Ryan H Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Also, they are much easier to use. Low melting temp, good flow characteristics. The Cardas has a melting temp of 160 degrees F. I think the WBT is the same, but I don't remember. Just checked the Cardas website..the lowest melting point for their solder products is 364 degrees F (not counting the solder bars). -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Just checked the Cardas website..the lowest melting point for their solder products is 364 degrees F (not counting the solder bars). -Ryan That's odd. Maybe I am not remembering right, but I could almost swear it was 160. It's possible that what I remember as being 160 was WBT. But that doesn't seem right in my screwed-up memory banks either. It's been about 8 to 15 years sense I bought any. It is possible they have changed it. Possible I am wrong as well. I am remembering at least that both the Cardas and WBT solder had lower melting temps than "standard" electronics solder, and was also made to sound better. As to why that 160 degree F is stuck so well in my head I honestly can't explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 That's odd. Maybe I am not remembering right, but I could almost swear it was 160. It's possible that what I remember as being 160 was WBT. But that doesn't seem right in my screwed-up memory banks either. It's been about 8 to 15 years sense I bought any. It is possible they have changed it. Possible I am wrong as well. I am remembering at least that both the Cardas and WBT solder had lower melting temps than "standard" electronics solder, and was also made to sound better. As to why that 160 degree F is stuck so well in my head I honestly can't explain. I doubt it was 160F. That's just 71C, which seems a bit impractical to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Collins Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 There is a near endless selection of solders to choose from, and in audio circles an even more endless array of opinions as to why one is better than another. My advice is not to worry about it too much, but follow a few basic rules. #1 - Clean and pre-tin your parts. Even new components are often oxidized or just dirty. Get some KimWipes or similar lint free cleaning rag and alcohol, and clean all your parts before starting to solder. Then pre-tin the wires and contacts for much quicker and easier assembly when soldering. #2 - Don't stress over solder type too much. There are lots of different alloys and even more types of flux/rosin - organic, no-clean, multi-core - when you get in to extreme specialty work these can have important differences. Soldering point to point wires on a guitar harness, almost any common type can work fine. Eutectic 63/37 is a bit better for hand wiring, but 60/40 is just fine too. No specialty solder is going to make your guitar sound any different, and the parts are not hypersensitive to flux or at risk of corrosion that may require special fluxes and cleaners in other applications. Kester 44 is as close to an industry standard as you're likely to find (my business partner used to supervise and manage resources for a NASA-certified solderer at a nuclear fusion lab, and she always used Kester), but many others will work just as fine. Just don't worry too much about it or buy in to any hype that one will affect better tone than another - for this job almost any general use electronics solder will deliver equally good results if the joints are done well. #3 - Get a decent iron, and keep your tip CLEAN and properly tinned. Nothing will destroy your chances of getting good joints faster than a dirty tip. Some people like wet sponges for cleaning, I typically prefer the brass sponge, but will use either. Learning to keep your tip in good shape is top priority though. If all you have is a 40 watt iron you can do a lot with this, so long as you pre-tin your parts and keep your tip clean. If you're going to be doing much soldering beyond a handful of occasional projects though, it can be worth getting a decent actual solder station like the Hakko fx-888d. A station with sensors and feedback to maintain steady temperature makes the process much quicker and easier than an iron which simply supplies constant power indifferent to the load it is being applied to. #4 - Use the right amount of solder. More is not better. Apply enough to flow out around a joint and secure the connections, but don't pile on big blobs. Aside from introducing more material to heat, you will obscure the final joint from proper inspection, and inspectability is absolutely key to ensuring good solder joints. Always keep a roll of desoldering braid on hand for removing excess solder should you have to redo a joint rather than just applying more solder on top of it. #5 - Secure your components to be stable while soldering. Sure you can probably get by most of the time holding a wire in place while soldering, but any movement or vibration while cooling can easily compromise the joint (more likely with 60/40 than 63/37). Still, holding components securely with some alligator clips, one othe those "helping hand" stations, or even a few pieces of tape (kept suitably distant from the heat) can easily keep parts stationary while soldering and better ensure a reliable joint. Probably lots of other things could be said, but these are some basic rules that should be good to follow. Clean parts, decent electronics solder, clean tip on a decent iron, don't pile on the solder, and keep your parts stationary while cooling. If you have a few hours to kill, John Collocia put a great series of videos on Youtube going through construction of one of his Horus pedals. They are unedited and very long, but full of all sorts of little details on methods, resources, and principles of soldering and electronics assembly. Worth watching a bit at a time if you're interested in doing much electronics work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Silver solder carries no benefits unless you are soldering silver connections, where it bonds differently and reduces potential damage to the silver that traditional solder alloys could affect. For most electrical work, there is no benefit in going beyond traditional lead/tin mixtures. As to 60/40 vs 63/37, I would go with the latter. 63/37 is a eutectic ratio, meaning it transitions from liquid to solid and vice versa at a single temperature point. 60/40 is not eutectic, which means it goes through a transitional pudding-like state as it melts or solidifies. If the components you are wiring are always held together by fixtures, clips, tape, etc, then the differences are largely moot. If your components have any risk of moving or jiggling even a little as the joint is solidifying, then the 60/40 leaves much greater risk of allowing a joint to be compromised. Not quite the same as a cold joint, but if there's any movement or vibration in this pudding phase, you can end up with a rather weak pre-fractured joint. I would suggest just buying a roll of Kester "44" 63/37 solder. Buy it once, and unless you get in to plumbing or jewelry you'll probably never have to buy another roll. That said, if you have 60/40 that works perfectly fine and I wouldn't worry about replacing it - you just have to be a teeny bit more careful . Beat me to it!!! 100% spot on IMHO and experience with electronics for 40 years. Kester "44" is all that I use. Unless I was working with P.C. boards on an assy. line, I just LOVE my Weller butane iron too. Esp. for things with guitars, connectors, amps, vol/tone pots etc. So fast, and very stable temp settings. Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Probably lots of other things could be said, but these are some basic rules that should be good to follow. Clean parts, decent electronics solder, clean tip on a decent iron, don't pile on the solder, and keep your parts stationary while cooling. If you have a few hours to kill, John Collocia put a great series of videos on Youtube going through construction of one of his Horus pedals. They are unedited and very long, but full of all sorts of little details on methods, resources, and principles of soldering and electronics assembly. Worth watching a bit at a time if you're interested in doing much electronics work. Thank you for your detailed response sir...... If all this works out for me and I take it to the next stage I will get a proper solder iron base an all that... but for now what I have will have to do :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Paul Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Pure Silver solder is the best for your guitar mate, reason being very little resistance at the terminal. The new DiMarzio Silver Zephyrs are wound with silver wire and soldered connections are the same. That's why they're so good (and expensive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Pure Silver solder is the best for your guitar mate, reason being very little resistance at the terminal. The new DiMarzio Silver Zephyrs are wound with silver wire and soldered connections are the same. That's why they're so good (and expensive). I'm pretty sure you're talking about the Seymour Duncan Zephyrs... -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Pure Silver solder is the best for your guitar mate, reason being very little resistance at the terminal. The new DiMarzio Silver Zephyrs are wound with silver wire and soldered connections are the same. That's why they're so good (and expensive). oh...no....not...not this...again... rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoundMaster Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Original post deleted by author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 OK I got my Kester 44 63/37 solder. Now I'm gonna go all eutectic on y'all. I never paid much attention to that stuff when I was supposed to. Now I'm all "Blah blah phase diagram blah blah crystalline lattice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
american cheez Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Didn't you hear me? Blah blah phase diagram blah blah crystalline lattice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Collins Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Didn't you hear me? Blah blah phase diagram blah blah crystalline lattice!! Good summary! The reason Kester 44 is a good choice is not because of any difference in sound, but because it's a long established well-vetted standard. Quality and formula of flux can vary between makers. Their flux has proven excellent in two main ways. First is that it flows out very quickly and evenly to work at the surfaces before the solder flows out on them. Secondly it has proven to do a very good job pulling contaminants and oxidation away providing the best surface to bond to. Then if the surfaces are clean it boils off quite nicely leaving little to no trace of flux behind (if you end up seeing that dark reddish-brown flux residue around your joint, that means there was still some contamination on the surfaces and the flux did it's job carrying it away from the joint). Then the eutectic 63/37 mixture just helps lessen the risk of a joint being compromised by any disturbance while cooling, by going instantly from liquid to solid during the cooling stage rather than leaving that partially-solidified state where any movement can cause problems. So it doesn't directly affect tone due to any magical conducting formula. It can indirectly affect results (especially reliability) though, by making it harder for you to mess things up and get a bad joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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