powerwagonjohn Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 With the recent acquisition of my 1952 L-4 it has me wondering about the L-5CES and Super 400CES guitars built in the 1960's if there is much of a differance is sound to the solid carved back versions of these guitars. Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl51 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Alot of it depends on the individual guitar. Being that be it an L5 or a Super 400 will cost one an absolute fortune for either a late '50's/or early '60's........assuming you have the money one would have to just try out each guitar on a strictly individual basis really.........I have played Gibsons from those years that were great and some that were real dogs.......regardless the seller still wanted major $$$$$$ for said guitar! jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny W. Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I had a pair of laminated-back guitars from the '60's--a Super 400CES and L-5CES--and both were excellent guitars. There are enough differences in construction between these guitars and earlier or later ones that ascribing any tonal differences to just the laminated back would be simplistic. Here's a photo of my '64 Super 400CES showing the one-piece back: Danny W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I was not aware that the Gibson high-end archtops were ever made of plywood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Versatile Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I may be right or I may be wrong... Many excellent Gibsons have laminated backs and probably fronts too... ES335, ES330, ES175, ES135, ES137, ES150 etc And appear to have strength, stability, consistency and reasonable cost IMO the solid wood instruments are the ones to aspire to, representing a higher level of craftsmanship... More 'thoroughbred' if you will Ducati vs Honda Ferrari vs Volkswagen When I listen to later Wes Montgomery recordings...I do believe the extra timbre of the top-line L5 can be discerned... V (carved top :blink:) <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Most Gibson thin line arch tops are made of plywood. http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/ES/Gibson-Custom/1959-ES-335-Dot-Reissue/Specs.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny W. Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 The OP's question is about guitars that normally had all solid woods (the L-5, the Super 400 and the Byrdland) being made with laminated backs during the '60's. This primarily relates to florentine cutaway electrics and there was always the question of whether the plywood somehow affected the sound. Here's a '64 L-5CES with a solid back: Danny W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerwagonjohn Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Danny, your correct, I was just trying to start a conversation going. I know it would be hard if not impossible to discern a difference is sound but I have never owned one of these guitars. Were the sides laninated too? Guild was famous for there arched[laminated] back 6 and 12 string acoustics. I know Gibson never used laminated backs on their acoustic L-5 and Super 400. I forgot about the Byrdlands. I finally got a chance to teach Larry something after all the things I have learned from him! Him and everyone else here. Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis D near Milwaukee Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I know it would be hard if not impossible to discern a difference is sound but I have never owned one of these guitars. Were the sides laninated too? Guild was famous for there arched[laminated] back 6 and 12 string acoustics. I know Gibson never used laminated backs on their acoustic L-5 and Super 400. Thanks John Great topic ! I have been particularly looking at L-7 acoustics for sale. I would prefer a solid wood back. So far, I have concluded that if you see a seam down the back, it's a safe bet that it is a solid wood instrument,( at least on these Gibsons anyway, although it seems to hold true for vintage Epiphones too ). And if you don't see a seam, it's laminated. I am guessing one piece solid wood back would require a much larger piece of wood and be way too costly. Am I right ?? Is this correct ?? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeko Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Great topic ! I have been particularly looking at L-7 acoustics for sale. I would prefer a solid wood back. So far, I have concluded that if you see a seam down the back, it's a safe bet that it is a solid wood instrument,( at least on these Gibsons anyway, although it seems to hold true for vintage Epiphones too ). And if you don't see a seam, it's laminated. I am guessing one piece solid wood back would require a much larger piece of wood and be way too costly. Am I right ?? Is this correct ?? Thanks. I think that's correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny W. Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Great topic ! I have been particularly looking at L-7 acoustics for sale. I would prefer a solid wood back. So far, I have concluded that if you see a seam down the back, it's a safe bet that it is a solid wood instrument,( at least on these Gibsons anyway, although it seems to hold true for vintage Epiphones too ). And if you don't see a seam, it's laminated. I am guessing one piece solid wood back would require a much larger piece of wood and be way too costly. Am I right ?? Is this correct ?? Thanks. To repeat myself--laminated backs appeared only on florentine cutaway electrics. Acoustics had solid woods. Also, Gibson did make some laminated back guitars with a center seam, so it's always good to check the wood grain inside to see if it matches the back. Danny W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerwagonjohn Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 I don't think L-7 were ever built with laminated backs. Although never is not a good word to use with Gibson or Dodge Power Wagons Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis D near Milwaukee Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 " I don't think L-7 were ever built with laminated backs. " " Gibson did make some laminated backs / center seams. " Yes, I have found L-7's with laminated backs, and they have all been one-piece, non-bookmarked. Again my experience has been, if there's a seam, (' bookmarked' ) it's solid wood. I have never seen a ( Gibson or Epiphone ) bookmarked laminated back. My thinking is, from a manufacturing cost standpoint, it'd seem to be more costly to make a full size one-piece laminated back, then cut it in half, then re-glue it back together. I can't see the sense of a builder going through the trouble and expense of doing a bookmark matching center seamed back that had laminated pieces. I am mostly concerned with acoustic L-7's, 10's and 12', because they're the full-size. ??? And thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 non-bookmarked.... (' bookmarked' )... bookmarked... bookmark... The term is Bookmatched ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis D near Milwaukee Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The term is Bookmatched ! .....sorry...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerwagonjohn Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 I didn't know some L-7's had laminated backs. I played a couple L-7 when I was out in San Francisco and an old late 30's Super 400. The L-7's were pretty beat up one with a bunch of repaired cracks but both sounded great and they were only 2000.00 for one and 2500.00 for the other. They played real nice. I didn't look to see if they had laminated backs. At least a laminated back and sides won't crack. You can get cracks in the outer layer. Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevDavidLee Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The OP's question is about guitars that normally had all solid woods (the L-5, the Super 400 and the Byrdland) being made with laminated backs during the '60's. This primarily relates to florentine cutaway electrics and there was always the question of whether the plywood somehow affected the sound. Here's a '64 L-5CES with a solid back: Danny W. Okay everyone keep it down.. I need a moment alone with this photo... Uhh Uhh Uhhhhhhhhhh.. okay I'm done Jesus that's gorgeous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Hmmm... Ive never owned a L7 with a Laminated back... cracks tell all... Laminated backs Lift above the cross grain.. not all the way through.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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