12-String/Need Advice

[Frances50]

Hey guys: A friend of mine recently bought a Taylor 12-string acoustic and I fell in love with it. I'm thinking about buying one to round out my collection. Would love a Gibson but they're in short supply or not being made right now. Does anyone have any thoughts on a 12-string, either pro or con? Any advice would be appreciated before I spend the money.

[surfpup]

I love the sound of an acoustic 12 string, so I bought one. However, I find I use it very sparingly. It's a good sound, but unless you are going to be Leo Kottke or John Butler (ie make it your main instrument) I'd not recommend spending a ton of $. Just my two cents.

 

I picked up this one (a Seagull) for a few hundred bucks. Solid cedar top, made in Canada. It satisfies my jones without breaking the bank.

 

[kidblast]

it's really about the budget you want to apply.

 

The Taylor 12 strings are fantastic.. (if you go that route, do make sure that you carefully follow the care and maintenance process, they are pretty sensitive to climate changes)

 

Takaminie has a couple of nice ones, and there's a Guild Jumbo 12 string that looks pretty nice too.

[Searcy]

Many many years ago I fell in love with a Guild 12 string jumbo. Such a huge sound. But I have never been able to afford one. Not that they are outrageously expensive, it's just that I didn't have $1000 for a guitar I would not likely play all the time. But a few years ago I had about $500 to toss at a new instrument and decided to get a 12 string. I had narrowed my search down to either an Epiphone J200 (it had to be a jumbo for me) or an Alverez J style 12 string.

 

Finally I came across this beast in a pawn shop. It had only 6 strings on it and was missing some tuners and bridge pegs. I gave $125 for it, took it home and stuck some tuners I had one it and string it up. I don't think I would take $400 for it now.

 

 

 

It shows up about half way through this song.

[kidblast]

that Alvarez looks like the score of the century Searcy!!

 

NICE!

[Dennis G]

I've owned 12 strings in the past, and while they sound great, they really are not every day players. I was looking for something relatively inexpensive to round out the collection and Acoustic Guitar had this as a "best buy" recommendation a couple years ago:

 

It's an Epi DR212, and sells for less than $200. It sounds a little thin for a 12 string, but the fit and finish is excellent. For what little use I knew it would get, this is just perfect for me. YMMV>

[Riffster]

I have a Fender DC 12 or something like that, bought it 8 years ago for $140 brand new.

 

It is a really well made guitar for a budget instrument and it is good enough to strum around once in a while.

 

The bridge is lifting a bit but can be fixed, in hindsight I should have tuned it flat all these years to ease string tension.

[Frances50]

Thanks for the responses. I went ahead and bought a Taylor PS56ce from Sweetwater. Should have it sometime next week. It was overkill to buy it because it's a bling guitar but I'm a girl and I like the bling. My bucket list is to have nice guitars and learn to play them so this will round out my collection. I know I won't play it every day but it will look good in my cabinet with my DIF and J-45. I will upload pics when I get them. Sweetwater will be sending me my invoice w/pics shortly. I asked to have lighter strings put on the guitar so it didn't ship on Friday.

 

Thanks again.

[Riffster]

Nice, if you do not play it often I would keep it tuned to flat, you can always put a capo on the first fret and play normally, not exactly the same but even some famous players do this.

 

12-string guitars sound huge, they are head turners for sure.

 

And yea, that guitar has a lot of bling.

[Dennis G]

Nice, if you do not play it often I would keep it tuned to flat, you can always put a capo on the first fret and play normally, not exactly the same but even some famous players do this.

Sweet guitar Frances. Congrats. If it were me, I'd ask Taylor about this. I've kept my DR212 tuned to pitch and have not had any issues as a result. I've read somewhere that more recent 12 strings are built to withstand the additional tension caused by the additional strings.

 

Riffster is right in that a lot of players do this, but I'm just wondering if it's really necessary. I've owned a few 12's over the years, always kept them tuned to pitch and never had any issues.

 

I'm about to pull the trigger on a Gretsch electric 12 string and will be asking them the same question.

[Riffster]

Yea, probably on a guitar of this caliber is not necessary.

[Frances50]

Thanks for all the input. I should have the guitar sometime next week. I talked to my guitar instructor today at length. He did say the lighter strings would help with any additional tension on the bridge but agreed that with the caliber of this guitar, I shouldn't have a lot of issues. I'll know more when I get the guitar in and I will take it to my guitar practice next Saturday. I'm already looking at 12-string guitar songs to experiment with. I will post pics when I I get them

 

Thanks again.

[Riffster]

Hotel California obviously but Stevie Ray Vaughan's Life by the Drop is the coolest 12string shuffle ever.

[fretplay]

I love the sound of a 12 string guitar but they are hard work. You can get a very nice 12 string guitar sound by using Nashville Tuning strings, easier to play and costs little. I have mind on a J45 and its great.

[Searcy]

Honestly that Alveraze about is the only decent acoustic guitar I have so I do tent to keep an ear ouf for good 12 string work. I've done a cover of SRV's "Life by The Drop". It's a classic in my book but the person who most consistently puts out fantastic 12 string work that shows a very deep understanding of how it sits in a song is Melissa Etheridge. Her first two records are glorious celebrations of 12 string groove and funk along with heart breaking melody.

 

 

[Dennis G]

the person who most consistently puts out fantastic 12 string work that shows a very deep understanding of how it sits in a song is Melissa Etheridge.

My wife and I saw her do a solo show at the Orange County (CA) Fair a couple of years ago She accompanied herself on an Ovation 12 string. Great show!

[Searcy]

I read an interview with her a year or so ago where she said her main guitar as a gibson 12 which she uses for writing and recording. She said at the start of each tour she buys about 6 Ovations. According to her they better at control go feed back but she said they tend to call apart fast. By the end of the tour they are all trashed and she gives them away. Her Gibson is too important to trash like that.

[daveinspain]

Congrats on the Taylor 12 string... I had a look on Sweetwater's web to have a llok at that model.... It's beautiful! May it inspire you to learn to master it...

[Dennis G]

I'm already looking at 12-string guitar songs to experiment with.

 

Leo Kottke. Doesn't get any better for 12 strings.

[milod]

I'm Kottke fan myself, but I do more on the 6.

 

Just updated 12s, and I tend to have a different philosophy on 'em.

 

Kottke's pretty young (okay, just a month younger than I am), but note a lotta his material had a mag soundhole pup which I have on my super-cheapie but surprisingly nice-playing 12. It's all laminate, but does rather well as an electric player.

 

The thing with a 12 does tend to have a lot of different variables compared to a 6.

 

There's a different kind of concern about nut width and string spacing at the nut than on a six. Both are huge variables in terms of one's technique. So is the question of super-light strings at standard-to-flat a whole tone or slightly heavier strings at whole tone or more dropped. Or lessened string pressure using dropped open chord tunings. (Kottke drops his heavier strings regardless.)

 

That, rather than "quality" have been my concern since I bought my second 12, an electric Hagstrom "board" back in the '70s.

 

First was an ax-handle neck Stella. Had a trapeze endpiece that I think let the sound be a bit better than expected and it also was all-wood. It was my third guitar, and bought around the summer of '64. It did play surprisingly well and sounded quite good for the day, but then it also was solid wood regardless that it was a typically over-engineered Harmony product.

 

A lady friend / guitar student who had some Warner records was quite happy with an AE Ovation 12 in the late '70s. Never heard much of her relationship or longevity of it.

 

I just got a Fender CD160SE that's a solid top. "Stole" it actually since it was brand new but minor damage I'm working on. Plays nice and worth the full price tag, IMHO. And I'm actually a "I'll never get a Fender acoustic" sorta guy. It's AE, works well. Plays well and IMHO it's worth the street $430 US price tag.

 

The thing to me is that IMHO if you're an experienced 12-string player, especially a fingerpicker, unless you get a steal you can mess with a bit, it's more important to have a neck you like, nut and bridge string spacing ditto.

 

OTOH, if you play it sorta like the Carter Family Scratch, which is actually more like an autoharp technique, the string width at the bridge becomes less important. Ditto for flatpick strumming. The neck and nut width will depend on one's fingers and such regardless. (Carter Family scratch with thumb and steel fingerpicks, btw.)

 

Actually I'm less convinced of the need for "high quality" construction in terms of materials than I am in "high quality" in terms of sturdiness of design and a top that'll handle the pull of the strings. IMHO if it's AE, as are all my "acoustic" guitars, as far as I'm concerned it could be a laminate top if all else is of quality.

 

Still, different strokes for different folks, and if your purchase makes you happy, it tickles me. I doubt I'll ever buy a Taylor 'cuz I'm not into bolt-on necks, but their Kottke signature types certainly work well enough for young Leo.

 

+++++ As for 12-string songs, yes to Kottke stuff but... for some reason some folks figure it gets a little complex. <grin> If you have Leo's stage sense of humor as well as even half the technique, who knows, you might make a living at it.

 

If you're a bit folkie at all, consider Leadbelly material, Carter Family stuff (especially autoharp material), Ian and Sylvia back "in the day" did a lotta stuff with a 12 that did a lot of filling in sound. Also a lot of the "folk rock" stuff in the mid '60s used a 12, like "Walk Right In." Also Sylvia (Ian and Sylvia era) did "Woke Up This Morning" that was copied as a pop piece that did well. Stuff like Catfish Blues, etc., did well for the Tysons of that bygone day.

 

Still, "technique" always will raise its head. Gotta combine common sense with technique, setup...

 

Good luck with the Taylor.

 

m

[Frances50]

Pictures of my new Taylor 12 string which is being shipped today from Sweetwater. Thanks to all for your advice. I'm trying to attach pics.

 

 

[kidblast]

yikes,, that's gorgeous..

[dbrian66]

Pictures of my new Taylor 12 string which is being shipped today from Sweetwater. Thanks to all for your advice. I'm trying to attach pics.

 

 

 

I LOVE that guitar! I am very jealous right now. LOL. Congrats!

[Frances50]

Thanks to all. The guitar arrived today and it's more stunning in person than an on-line picture. It is equally as beautiful as my DIF. Sound is spectacular although I haven't really had time to try it out. It will be going with me on Saturday to my guitar lesson. I can't wait to show it to my instructor. I already have my Eagles songbook out for "Hotel California." I love Gibsons but this Taylor is stunning. Thanks again, guys, for all the helpful and nice comments.

[kidblast]

!!!Awesome sauce!!!!