rct Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Raise them as close to the strings as you can without the strings touching the pickup. This will give you more output. No offense intended, but that is awful advice. Closer to a string the pickup is the worse it performs. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 No offense intended, but that is awful advice. Closer to a string the pickup is the worse it performs. rct Tell that to Joe Walsh. If you like Ill post you the video of him saying it. He used pickups set high when he was with the James Gang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 What Joe does is fine by me, but it doesn't make it right or good advice. Pickups too close is a very common problem. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 What Joe does is fine by me, but it doesn't make it right or good advice. Pickups too close is a very common problem. rct You've been shot down in flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Thanks everyone for all the great advise. It's not exactly "hotter" that I'm looking for, I know it's the PAF sound I want, it's just my bridge pickup sounds trebly but it's a little "thin". My neck pickup sounds great, but the problem is it's only got the one sound, I can't get anymore treble from it because the control is full up. The trouble with buying after market pickups is you can't really try them before you buy. Ian Hi Ian. If its about too much/too little treble, might it not be worth experimenting with some different rated volume pots? I mean, that would be quick and cheap and might just fix the issue without amassing pickups in the hope of finding th 'right' ones. just another idea (looks like you have received lots of advice) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 You've been shot down in flames. You think? rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 At 40 seconds Walsh talks about pup height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Did you listen to all the words? rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Raise the height of the pickups....Raise them as close to the strings as you can without the strings touching the pickup.... That's possibly the worst "advice" I've ever read in this forum. No; Don't. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Leslie West played his pickups high too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ...It's currently fitted with 57 & 57 plus......the website claims that the 57 Classics...are like the original "PAF" models... ...Will those pickups give me what I want which is a classic blues/rock ala Peter Green, Paul Kossoff and Snowy White sound?... I have a pair of '57 Classics (i.e. neck and bridge) in both my R9 and R0 and can get pretty close to the PG/PK thing without trying too hard - and lest it be thought that I'm being overly boastful I think Farns might even back me up on this claim... I also have a matched set of SD Antiquities in another LP which, if anything, sound even more 'vintage' (for want of a better adjective) although IMX the useable tone bandwidth of the SD's is narrower than that of the '57s. What this means in real terms is that the 'sweet-spot' of the SD's might (and it's open to debate) be more PAF-like but get out of that sweet-spot and the p'up has little leeway. The '57s are more forgiving and can be dialled-in faster and easier and are less affected by the sonic characteristics of the venue; i.e. they are less bothered by failures of the surroundings. I don't know why your '57 & '57+ aren't doing it for you. What pots and caps are you using?......(see below...) My immediate thought would be to experiment with your amp controls more... Pip. EDIT : Farns!....My SD'd LP is currently enjoying a well-earned holiday with Flight. Have a go, see what you think, compare it with your R8 and get back to us?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 http://youthvoices.net/sites/default/files/image/25509/dec/thinking-outside-the-box.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 You have a square head which opens by means of four flaps at the top? P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 my patented mixed metaphor: that's opening a bottomless can of worms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 I have a pair of '57 Classics (i.e. neck and bridge) in both my R9 and R0 and can get pretty close to the PG/PK thing without trying too hard - and lest it be thought that I'm being overly boastful I think Farns might even back me up on this claim... I also have a matched set of SD Antiquities in another LP which, if anything, sound even more 'vintage' (for want of a better adjective) although IMX the useable tone bandwidth of the SD's is narrower than that of the '57s. What this means in real terms is that the 'sweet-spot' of the SD's might (and it's open to debate) be more PAF-like but get out of that sweet-spot and the p'up has little leeway. The '57s are more forgiving and can be dialled-in faster and easier and are less affected by the sonic characteristics of the venue; i.e. they are less bothered by failures of the surroundings. I don't know why your '57 & '57+ aren't doing it for you. What pots and caps are you using?......(see below...) My immediate thought would be to experiment with your amp controls more... Pip. EDIT : Farns!....My SD'd LP is currently enjoying a well-earned holiday with Flight. Have a go, see what you think, compare it with your R8 and get back to us?! Pippy, that was going to be my next question, I have no idea what the pots and capacitors are, there just the standard one's that came with the guitar. I went into my local music shop Reidy's to talk to them about the problem (there a good bunch of guy's) and they invited me to bring my guitar in and compare it back to back with other Les Paul's, including a rather nice R8 that I played. I don't think the are that keen on me just ordering a set of pickups on a whim. I'm going to pop in with my guitar tomorrow. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Do not raise the pups as high as you can as advised by the opening flappy box head guy. IMX neck pups nearly always sound best way lower than gibson spec. The bridge, usually quite a bit lower. Raising them too high will be muddy and the magnetic pull on the strings will kill sustain and higher partials. Zentar, the best thing you can do before giving advice is to learn and gain experience. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here. Soak it up for a while. The open mind defence to being called out on these things only has so much mileage. It might convince someone with none of their own experience, that's not what you're dealing with here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobF_ Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 IanHenry ... Please post back with updates as you work your way thru this. RE: pup height. I once got a great deal on an American Deluxe Strat because the owner had the pups jacked up so high the strings would hardly vibrate. The owner just couldn't get the sound they were after I was happy to take it off their hands for 50% of FMV, change the squashed flat tubing and enjoy the crap out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hi Bob, I've lowered my pups as Farns suggested, and yes, it's helped a lot with the neck pickup. The bridge pickup still sounds a bit weak and shrill to me, but as I mentioned earlier, I'm taking it to my local music store tomorrow to do a few back to back comparisons. I'll keep you posted. Regards, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 IanHenry ... Please post back with updates as you work your way thru this. RE: pup height. I once got a great deal on an American Deluxe Strat because the owner had the pups jacked up so high the strings would hardly vibrate. The owner just couldn't get the sound they were after I was happy to take it off their hands for 50% of FMV, change the squashed flat tubing and enjoy the crap out of it. So another words you think everyone is stupid and unable to even realize when a pickup is touching the strings? You think we are so stupid that we park our cars on a hill and leave it in neutral with the brake off. You remind me of my old fashion guitar teacher I had in the mid 1960s who didn't even believe in electric guitars because he was so frozen in thought. The fact is that Joe Walsh, Leslie West and probably many many other rock musicians raise their pickups higher than book spec. It's common practice. If one pole on your pickup lacks the sensitivity of the other end. If you have that pickup set according to the specs in the book your sound will be unequal side to side. Use your ears to get the level of sound that you want. Throw away the book. Be a musician not a nerd. Use your ears. Books don'tplay guitars. A book can't hear your guitar sound. Book specs are for a perfect world. We don't live in a perfect world. Duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 So another words you think everyone is stupid and unable to even realize when a pickup is touching the strings? You think we are so stupid that we park our cars on a hill and leave it in neutral with the brake off. You remind me of my old fashion guitar teacher I had in the mid 1960s who didn't even believe in electric guitars because he was so frozen in thought. The fact is that Joe Walsh, Leslie West and probably many many other rock musicians raise their pickups higher than book spec. It's common practice. If one pole on your pickup lacks the sensitivity of the other end. If you have that pickup set according to the specs in the book your sound will be unequal side to side. Use your ears to get the level of sound that you want. Throw away the book. Be a musician not a nerd. Use your ears. Books don'tplay guitars. A book can't hear your guitar sound. Book specs are for a perfect world. We don't lives in a perfect world. Duh! BobF did not say the pups in question were touching the strings. In fact,the way it read to me they weren't touching. The magnetic pull on the string caused by a pup too close tends to kill sustain and higher partials (this is often the cause of muddy tones). Just because there are anecdotes about a few people with high set pups it does not change the conventional wisdom on such things, or indeed actual experience. The one video you cited actually said that they would probably sound better lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Pippy, that was going to be my next question, I have no idea what the pots and capacitors are, there just the standard one's that came with the guitar... Capacitors arouse much heated debate... Some folks - usually electronic experts (and I'm not being sarcastic; they usually are!) - swear there can be no difference between caps of the same value regardless of material because... Others swear there can be a difference because... Some folks have tried it and found it made no difference at all. Others have tried it and found it made the world of a difference. But the weirdest thing is some have tried it; found it made no difference to one guitar but that it totally transformed another, identical, guitar... Me? I was in the 'Extremely Sceptical' camp for years but I still had an opening flappy box-head and so I decided to try out a set in an under-performing LP. The swap did that 'transformation' thing mentioned above. So much so that a guitar which I was about to ditch became my #2 all-time favourite electric. I'm now in the 'it works sometimes but possibly not other times' camp. I've only tried it once. Perhaps if I was to try the same swap in a different LP there would be no difference. IDK. FWIW the ones which were replaced were a pair of unbranded (they turned out to be 3M) ceramic discs and the replacements were Luxe branded PIO 'Grey Tigers'. GTs are essentially PIO BumbleBees in a different wrapper. FWIW pt. 2. I happen to prefer '50s-style wiring and audio taper pots. Good luck in the shop. P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I can't read Pipy and Farnbrough because I put them on ignore but if you have twin pickups and one has a higher sensitivity than the other and you have them both set to book spec then your guitar sound will suffer. It only takes 5 seconds to adjust pickup height. If you liked the sound where it was it only takes 5 seconds to put it back. Don't be afraid to deviate from book spec. Don't be rigid in your thinking. Be creative. Trust your ears. Take the box off your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hello Ian! As Pippy said, caps can make a huge difference (or nothing at all). In my Classic Custom they did! I put in a pair of hand-made, English PIOs of brand Ampohm. They tamed my bit bright 57 Classics, and made it sound throatier. I believe, the best advice here is to experiment with guitar/amp control settings first, then pickup height, polepieces. If You aren't satisfied still, caps and pots might get You there. I would replace the pickups (especially 57 Classics) as a last option. Good luck... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 However, if I ever replace them, they will go in favor of Custombuckers. And I will put them into my CC anyways, just to hear them. Donny is about to buy a R0, and promised to sell me those. He said to me that the best PAFs are SD JBs. Rather hot ones, but still warm sounding units. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 I can't read Pipy and Farnbrough because I put them on ignore but if you have twin pickups and one has a higher sensitivity than the other and you have them both set to book spec then your guitar sound will suffer. It only takes 5 seconds to adjust pickup height. If you liked the sound where it was it only takes 5 seconds to put it back. Don't be afraid to deviate from book spec. Don't be rigid in your thinking. Be creative. Trust your ears. Take the box off your head. Rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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