dickie Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 I guess Dear Prudence is indeed partly a result of John learning that style from Donovan. Good on him for that! Those Donovan 60s hits were produced by Mickie Most, very much a pop hit producer, always with an eye on chart singles. Nothing wrong with that, but it probably meant he was always being encouraged to write quirky folky hit songs. (I was in a band produced by him myself for a while, liked him a lot, but I know how it went.) It was Mickie after all, that got Jeff Beck singing his only big chart hit "Hi Ho Silver Lining" which I believe Beck hates to this day. I like those old Donovan singles but he was never really going to challenge the likes of Dylan or the Beatles for powerful compositions, was he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Those Donovan 60s hits were produced by Mickie Most, very much a pop hit producer, always with an eye on chart singles. Yea, M. Most played a huge role for the magic of the many hit-albums, but there was a third wheel as well. The arranger John Cameron, who blended so splendidly with the other 2 and the nature of Donovan's simplistic yet sophisticated tunes. This Cameron was chosen as capello when I saw D. in Royal Albert Hall a few years back. A grand concert with some 25-30 musicians on stage - among them Jimmy Page and Shawn Phillips, , , plus blessed double bass-man Danny Thompson, not to forget. That said, I like the raw and self-produced untypical Open Road too. Might be a place to start for people who think this artist is too sweet, , , , and mellow ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 So by the same token can you say no John Renbourn no "Season of the Witch"? According to legend, Renbourn and Donovan were at Bert Jansch's house one night where Renbourn showed Donovan how to play a D9th chord. Donovan went on to use the chord to start putting "Season of the Witch" together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 So by the same token can you say no John Renbourn no "Season of the Witch"? Ahaa, I always just played G7 - C7 , , , now C9 spooks and must be investigated. . Yeah, they taught each other, the whole bunch - kinda like the Acoustic Gibson Board members ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Mellow yellow is a song about the , many times tried, misguided notion that dried banana skins make you high when they are smoked. And 'yellow is the colour of my true loves hair' is stolen from countless Irish folk songs 'BLACK is the colour' of my true loves hair. Surely everyone had heard that song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Mellow yellow is a song about the , many times tried, misguided notion that dried banana skins make you high when they are smoked. And 'yellow is the colour of my true loves hair' is stolen from countless Irish folk songs 'BLACK is the colour' of my true loves hair. Surely everyone had heard that song? Assuming Saffron was the name of a girl, we figured the song was about, to put it genteelly, a marital aide. But when your already stoned smoking banana peels seemed to be as likely a way to get high as munching on Morning Glory seeds. Couldn't hurt to try. Alan Lomax stumbled on the song "Black is the Color of My True Love's Hair" in the 1910s. He believed the song came over from Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Mellow yellow is a song about the , many times tried, misguided notion that dried banana skins make you high when they are smoked. Haha, that was my exper- er, impression at the time. Nevertheless, thanks, Em7, for your recollections on that. BTW, didn't the Beatles, or John anyway, readily admit to listening to and being influenced by other groups current at the time? The Byrds, for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Haha, that was my exper- er, impression at the time. Nevertheless, thanks, Em7, for your recollections on that. BTW, didn't the Beatles, or John anyway, readily admit to listening to and being influenced by other groups current at the time? The Byrds, for example? Lennon always claimed to have been influenced big time by Delbert McClinton's harp playing on Bruce Channel's "Hey Baby." For a the Byrds influence, skip the Beatles and go straight to Fairport Convention, for my money one of the best bands to ever emerge across the Big Pond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Alan Lomax stumbled on the song "Black is the Color of My True Love's Hair" in the 1910s. He believed the song came over from Scotland. I had a blonde girlfriend at the time, so Donovan's version kind of resonated for me. But, as I think was previously implied, the chord structure is just way too simple to go for five verses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Very interesting input about Mellow Yellow! So nobody knows what it is about, do they? Admit it, come on. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I had a blonde girlfriend at the time, so Donovan's version kind of resonated for me. But, as I think was previously implied, the chord structure is just way too simple to go for five verses! No matter what color your sweetie's hair was, the gift to give her in late 1967 and 1968 was Donovan's "Gift From a Flower to a Garden." Lawdy, we were a romantic bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Very interesting input about Mellow Yellow! So nobody knows what it is about, do they? Admit it, come on. BluesKing777. As I said, once it dawned on you Saffron is a girl and not a spice it leads to one obvious conclusion. C'mon - electric banana? Think about it. But maybe it was just that our minds were in the gutter. I never liked that song much any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Okay, Saffron is the young girl - but she introduces him to saffron or simply is the saffronish type. In other words, Cougar, watch out - there could have been a 6th verse goin' : Saffron is the colour of my true love's hair in the evening when we sink in the evening when we sink That's the time - that's the time I miss the most And yes, people here tried smoking the banana-peels too - but way before my time. I just learned the song. The yellow tool surely is a vibrator - take it or leave it. As we remember a highly intriguing artefact when being plus/minus 20 as the writer is in this case. As said, I clearly recall learning and playing this tune with my friend when we were 15 - "YES, , , we can play and sing harmony !" Still do it once in a while - like colours (from now on with the extra verse). There is a showbiz-thing about the whole song - it's a bit off track and into something else like another YELLOW, , , talkin' the submarine here. And let's not forget that super sharp intro hi-hat - thcceeh ching tic tic tic thceeh ching tic tic. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 BTW, didn't the Beatles, or John anyway, readily admit to listening to and being influenced by other groups current at the time? The Byrds, for example? Paul and George took notes from the desk when they visited Byrds in the studio - guess it was the overworldly sound of the harmonies they wanted to implement on Rubber Soul. John for his part had this on the personal juke-box - 1965 ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGgmNBITa3Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Once I saw Donovan in-person I became more of a fan. No, he wasn't up there with The Beatles, Beach Boys, Stones, etc., BUT, he was there in the midst of all that music history. For a "live act" that for the most part consisted of him, his guitar, and maybe a guy on a bongo drum, he did pretty well for himself. He was never one of the really big names, but the guy has endured and he's still making music and money. Aside from a couple of his songs, I'm still lost about what all the others were about. But what-the-hell! We were in the "free love" generation and if the girls liked his music, so did I. The sixties at Volker Park in Kansas City, sitting in a circle playing Beatles, Dylan, Cash, and Donovan. 2-3 girls for each guy. What's not to like? The ladies are one of the prime reasons I wanted to play guitar. ...........BTW, The Beatles were also big fans of Carl Perkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Once I saw Donovan in-person I became more of a fan. No, he wasn't up there with The Beatles, Beach Boys, Stones, etc., BUT, he was there in the midst of all that music history. For a "live act" that for the most part consisted of him, his guitar, and maybe a guy on a bongo drum, he did pretty well for himself. He was never one of the really big names, but the guy has endured and he's still making music and money. Aside from a couple of his songs, I'm still lost about what all the others were about. But what-the-hell! We were in the "free love" generation and if the girls liked his music, so did I. The sixties at Volker Park in Kansas City, sitting in a circle playing Beatles, Dylan, Cash, and Donovan. 2-3 girls for each guy. What's not to like? The ladies are one of the prime reasons I wanted to play guitar. ...........BTW, The Beatles were also big fans of Carl Perkins. I use to think that the ever pervading Patchouli Oil smell at those outdoor park 'guitar-ins' was the smell of hemp - (girls in kaftans yeah!!!)and of course, wouldn't have known a banana vibrator if I fell over it in 1967, or until fairly recently.... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Folk Music 101. Clawhammer describes a way of playing the banjo sometimes called frailing. What Donovan apparently showed Lennon was his take on Travis picking. While Travis picking is sometimes misapplied to the clawhammer technique, the two are totally different styles. I think the confusion arises because over here (U.K.) in the 70s&80s Travis picking was commonly known as "Clawhammer". When I first picked up a guitar and wanted to learn finger style, I remember getting a book out of the library, which had a whole chapter on "Clawhammer" guitar, titled as such, and with diagrams. Donovan explains the technique as holding your hand in a claw shape, and starting each pattern (Roll) with the thumb and either an index, middle or ring finger, picking two strings together (One bass, one treble) then doing the rest of the bar/roll alternating. Lennon sort of played the technique a little different to the way Donovan explains, as can be heard on "Dear Prudence". It has become the basis of my picking technique also. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 YouTube has quite-a-bit about Clawhammer guitar. I've done something very similar for years. Didn't know it was called Clawhammer. I just called it "fifty years of bad habits." I guess it's kind of a combination of alternating base and how you curl your fingers for fingerpicking. When I look at how I fingerpick, I think instead of "picking" the string, I "pluck" it, especially in up-tempo songs.......Perhaps a different name for similar techniques........... https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrBT7rIErpVuk4AAhlXNyoA?p=clawhammer+giutar&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-316&fp=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I use to think that the ever pervading Patchouli Oil smell at those outdoor park 'guitar-ins' was the smell of hemp - (girls in kaftans yeah!!!)and of course, wouldn't have known a banana vibrator if I fell over it in 1967, or until fairly recently.... BluesKing777. Much of Donovan's music can be described as patchouli drenched. Went over big with the Canyons of Your Mind lyrics crowd. You have to wonder though was Donovan speaking from personal experience when he sang about an electric banana? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 YouTube has quite-a-bit about Clawhammer guitar. I've done something very similar for years. Didn't know it was called Clawhammer. I just called it "fifty years of bad habits." I guess it's kind of a combination of alternating base and how you curl your fingers for fingerpicking. When I look at how I fingerpick, I think instead of "picking" the string, I "pluck" it, especially in up-tempo songs.......Perhaps a different name for similar techniques........... Many of us started out in the 1960s playing the guitar version of clawhammer banjo. Hit the bass note with your thumb and with your four fingers clenched together followed it with some frentic up and down stroke strumming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 30, 2015 Author Share Posted July 30, 2015 Much of Donovan's music can be described as patchouli drenched. Went over big with the Canyons of Your Mind lyrics crowd. You have to wonder though was Donovan speaking from personal experience when he sang about an electric banana? But important to the thread - could you get AA batteries readily in 1967 or did the electric banana have a long power cord and transformer? There are 2 towns I know of, and probably others, in this country that could be called 'Patchouli Oil Drenched' still - one near me in Victoria and another near FB in NSW - where time has stood still since the Summer of Love! Not kidding. Patchouli Oil in the air and Kaftans.....both areas are mountainous! And I have played in one.... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Saffron is also a fragrant spice. I have no idea what the song is actually about........Judging by today's societal changes I can see the implications and insinuations of "electrical banana," but the song came-out in 66-67. Just a few years after "Louie, Louie" was banned from radio stations, along with songs like "Eve of Destruction," "Wake-up Little Susie," "My Generation," "Lola," "Let's Spend the Night Together" and numerous other big hits (not counting the songs that didn't do much on the charts----all for various reasons, but usually it centered around sexual content. I suspect that "Mellow Yellow" is about drugs, but in that era most people were trying to figure out what it was about. If the mainstream radio censors of the time thought the "electrical banana" line had anything to do with sex they'd have come down hard on it. Had they done that, the song would likely have sold more copies than it did. That happened to "Eve of Destruction." It got very little radio play until they banned it. Then everyone was asking about it and wanted to hear it......Interesting thread. And all due respect to Donovan, but he was not some great philosopher of the age. He was a 19-20 year-old kid having a blast with pot and the ladies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Wannabe Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 A couple of weeks ago I was checking out the J45 Donovan reissue and found a youtube clip of him performing Mellow Yellow. In it he said he and Lennon would sometimes peruse the newspapers for inspiration if they were stuck for lyrics on a particular song. He said that's when he came across an ad for a "marital aid", and then he launched into the electrical banana verse of MY. So unless this story is apocryphal, it should definitively answer the question of what the electrical banana refers to. Here 'tis: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Wannabe Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 And thanks to all, by the way, for their insights in this thread. I've never really been into Donovan before, but I've learned a bit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 But important to the thread - could you get AA batteries readily in 1967 or did the electric banana have a long power cord and transformer? BluesKing777. Hey, don't ask me. You would have to ask Donovan as he seems to have been in the know about such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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