nid2007 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I've recently thinned and shuffled the herd with the idea of settling into a small number to keep around for a while. The is all started with the purchase of an unopened box 2012 Bird TV. It's a good one. Like so many of you, I've played catch and release with countless Bozeman Gibsons--the 2012 TV is a great one right out of the box with a fresh set of strings. In my post-bird shakeup, I've monetarily downgraded my herd, so I now have the funds to upgrade to 2016 Vintage model if I want. i like the color of the 2016, but no so much that it matters to me. It would all be about the guitar. Anyone a/b a tv and a 2016 vintage? A noticeable difference in weight would be a big factor. I played a 2016 Vintage a few months ago and loved it. But have not had the opportunity to play one since getting the TV. Being over 50 yrs old, the idea of a top that simulates "played in sound" has some appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I would consider trying out a J45 Vintage instead of targeting an H'Bird Vintage, since you have a nice H'Bird True Vintage. That way, you get the torrified top, but a little bit of variation in the guitar itself. The danger being, if you get an H'Bird Vintage - you will be sorely tempted to keep comparing it to the H'Bird TV and sooner or later you'll decide you like one better and dump the 'loser'. With a J45 Vintage - you'll be able to appreciate and accept both. G'Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 At 50, you probably have time to do a good playing-in job yourself, but that doesn't mean you should have to. The vintage sound has always been my preference, and if they've actually found a way to synthesize it, that's a truly noteworthy accomplishment. At this stage of life, my interest in newly-minted guitars is more passive - or, if you will, academic - than active. I enjoy trying one now and then, but don't plan to purchase new stuff. Discretionary funds, when available, just feel better going for an original. If current luthiers have unlocked the secret of producing old-sounding new guitars I might have to change my thinking. Thus far, it hasn't happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Exciting place to be - that spot between True Vintage and new New Vintage. I had the chance and honour to A/B the 2 last fall. Did so with exactly the same faded strings here in the temple and liked the 16 a lot. A couple of hairs lighter perhaps, but nothing remarkable. It pretty much came out as expected. The 16 was drier and slightly more crisp, which isn't a virtue about the TVs. In short the burned Bird lived up to what it promises and I might have been tempted to keep it - 1/ if it wasn't for my real vintage squares and 2/ if my TVs weren't so satisfying as they actually are. Have to say I noticed a significantly shorter bass-string sustain on the 16. And as mentioned, all 3 were driven with faded Mart. Flexcores. But have a good chase there - I'm sincerely interested in your take on the pair. Pros - Cons - Differences - Details. A person in your situation is 1 lucky bastard, , , or should we say 1 levitating ornithologist. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Btw. OldCowboy - Is there a chance you could post a list with your herd. Can't really get my over-vue together on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Exciting place to be - that spot between True Vintage and new New Vintage. I had the chance and honour to A/B the 2 last fall. Did so with exactly the same faded strings here in the temple and liked the 16 a lot. A couple of hairs lighter perhaps, but nothing remarkable. It pretty much came out as expected. The 16 was drier and slightly more crisp, which isn't a virtue about the TVs. In short the burned Bird lived up to what it promises and I might have been tempted to keep it - 1/ if it wasn't for my real vintage squares and 2/ if my TVs weren't so satisfying as they actually are. Have to say I noticed a significantly shorter bass-string sustain on the 16. And as mentioned, all 3 were driven with faded Mart. Flexcores. But have a good chase there - I'm sincerely interested in your take on the pair. Pros - Cons - Differences - Details. A person in your situation is 1 lucky bastard, , , or should we say 1 levitating ornithologist. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Btw. OldCowboy - Is there a chance you could post a list with your herd. Can't really get my over-vue together on that. OK. And if ever I gain the proficiency to do it, I'll post a rogues' gallery group photo as well. Have patience for the aged and hoary😁 1942 J-45 1951 J-185 1951 Southern Jumbo 1954 LG-2 3/4 1955 J-45 1958 Epiphone FT-45 1961 LG-1.5 Lol - rebraced LG-1 1962 J-50 1965 Hummingbird 1968 Dove 1978 Guild D-35SB My only 'purchased new' guitar that's still around☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe M Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I had a TV, not sure of the year, that I thought was the best sounding HB I had ever played. Played many regular HB's and could never understand the fascination for them, just sounded ok to me. The TV was everything I thought a HB should sound like. Then, a couple of years later, one of my local Gibson dealers had a new Vintage that he had a hard time moving (don't know why, maybe the price) and offered me a great deal with my TV. Bottom line is, as great as I thought the TV was, the Vintage was even better; sound, weight, appearance, build, everything. The TV was great, the Vintage was, to me, as much better than the TV as the difference between a standard HB and the TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Another fine endorsement for the Vintage model by Joe M that might fan the flame even more for the OP. nid- is a shop near to you where you could a/b a HB-V with your nos '12TV? That might answer some questions. When dipping into the pockets to the degree for a Hummingbird Vintage model, it would be only natural to have the thought about what the real deal, 1960's model would be like. Toasted top V models do have the dry & crispy going on as Em7 noted, but is this getting away from the nectar from the original 'Bird? If keepers of 1960's models could chime in on the ideal year oldies for playability, that would be appreciated. And- would that be having the ADJ bridge? A major consideration in 1960's Hummingbird reality is the heavier construction (?) and the hyper-narrow nut width. If it came down to deciding between nuance in sound and playability, the decision becomes more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nid2007 Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 Thanks for the advice all. I should just enjoy what I have and end the shopping/trading spree. Em7's note about the shorter bass sustain has me thinking that could have been my impression as well. That is an important characteristic to me, and my TV has it going pretty well for a Bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 2016 Vintage models are torrified . True Vintage (2007-2012) models are not. I have 2 TV models a bird and a j 200 that I love. Would I get a Vintage model too? Yes I would if I had extra cash !! JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Another fine endorsement for the Vintage model by Joe M that might fan the flame even more for the OP. nid- is a shop near to you where you could a/b a HB-V with your nos '12TV? That might answer some questions. When dipping into the pockets to the degree for a Hummingbird Vintage model, it would be only natural to have the thought about what the real deal, 1960's model would be like. Toasted top V models do have the dry & crispy going on as Em7 noted, but is this getting away from the nectar from the original 'Bird? If keepers of 1960's models could chime in on the ideal year oldies for playability, that would be appreciated. And- would that be having the ADJ bridge? A major consideration in 1960's Hummingbird reality is the heavier construction (?) and the hyper-narrow nut width. If it came down to deciding between nuance in sound and playability, the decision becomes more difficult. Not all the originals sport the toothpick necks. Go pre '66. If you like the adj bridge, there it is. If not, switch it out. Rosewood saddles aren't your friend. Go ceramic (if possible) or bone. Tusq won't help. Long scale 'birds are not the same as short scale. Short scale usually benefit more from a fixed bridge. It's all quite subjective, and I speak from the perspective of a long-scale, adj bridge, ceramic saddle person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Not all the originals sport the toothpick necks. Go pre '66. If you like the adj bridge, there it is. If not, switch it out. Rosewood saddles aren't your friend. Go ceramic (if possible) or bone. Tusq won't help. Long scale 'birds are not the same as short scale. Short scale usually benefit more from a fixed bridge. It's all quite subjective, and I speak from the perspective of a long-scale, adj bridge, ceramic saddle person. Nid2007- apologies for the thread meander. Probably more bothersome to some (for organization of info under thread title?) than the performance threads in the general Acoustic forum. OC: would your long-scale, ADJ, ceramic saddle prospective be the Dove? And- would a '65 Hummingbird be clear of the plastic bridge era? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Nid2007- apologies for the thread meander. Probably more bothersome to some (for organization of info under thread title?) than the performance threads in the general Acoustic forum. OC: would your long-scale, ADJ, ceramic saddle prospective be the Dove? And- would a '65 Hummingbird be clear of the plastic bridge era? My Hummingbird is long scale, as is my Dove. The 'bird has its original rosewood adj bridge with the original ceramic saddle. The Dove has its original adj bridge - the saddle is ceramic. Can't remember if that's the original saddle or not - senior moment😖 I've tried the tone and volume killing saddles (wood and Tusq) on both guitars - ceramic👍 The nut width and neck profile on both instruments is the same, and both play very comfortably. The Dove is heavier - likely due to laminated back and rims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philfish Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 nid2007 I think we may live in the same area, didn't you have a Fairbanks listed with guitars you have, and now I don't see it. Saw one listed on CL now it's gone. If this was yours I can see why you have interest in a HB Vintage, who would't after hearing the ones on this form. That Gibson RS you have now ( beautiful burst ) should be keeping one in check for a few more days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nid2007 Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 nid2007 I think we may live in the same area, didn't you have a Fairbanks listed with guitars you have, and now I don't see it. Saw one listed on CL now it's gone. If this was yours I can see why you have interest in a HB Vintage, who would't after hearing the ones on this form. That Gibson RS you have now ( beautiful burst ) should be keeping one in check for a few more days Sold the Fairbanks locally yesterday. No problem selling that guitar once I put it up on a forum. It is such an amazing guitar, but it deserved to be with a better fit than me. The Stage Deluxe is better for hiding my playing flaws. The notes were unbelievably loud and clear. Here's my recent trail. Impulse buy on the 2012 Bird TV (unopened Box at Chuck Levin); then traded my hog dread for the Stage Deluxe; and then sold the Fairbanks. The Fairbanks being by far the most expensive of the bunch, I figure if I want 2016 Vintage Bird to replace my 2012 TV, I can afford to do it with the extra fairbanks $. And Istill keep within my "one in, one out of equal value" plan. But, getting the 2016 Vintage and then selling the 2012 TV is a hassle, and probably not worth the effort. That said, knowing the there is a used Hummingbird 2016 Vintage accessible is weighing on me. I hope it sells fast and shuts this down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 1942 J-45 1951 J-185 1951 Southern Jumbo 1954 LG-2 3/4 1955 J-45 1958 Epiphone FT-45 1961 LG-1.5 Lol - rebraced LG-1 1962 J-50 1965 Hummingbird 1968 Dove 1978 Guild D-35SB My only 'purchased new' guitar that's still around☺ Thanx - had the feeling there would be gold behind that stone. . CU in the theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nid2007 Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Sold the Fairbanks locally yesterday. No problem selling that guitar once I put it up on a forum. It is such an amazing guitar, but it deserved to be with a better fit than me. The Stage Deluxe is better for hiding my playing flaws. The notes were unbelievably loud and clear. Here's my recent trail. Impulse buy on the 2012 Bird TV (unopened Box at Chuck Levin); then traded my hog dread for the Stage Deluxe; and then sold the Fairbanks. The Fairbanks being by far the most expensive of the bunch, I figure if I want 2016 Vintage Bird to replace my 2012 TV, I can afford to do it with the extra fairbanks $. And Istill keep within my "one in, one out of equal value" plan. But, getting the 2016 Vintage and then selling the 2012 TV is a hassle, and probably not worth the effort. That said, knowing the there is a used Hummingbird 2016 Vintage accessible is weighing on me. I hope it sells fast and shuts this down. I opted for the hassle. I took the drive and now have the 2016 Vintage. I'll be a/b'ing it with 2012 TV as soon as I can. So tomorrow or soon after, up for sale somewhere will be a used 2016 Vintage bird or a 2012 Bird TV (that was taken out of the box 15 days ago and has about 90 minutes total playing time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 This should be interesting. And it may explain your being incommunicado. Did you get Sal's? Looking forward to the impressions from the a/b. If so, just remember- Sal at last check had the D'Addario Nickel Bronzes on there, which would make it a Bird of a different color. Congrats redux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nid2007 Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 This should be interesting. And it may explain your being incommunicado. Did you get Sal's? Looking forward to the impressions from the a/b. If so, just remember- Sal at last check had the D'Addario Nickel Bronzes on there, which would make it a Bird of a different color. Congrats redux. Got Sal's, yes. And I have sent you bunch of pm's- continuing the Bird discussion. Maybe one of us has inadvertently blocked the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Got Sal's, yes. And I have sent you bunch of pm's- continuing the Bird discussion. Maybe one of us has inadvertently blocked the other Negative on the blockage, here. All systems checked and go. Again, once the TV and the HB-V are on similar wire, this should be a very interesting a/b. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I took the drive and now have the 2016 Vintage. I'll be a/b'ing it with 2012 TV as soon as I can. Splendid - I already booked a front row ticket for the review. Ouhhhh, , , this Board is such a show ▲ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nid2007 Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Negative on the blockage, here. All systems checked and go. Again, once the TV and the HB-V are on similar wire, this should be a very interesting a/b. Enjoy. just to clarify, did you get a pm from me yesterday about the Vintage? and one a day or 2 before about Smecks? Just seeing if there is a glitch on my end. The messages are in my list, but no conversations show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nid2007 Posted February 28, 2017 Author Share Posted February 28, 2017 Splendid - I already booked a front row ticket for the review. Ouhhhh, , , this Board is such a show ▲ That's a lot of pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Please excuse us, forum, while we sort this. . . Yes, about Sal's fire-sale pricing, and the Smeck sale enablement of GAS money. No reply rec'd on the Bird a/b invite. Did you check your "my conversations" storage fullness bar on the left of the pm page? This is why it's good to add pm's to the end of pm threads with those frequently communicated with, instead of starting a new "conversation"; it doesn't reduce the message storage/use for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 That's a lot of pressure. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Sal won't be replacing the Vintage; I'm happy Neil has it. I have let two acoustics fly free in the last two weeks. I have three remaining that I love to play at home, and another cheapie at work. At one time I had nearly a dozen; this feels better. I am inseparable from my J50 and am really bonding with the HD28 I picked up a few months back. Do I like playing catch and release? You bet I do. But maybe now I can enjoy getting more intimate with the wood I have. I am going to buy a moderately priced electric though.... I am just weighing between two models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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