved to buy the guitar in the first place instead of settling for some crappy pawn shop/hastings/second hand thing with no case or a gig bag which offers bumpkiss for protecting the instrument. out of all of my music gear ( which isn't much) the ONLY things i bought new were my sr400QM which i got for 350.00 out the door with a hardshell case because it was NOS discontinued color, my LP, and a NOS ( still unused as a matter of fact) coffin case blood drive effect pedal, everything else i have was got used for cheap, traded for and didn't work until i repaired it, so hopefully you can see my point which is my money doesn't grow on trees and is very limited which makes paying full price for new and getting used a big deal for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I was with the old store manager, and here is what bugs me, the guitar has "spraques" in it which is fine, has a .015 neck, .022 bridge, again this is fine, what bugs me is I am being told it is new ( ok fine) yet I just want confirmation that the guitar left the factory with these caps and in this config, epi said they were using orange drop caps but I have seen repeatedly how the term "orange drop" has been used for any film type cap that is orange and I have never heard of a .015 being installed on neck from factory ( just .022's on both neck and bridge). if the guitar has been modified with these caps after leaving the factory I would at least like to know this, also if it was modified it should have been discounted a little and not sold as new IMHO. if it were to turn out that the "spragues" were installed after the factory by a previous owner OR GC i wouldn't mind as much if they just admitted to it and at least offered some possible solutions ( hell 10 to 20.00 store credit would work for me since that is the difference between new and blemished/refurbed). am i happy with the guitar, yes am i happy about paying full price for a possible used, remanufactured, refurbed guitar? umm no. i was lucky to finally get the funds saved to buy the guitar in the first place instead of settling for some crappy pawn shop/hastings/second hand thing with no case or a gig bag which offers bumpkiss for protecting the instrument. out of all of my music gear ( which isn't much) the ONLY things i bought new were my sr400QM which i got for 350.00 out the door with a hardshell case because it was NOS discontinued color, my LP, and a NOS ( still unused as a matter of fact) coffin case blood drive effect pedal, everything else i have was got used for cheap, traded for and didn't work until i repaired it, so hopefully you can see my point which is my money doesn't grow on trees and is very limited which makes paying full price for new and getting used a big deal for me. What about if it had been bought before, then modified and later returned without redoing the cap mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordraptor1 Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 What about if it had been bought before, then modified and later returned without redoing the cap mods? see this example would make it a USED guitar, however according to GC "records" I am the original owner. now given guitar centers comment and them claiming their records say so this would indicate that if these aren't the caps from the factory, then somewhere between the factory and my purchase the caps were changed out and I honestly would just like to know, however i get "it is new , "you are the original owner", from gc and epi simply says "orange drop caps are starting to be used" (although no mention if they are spragues or the more generic orange drop just because it is an orange colored capacitor). also factoring in the general idea that every Unmodified epi/Gibson i have seen the insides of has been .022 on both neck and bridge. regardless of the caps being a better one or not isn't the issue it's the principal of paying for new and getting a refurb/used/recertified. case in point, why pay 499.00 for NEW and get a used or refurb that sells in same store for 469.00? i guess it may just be me but sadly unlike a few on these forums im not made of money and have a dozen guitars, i have 1 guitar, 1 bass, and i had to save for a few months for the epi lp alone. my bass and guitar( still not 100% sure on the guitar yet) as is the hardshell cases they are in) are new 1 of my effect pedals is new ( which is a discontinued coffin case blood drive which will stay in it's box unused) but everything else i have is used, was non functioning when i got it and was got by trading other things ( cause i really couldn't afford to purchase the stuff new or even used at the local prices). also i must clarify my "local" guitar center is actually 2 hours away 1 way which actually tack on an extra 20.00 cost to any purchase i make in store because of the fuel expense. so i am just wondering if these caps were installed in the factory, or if they were replaced before i bought it, if they were replaced before i bought it fine but i think that would then classify ad the guitar being used since it was modified from factory. also to be clear the different volume and tone caps aren't a big pro for me since i leave them full up and don't roll on and roll off of them ( again just started learning) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 going by 1. you bought the guitar in 2014 2. the pictures show it has all the marketing materials still affixed to the top, pickguard stickers, etc 3. GC stating the guitar was new when sold to you 4. Epiphone stating they use orange drop caps in 2014 models. I would say the guitar that was sold to you is new, the caps were prolly on hand on the assembly line and used for the last few remaining 2013 models, including your's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwillow777 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Clearly this is going to bother you as long as you have the guitar. Take it back and get another one, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I was with the old store manager, and here is what bugs me, the guitar has "spraques" in it which is fine, has a .015 neck, .022 bridge, again this is fine, what bugs me is I am being told it is new ( ok fine) yet I just want confirmation that the guitar left the factory with these caps and in this config, epi said they were using orange drop caps but I have seen repeatedly how the term "orange drop" has been used for any film type cap that is orange and I have never heard of a .015 being installed on neck from factory ( just .022's on both neck and bridge). if the guitar has been modified with these caps after leaving the factory I would at least like to know this, also if it was modified it should have been discounted a little and not sold as new IMHO. if it were to turn out that the "spragues" were installed after the factory by a previous owner OR GC i wouldn't mind as much if they just admitted to it and at least offered some possible solutions ( hell 10 to 20.00 store credit would work for me since that is the difference between new and blemished/refurbed). am i happy with the guitar, yes am i happy about paying full price for a possible used, remanufactured, refurbed guitar? umm no. i was lucky to finally get the funds saved to buy the guitar in the first place instead of settling for some crappy pawn shop/hastings/second hand thing with no case or a gig bag which offers bumpkiss for protecting the instrument. out of all of my music gear ( which isn't much) the ONLY things i bought new were my sr400QM which i got for 350.00 out the door with a hardshell case because it was NOS discontinued color, my LP, and a NOS ( still unused as a matter of fact) coffin case blood drive effect pedal, everything else i have was got used for cheap, traded for and didn't work until i repaired it, so hopefully you can see my point which is my money doesn't grow on trees and is very limited which makes paying full price for new and getting used a big deal for me. No offense again, but yer way overthinking this. Good luck with it. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordraptor1 Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 No offense again, but yer way overthinking this. Good luck with it. rct none taken, like I said with how I have to manage my money paying for new and not getting new isn't cool, and if my LP came from the factory with spragues great if not then I want to know where from factory to the day I bought it were they changed and who changed them, ( GC, or a previous owner) and in the case of a previous owner why was it GC lied saying I was the only owner and their records could back that up? with that said however, it is basically the principal of the thing more than anything else. like I previously stated new was 499.00 + tax, a restock was 424.15 in which case I could have saved 74.85 getting the restock but I didn't I bought the new one cause I wanted to be the original and only owner, yet now I am feeling like I should have went ahead and saved the 74.85 in cash and got the restock, this may not seem like much to others but in my case it is a BIG difference. if I had the cash to burn and could afford to have a stable of guitars then I probably wouldn't care at all but seeing as I usually settle for cheaper due to limited budget when something like this does happen to arise it kinda sticks in my craw ( so to speak). just put yourself in my shoes and figure you have about 250 to 300.00 a month left after your bills which needs to go for any extra expenses ( stuff you may miss at grocery store, gas, running out of something and having to go te it like dog food or the TP for your BUNGHOLE LOL)and out of that you can at most put back 100 to save for a big purchase item ( such as an epiphone les paul and a hardshell case)a month and that a savings of almost 75.00 is a big deal. again if I am overtyhinking, ok but im not so sure I am in that my thinking tells me I paid for new and might have been given a restock instead of a new one, if that is the case fine just admit it and give me store credit for the difference in cost between what I paid and the cost of the restock. anyway the more I think about it the more I wonder about it, just figured forum members might have some opinions of their own as to what they would do if in my shoes however looks like a few on the forums aren't in a similar position to me in regards to money with the collections I have seen pics of LMAO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 ok ok, we get it. Either return the guitar or accept it as a big mystery but you keep saying the same thing over and over. Nothing more anybody can try and help you with here, we've all tried to either allay your concerns or tell you to return it for another. make a decision and move on. dang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordraptor1 Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 ok ok, we get it. Either return the guitar or accept it as a big mystery but you keep saying the same thing over and over. Nothing more anybody can try and help you with here, we've all tried to either allay your concerns or tell you to return it for another. make a decision and move on. dang. ok fine so basically everyone is saying who cares it's only money and everyone has it burning a hole in their pocket and can afford to possibly get ripped off buying something as new and getting used, well in that case i'll sell you a NEW peavey VTM120 half stack for 800.00 and give you a vintage used one without so much as a kiss my foot or have an apple how does it feel to have cash just burning a hole in your pocket, please tell me as I would really like to know, and you know you are right I'm going to call GC first thing tomorrow and give them all the info I have obtained and tell them I will be returning it for a full refund because I cannot prove the instrument was in fact brand new whne I bought it and only have their word that it was( bet they wont give it to me and instead will try to give me 60% of what they will sell it for which is actually quite typical of this GC)and I can pretty much bet that this is going to be problematic with guitar center just as it has been with epiphone getting info that should be documented, guess I can be glad I didn't buy a "Gibson" course I bet Gibson could tell me exactly what I need to know from their records seeing as they go so far as to put an RFID tag under the fingerboards so they can track them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott0 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 FYI brainiac, you're not the only one that has to save up to buy a guitar. And way to go competely misstating my point, I never said everyone is saying who cares, in fact, I said the exact opposite, I said you've gotten several replies with attempts to help. gfy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordraptor1 Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 FYI brainiac, you're not the only one that has to save up to buy a guitar. And way to go competely misstating my point, I never said everyone is saying who cares, in fact, I said the exact opposite, I said you've gotten several replies with attempts to help. gfy. help how? has anyone confirmed or denied that the epiphone les pauls have or do ship with Sprague orange drop caps? .015 neck and .022 bridge? nope, has anyone really gave any insight other than what I already knew ( take it back or keep it), again nope. anyone offered their opinion as to if it is right to pay full price for something that may have been tampered with by having caps chaged if they weren't installed at the factory ( assuming GC's records are correct and it is in fact new as they claim)? again nope. all I have got in a nutshell is take it back, keep it, or im way overthinking it which I assure you I am most definatley NOT overthinking it how is it overthinking if you expect new when you pay for new, how is it overthinking if you want to find out facts about whether or not you did indeed get what you expected? with that said I plan on calling GC this morning and informing them of my suspicions and relaying the info I gathered, sadly epiphone got my money so they don't care either way and apparently don't have records for what isactually being made and only assume that their specs are being followed allowing for minor changes that may arise (albeit Sprague orange drop caps in an epi doesn't seem right, on a Gibson sure due to overpriced nature of them). I am thinking that maybe guitar centers "records" are messed up simply being as I just don't see Sprague orange drops as a standard thing on a 2013, epi said that they were starting to use orange drops in the 14 models but were not able to confirm or deny capacitance, size, voltage, or if they were Sprague or not and I am betting that the "orange drops" they are putting in are the little flat capacitors that are orange in color that I can pull from older TV's vcr's monitors, and Pentium motherboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crust Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Just a small comment...why would Guitar Center/MF (or anyone else for that matter) change out (some of) the electronic components (capacitors) on a "new" electric guitar ? Why would any authorized (or unauthorized, for that matter) Epiphone seller (or any other guitar wholesaler/retailer) change out the capacitors on a brand new, factory direct electric guitar, unless someone was using them for another "project" ? I don't get the point of doing so, unless the electronics are being replaced with something cheaper, and the "original" electronic components are being used to "upgrade" a "custom" guitar, or something...What am I missing here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crust Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crust Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 2A223J is marked on the one capacitor that I could see ( I didn't want to "over bend" the leads on the other one to make out what was marked on there). "Orange drop" capacitors ? What does 2A223J signify ? Any clue to the manufacturer ? This is what's in the 2013 LP standard pro + I recently obtained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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