Guest Farnsbarns Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Hello Pippy! Donny got addicted to Seymour Duncan pickups. According to Him, they are far better than Gibsons. So, He is going to replace the Custombuckers with JBs in the R0 He is planning to buy. I have heard the Custombuckers on Youtube (I know, I know!), in a comparison test and they sounded very exciting to me. I will definitely give them a try. I will send Your regards to Donny. Best wishes... Bence And mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 And mine! Sure! :) Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'm thinking about being in your part of the world next Feb if you wanna share a bottle or 3!? or more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 or more! Correct response! I'll take the conversation to email in the near future but we plan to visit Vegas on 14 Feb for our 10th aniversary since we were married in Vegas. We have all sorts of other maybe do's and maybe go's but Vegas is the 1 concrete part of the plan. Apart from visiting/meeting up with you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well, I went to the shop with my guitar today, but unfortunately the guy's that I had been dealing with weren't in, but I did do a back to back comparison between my own guitar, an R8, Standard Plus and a Custom. The R8 was very nice, the Standard Plus was awful and although it sounded quite good, I just couldn't take to the Custom (which weighed a ton). The assistant then tried to sell me the R8, even offering me a price for my Classic (which was the same as I paid for it new), but at the end of the day I don't want to sell it for something which although very nice, I don't want to pay a couple of thousand pounds for something that I don't like as much as my own guitar. So I'm no nearer. At the moment I'm leaning towards the Livebuckers that Emma suggested, that way I'd get the R8's pickups but keep my own guitar (and save thousands!) The search continues, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody78 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Ian, I'm surprised you are not too keen on the '57 Classic pups. In terms of tone, a lot has to do with the amp you are using and the settings on both that and your guitar, but I'm sure you know this In my own collection I have Gibsons with '57's, Burstbuckers, P-90's, 496/ 550t and 490's and haven't really experienced the problem you are having of lesser output between neck & bridge on the ones with 57's. Have you taken it to a tech? Might be worthwhile discussing it with one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 The fact is that Joe Walsh, Leslie West and probably many many other rock musicians raise their pickups higher than book spec. It's common practice. It isn't, buddy. You got two guys there and "probably many many others". I have been doing this since 1971. My list of professional, recorded, touring, drunken, chainsmoking guitar players making a living at this that DON'T do that needs a bigger internet. Let it go, bro. Joe is a great guy and I love him a lot. But he told you in the so far single bit of research you've done on string heights that it would have sounded better if he didn't do that. If you saw Joe at all back then you would know whatever he says on up to about the Can't Argue With A Sick Mind time probably wouldn't be admissible in court, 'cause he wasn't all there. Seriously. There are lots of terrific pickup makers out there that are just great guys and will give you far too much information over the phone and via the net. None of that information would be to "Raise them as close to the strings as you can without the strings touching the pickup." rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Correct response! I'll take the conversation to email in the near future but we plan to visit Vegas on 14 Feb for our 10th aniversary since we were married in Vegas. We have all sorts of other maybe do's and maybe go's but Vegas is the 1 concrete part of the plan. Apart from visiting/meeting up with you! Very cool! I'll look forward to reciprocating the great time I had in London We have a series of television commercials here that go something like,"What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas". We can modify with, "What happened in Vegas, will someday return" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I think Joe got drunk only once, but it was for 20 years "Oh man...it's a whole lot easier to just count the few times I wasn't...". rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well, I went to the shop with my guitar today............I did do a back to back comparison between my own guitar, an R8, Standard Plus and a Custom. The R8 was very nice, the Standard Plus was awful and although it sounded quite good, I just couldn't take to the Custom.... At the moment I'm leaning towards the Livebuckers that Emma suggested, that way I'd get the R8's pickups but keep my own guitar... Hi Ian. A few questions which spring to mind, if I may? Did your own guitar sound the same (i.e. relatively uninspiring in the 'Treble' position) in the shop as it does wherever you usually play it and did the R8 (treble) sound appreciably better than your own guitar? Am I correct in thinking that the neck p'up which you liked better once it had been lowered was the '57 and the bridge p'up which you still don't like too much is the '57+? I'm thinking a cap-swap for some genuine PIOs should be the first venture. Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFNgM9VQfZM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. C.O. Jones Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Yesterday I finally adjusted the pickup height on my Traditional, and I'm very happy with the sound I'm getting. I had to lower them especially the neck pickup. Those 59 Tributes sounded good out of the box, but now they sound awesome. Neck is only a little bit over the height of the pickup ring. Nice and creamy. One of the most beautyfull Lester tones I've ever heard is Bernie Marsden's "The Beast", and looking at some videos you can see that the pickups are set really low too. Can't imagine why raising them would give a better tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Hello Marcos. Both my PAF-equipped Gibsons (Classic Custom and L6S) has it's pickups flush with the rings. Maybe the bridge pickup is a millimetre higher. It really makes a big difference. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Don't forget the tall pup rings on vintage and Historics when specifying pup height relative to the rings. My R8's neck pup, therefore, is beneath the ring very slightly, the tall rings tend to have a more pronounced curve too so I think they're flush at the edges. Bridge is just about flush. That said, my R8 has a perticularly shallow neck angle. D'ya know what, I've decided while writing that the ring is just a poor reference point. Everyone get a decent ruler out and post string to pup height, I'm curious now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zentar Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Can't imagine why raising them would give a better tone. It's only a better tone if you like it. Raising a pickup increases the output. Lowering the pickup decreases the output. It only rakes 5 seconds to adjust pickup height up or down. Most people don't know how to adjust the knob settings for tone so they end up making changes to oem components unnecessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody78 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Most people don't know how to adjust the knob settings for tone so they end up making changes to oem components unnecessarily. No offense intended, but how can anyone not know how to use the volume/ tone controls to adjust their sound Equally perplexing, extremely difficult and only to be carried out by someone with a degree in engineering, adjusting pickup height involves using common sense and a very rare and hard to find tool known as....wait for it... a screwdriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 It's only a better tone if you like it. Raising a pickup increases the output. Lowering the pickup decreases the output. It only rakes 5 seconds to adjust pickup height up or down. Most people don't know how to adjust the knob settings for tone so they end up making changes to oem components unnecessarily. That assumes you have a Gibson Les Paul with modern wiring. If I drove my historic like that it wouldn't work for me. It's also aimed at beginners, I think most people on here know how to contol tone by amp and guitar settings. The issue here is not being able to achieve the desired sound by those means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watersilk Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 But all those guys sound different. So did all PAFs. They were made to no tolerance so they range from very cool to quite hot. Tightly wound to quite loose, matched coils to utterly unmatched. I'm sure you know what you're chasing but it's not going to be possible to define it by a pickup model. From what I have learnt so far I agree completely.... so many pickup manufacturers claim to replicate a '59 model.... but which one?????? The pickups that came with my 2009 '59 Reissue just sound dull and uninspiring to me, playing the guitar unplugged, I hear that there is potential there, I'm just determined to find it. Can someone please tell me if I need to change the wiring and pots on this model? I want to not only have tone, string separation and sensitivity, I also want to have something made with correct materials of the period, something that could have been taken out of a real '59.... there are some great pickups out there from specialist makers..... Steven's Design, Lollar..... etc.... but I think I've found my ideal set..... the one's Joe Bonamassa chose with the Seymour Duncan Custom shop to match the pickups of his favourite '59. I've heard these through 4 different guitars, through different amps... they seem to have the sound I'm chasing. I want wide tonal range, so a fairly low output, but just hot enough to drive the amp a little. I just hope Seymour Duncan's Custom Shop will agree to make me a pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 First-off you could try swapping caps for a pair of real PIOs (the BumbleBees in your R9 aren't PIO). It worked for me in that it changed a stunning-unamplified-yet-dull-amplified guitar - such as you describe in your second paragraph - into that which you describe at the start of your third. As has been written many times before the material from which caps are constructed shouldn't have an influence on end-tone yet many folks have found that sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't work but if it does then it's a far cheaper solution than getting a pair of SD CS offerings. The p'ups in the R9 should be wonderful so what have you got to lose? Just google 0.022 mfd 500v PIO capacitors and see what comes up. Luxe brand are good but pricey and there's no reason whatsoever to buy a fancy-named brand unless, of course, you want the cavity contents to look period. Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Hi, I've followed Pippys advice and ordered a new pair of Capacitors rather than just changing the pup's but I'm still awaiting there arrival. I did however order 0.022 for the bridge pu and 0.015 for the neck, that way I can brighten the neck pickup up a little. I'm also going to wire the guitar in the 50's style as Pippy also suggested. I'll report back soon. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Hello Ian! That's a great decision. I am using these in my Classic Custom with the '57 Classics: Ampohm PF-XTI-AL: Paper in Oil - Tin Foil: "Ideal for high-end tone circuits including guitar tone circuits, Ampohm's tin-foil in oil capacitors combine vintage tonal colouring with modern manufacturing methods Hermetically-sealed enclosure for complete reliability and component confidence Tension controlled precision hand-winding Highest purity (99.99%) tin foil Hand-soldered internal connections Insulated copper leadout Custom values available Custom configurations - axial or radial Custom and terminations - including silver leadout Custom labelling and branding available" Handmade in Cornwall, England. Works well, it did change the tonal character of my guitar just as I wanted it to. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watersilk Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 First-off you could try swapping caps for a pair of real PIOs (the BumbleBees in your R9 aren't PIO). It worked for me in that it changed a stunning-unamplified-yet-dull-amplified guitar - such as you describe in your second paragraph - into that which you describe at the start of your third. As has been written many times before the material from which caps are constructed shouldn't have an influence on end-tone yet many folks have found that sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't work but if it does then it's a far cheaper solution than getting a pair of SD CS offerings. The p'ups in the R9 should be wonderful so what have you got to lose? Just google 0.022 mfd 500v PIO capacitors and see what comes up. Luxe brand are good but pricey and there's no reason whatsoever to buy a fancy-named brand unless, of course, you want the cavity contents to look period. Pip. Yes, I read that on this forum.... they just look like Bumble Bee caps.... there is a long article on caps I read from a link on Seymour Duncan's site, the author says that it's only the value that makes a difference... but then says that he has fancy caps in his own guitar..... which I find rather odd...... I will most probably go for the Luxe ones... because I think they will 'look' closer to the period caps.... hopefully sound close too... would you advise the 0.022 mfd value in both caps? Some people choose different values for neck and bridge pickup tone..... I've used Jensen in a couple of my guitars.... It's the Bumble Bee look-alike caps that make me doubt the rest of the electronics in my Les Paul..... if the caps are just 'dressed' to look the part, it shows a lack of commitment from Gibson to achieving a faithful reproduction of the period model in every detail, short of using Brazilian Rosewood and Honduras mahogany..... and my gosh, we do pay for these models, so there should be no excuse!!! The pots look odd to me, no markings on them I can see.... I think they are supposed to be CTS audio tapered..... who knows what they are? I fitted Seymour Duncan pickups on my Hamer, however, I could only hear what they really sounded like when I changed all the electrical components.... it was like opening floodgates, the sound gushed out.... so something, or all of those original components were just blocking the sound path... The Youtube Steven Design videos are interesting, he's a fanatic, but anyone who really gets to grips with something and allows no compromises will look like a fanatic.... he says, just rip everything out, wiring, caps, pots... everything and throw this rubbish away..... ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watersilk Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 First-off you could try swapping caps for a pair of real PIOs (the BumbleBees in your R9 aren't PIO). It worked for me in that it changed a stunning-unamplified-yet-dull-amplified guitar - such as you describe in your second paragraph - into that which you describe at the start of your third. As has been written many times before the material from which caps are constructed shouldn't have an influence on end-tone yet many folks have found that sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't work but if it does then it's a far cheaper solution than getting a pair of SD CS offerings. The p'ups in the R9 should be wonderful so what have you got to lose? Just google 0.022 mfd 500v PIO capacitors and see what comes up. Luxe brand are good but pricey and there's no reason whatsoever to buy a fancy-named brand unless, of course, you want the cavity contents to look period. Pip. Pippy, I just thought of a question, if you have the tone fully open, the cap is then out of the equation is it not? Or does it still have some influence on tone? I thought the cap only made a difference when you start rolling off the tone..... ???? I don't know, I'm just curious.... some of these things seem to be blurred by the mists of magic.... :) The amount of different cap designs and brands are overwhelming..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Pippy, I just thought of a question, if you have the tone fully open, the cap is then out of the equation is it not? Or does it still have some influence on tone? I thought the cap only made a difference when you start rolling off the tone..... ???? I don't know, I'm just curious.... some of these things seem to be blurred by the mists of magic.... :) The amount of different cap designs and brands are overwhelming..... Some signal always goes to ground via the tone cap. A lot of people don't realise that with 50s wiring more signal is shunted through the tone cap when you roll the volume off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watersilk Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Hi, I've followed Pippys advice and ordered a new pair of Capacitors rather than just changing the pup's but I'm still awaiting there arrival. I did however order 0.022 for the bridge pu and 0.015 for the neck, that way I can brighten the neck pickup up a little. I'm also going to wire the guitar in the 50's style as Pippy also suggested. I'll report back soon. Ian <br><br>I think we are all waiting with baited breath! Is it possible to do a sound clip of before and after.... that would be interesting... for us... and you too :)<br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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