SJ200 - Anthem - Question Concerning EQ Settings

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We have a yearly "jam session + open stage" party together with local musicians of differnt bands. This means a lot of action on stage, and a lot of different instruments to be handled b the mixer/PA. Unfortunatley I am not only playing guitar, but am the PA man, too, which rises the stress level.

 

Signal path for acoustic guitars ist: Guitar --> DI box --> X32 digital mixer --> PA + Monitors (had a LD Systems Maui G2 last time).

 

In principle I do not like the Sound of acoustic guitars coming from pickups, I would prefer a microphone in front of a good acoustic guitar but this is no accepted by the other guitar pickers, mostly with background of rock bands and elecric guitars.

 

Coming to my question. I proudly took my 2016 Gibson SJ200 (Anthem pickup system) to the party and had quite big problems to get a good sound which is worth of this icon of an acoustic guitar. Due to the quick changes of instruments hanging at the same DI box /mixer channel I had problems with the low E and even more with the A-string of my jumbo. The same channel, same EQ settings with other, more "electric-acoustic guitars" like a Maton, Takamine or a Guild worked quite well, as soon as the jumbo was plugged in the E- and A-string have been "overemphazised", A-tring even starting to cause feedback. Of course I have experimented with the mixing between piezo and microphone part of the sound given by the Anthem System, but this did not help. Due to the fact of having rock musicians on stage the loudness level was rather high which made t not easier for me.

 

You can see so many SJ200s in Videos, obviously equipped with Anthem Systems and sounding ok. So I am looking for any advice from guitar pickers playing SJ200/Anthem on stage. I want to keep the pickup System, but maybe there are some experiences with this combination for the use on stage. I have used my J35 and my J45 in similar situations causing less problems which is linked to the body size of the guitar in my opinion.

[BluesKing777]

First, I don’t have your guitar or pickup....

 

A friend has the Anthem in a L-00, sounds superb until it gets wound up too loud...feeds. Mic goes off.

 

Now, yours....make sure you have a brand new working battery. They can do weird, weird things as they begin to drain. Next, plugging to the DI box supplied and having problems not had before screams ‘Impedance Mismatch’ to me. Cheap way around this is to buy a Boss tuner pedal which has good impedance for your Anthem system. Next would be to buy a Baggs Venue with guaranteed impedance match from the same manufacturer...also gives a feedback busting notch filter, sweepable mids control and its own DI.

 

Next would be to buy a Baggs M1A soundhole pickup, has its own preamp, practice lots with it before going anywhere to get over pickup shock, and buy a Baggs Align EQ pedal.

 

Expensive biz, isn’t it, gettng a sound out of the guitar?

 

 

BluesKing777.

[Jinder]

First port of call for me would be to whip the saddle out and make sure the bottom of it is dead flat and uniform, and that it sits snugly in the slot without being wedged in.

 

Every new Gibson I’ve ever owned has needed the saddle sorting out in this way. Tape some 1200 grit emery to a glass table and gently work the bottom of it dead flat. Also worth lifting the undersaddle element out to make sure there’s no grit, sawdust or dirt between the pickup and the slot floor.

 

These pickups are finicky to the extreme. This is exactly why I’ve largely moved to soundhole pickups over the last year or so, so much less hassle with string balance and feedback.

[docr]

First, I don’t have your guitar or pickup....

 

A friend has the Anthem in a L-00, sounds superb until it gets wound up too loud...feeds. Mic goes off.

 

Now, yours....make sure you have a brand new working battery. They can do weird, weird things as they begin to drain. Next, plugging to the DI box supplied and having problems not had before screams ‘Impedance Mismatch’ to me. Cheap way around this is to buy a Boss tuner pedal which has good impedance for your Anthem system. Next would be to buy a Baggs Venue with guaranteed impedance match from the same manufacturer...also gives a feedback busting notch filter, sweepable mids control and its own DI.

 

Next would be to buy a Baggs M1A soundhole pickup, has its own preamp, practice lots with it before going anywhere to get over pickup shock, and buy a Baggs Align EQ pedal.

 

Expensive biz, isn’t it, gettng a sound out of the guitar?

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

BluesKing777 - thank you for you reply! Battery is a good tip! There is still the battery in the guitar which I habe bought together with the guitar and this might have been set in in Bozeman.

 

Impedance mismatch should be no problem in my case as the passive DI boxes from PALMER work very reliable and are often used. And I think L.R.Baggs provides an output impedance that works with standard DI boxes. BoSS tuner pedal is an interesting advice!

 

Due to the special situation of the quick changes on stage during the jam session/open stage the use of dedicated signal paths with additional equipment is quite complicated as anything in the Signal path will not / cannot be used by the other guitars pickers using the same PA channel when they are on stage (unfortunately I cannot play the whole evening ). Under the premises that the battery in my SJ200 did not cause crazy things I hope that it should be possible to use a SJ200 with Anthem even at levels high enough to survive. I am just curious about experiences with the "bass sensitivity" of the SJ200.

[docr]

First port of call for me would be to whip the saddle out and make sure the bottom of it is dead flat and uniform, and that it sits snugly in the slot without being wedged in.

 

Every new Gibson I’ve ever owned has needed the saddle sorting out in this way. Tape some 1200 grit emery to a glass table and gently work the bottom of it dead flat. Also worth lifting the undersaddle element out to make sure there’s no grit, sawdust or dirt between the pickup and the slot floor.

 

These pickups are finicky to the extreme. This is exactly why I’ve largely moved to soundhole pickups over the last year or so, so much less hassle with string balance and feedback.

 

Jinder, thanks for the Information. I did not even think about this issue but you are right (and have a lot of experience). Will check the saddle + slot floor! Have seen saw dust under the undersaddle element of my Southern Jumbo, there is a certain risk to have it in the SJ200, too.

 

Yes, soundhole pickup would be a solution (BluesKing777 mentioned the same thing). As an "occasionally" live performer I will try to improve the SJ200/Anthem if possible and learn more about the reaction of the system + guitar at higher levels in acoustical difficult rooms before mounting a soundhole pickup. The SJ200 is so nice ...

 

The other solution would be to convince the other musicians to play not so loud - but tell this to people >50 with 30 years Rock´n´Roll in the ears, even an acoustic guitar has to beat you in your stomach .

 

Doc

[Dave F]

First port of call for me would be to whip the saddle out and make sure the bottom of it is dead flat and uniform, and that it sits snugly in the slot without being wedged in.

 

Every new Gibson I’ve ever owned has needed the saddle sorting out in this way. Tape some 1200 grit emery to a glass table and gently work the bottom of it dead flat. Also worth lifting the undersaddle element out to make sure there’s no grit, sawdust or dirt between the pickup and the slot floor.

 

These pickups are finicky to the extreme. This is exactly why I’ve largely moved to soundhole pickups over the last year or so, so much less hassle with string balance and feedback.

I’ve seen them flat but not square to the sides so that’s another watch out. I have a tool that holds them square but before that I would hold them against a squared ground piece of steel when finishing.

[BoSoxBiker]

We have a yearly "jam session + open stage" party together with local musicians of differnt bands. This means a lot of action on stage, and a lot of different instruments to be handled b the mixer/PA. Unfortunatley I am not only playing guitar, but am the PA man, too, which rises the stress level.

 

Signal path for acoustic guitars ist: Guitar --> DI box --> X32 digital mixer --> PA + Monitors (had a LD Systems Maui G2 last time).

 

In principle I do not like the Sound of acoustic guitars coming from pickups, I would prefer a microphone in front of a good acoustic guitar but this is no accepted by the other guitar pickers, mostly with background of rock bands and elecric guitars.

 

Coming to my question. I proudly took my 2016 Gibson SJ200 (Anthem pickup system) to the party and had quite big problems to get a good sound which is worth of this icon of an acoustic guitar. Due to the quick changes of instruments hanging at the same DI box /mixer channel I had problems with the low E and even more with the A-string of my jumbo. The same channel, same EQ settings with other, more "electric-acoustic guitars" like a Maton, Takamine or a Guild worked quite well, as soon as the jumbo was plugged in the E- and A-string have been "overemphazised", A-tring even starting to cause feedback. Of course I have experimented with the mixing between piezo and microphone part of the sound given by the Anthem System, but this did not help. Due to the fact of having rock musicians on stage the loudness level was rather high which made t not easier for me.

 

You can see so many SJ200s in Videos, obviously equipped with Anthem Systems and sounding ok. So I am looking for any advice from guitar pickers playing SJ200/Anthem on stage. I want to keep the pickup System, but maybe there are some experiences with this combination for the use on stage. I have used my J35 and my J45 in similar situations causing less problems which is linked to the body size of the guitar in my opinion.

I have no live stage experience, but I did have an Anthem installed in a Hummingbird and used it for about a month. I also have had an SJ-200 for a few weeks now. I use both in my home project studio located in the smallest, most acoustically challenging room in the house.

 

RE Bass Over-Emphasis: This kind of adds some to what Jinder was saying about the guitar's Anthem installation. I had the tech install the Anthem on a new Hummingbird. I had some boomy-woofy issues on the low end, even with very minimal Piezo dialed in. I had tamed most of it with dynamic notch filters on an Baggs Session DI and Align EQ. 165Hz and 230Hz, IIRC. The 235Hz was very much as much feedback sounding as anything. So I was asking the support person on the LR Baggs' forum about something else. After he listened to my sample, the first thing he advised was to check installation. On page 4 of the installation guide they discuss placement of the piezo wire clip in relation to the bridge. Apparently it wants to be very close to the bridge and to fastion the piezo wire taut and flsuh with the body. In mine, the clip was only an inch away, but I could put my finger between the piezo wire and the guitar wood.

 

With that, I loosened the clip, gently pulled the piezo wire tighter and refastened the clip. The boominess factor noticeably reduced. My memory begins to get fuzzy, but I am pretty sure I still had to manage the low freq feedback as mentioned before. Note that I do not have to do so on the 235Hz frequency when using the Anthem on my SJ.

 

Thinking about it more, I really do suggest trying the Baggs' forum. The support guy that sort of runs the forum is eager to assist.

 

My final thought is probably more obvious than anything to some, but with the Piezo and Mic signal so intertwined, using that screw-driver stick to adjust the mic volume helps a great deal. If you cut half of that volume out, it reduces a whole lot of strong upper mid-range tone. That, in turn, allows/requires you to not have to use so much Piezo. Keep in mind that while the signal coming from the Anthem is low-level volume-wise, it is a very active, aggressively gained tone. Mine did best with the overall volume about 2/3rds, almost no piezo and the mic volume screw somewhere between 40% and 60%.

 

This was all over the place, but I hope something of value lays within. Good luck!

[docr]

I have no live stage experience, but I did have an Anthem installed in a Hummingbird and used it for about a month. I also have had an SJ-200 for a few weeks now. I use both in my home project studio located in the smallest, most acoustically challenging room in the house.

 

RE Bass Over-Emphasis: This kind of adds some to what Jinder was saying about the guitar's Anthem installation. I had the tech install the Anthem on a new Hummingbird. I had some boomy-woofy issues on the low end, even with very minimal Piezo dialed in. I had tamed most of it with dynamic notch filters on an Baggs Session DI and Align EQ. 165Hz and 230Hz, IIRC. The 235Hz was very much as much feedback sounding as anything. So I was asking the support person on the LR Baggs' forum about something else. After he listened to my sample, the first thing he advised was to check installation. On page 4 of the installation guide they discuss placement of the piezo wire clip in relation to the bridge. Apparently it wants to be very close to the bridge and to fastion the piezo wire taut and flsuh with the body. In mine, the clip was only an inch away, but I could put my finger between the piezo wire and the guitar wood.

 

With that, I loosened the clip, gently pulled the piezo wire tighter and refastened the clip. The boominess factor noticeably reduced. My memory begins to get fuzzy, but I am pretty sure I still had to manage the low freq feedback as mentioned before. Note that I do not have to do so on the 235Hz frequency when using the Anthem on my SJ.

 

Thinking about it more, I really do suggest trying the Baggs' forum. The support guy that sort of runs the forum is eager to assist.

 

My final thought is probably more obvious than anything to some, but with the Piezo and Mic signal so intertwined, using that screw-driver stick to adjust the mic volume helps a great deal. If you cut half of that volume out, it reduces a whole lot of strong upper mid-range tone. That, in turn, allows/requires you to not have to use so much Piezo. Keep in mind that while the signal coming from the Anthem is low-level volume-wise, it is a very active, aggressively gained tone. Mine did best with the overall volume about 2/3rds, almost no piezo and the mic volume screw somewhere between 40% and 60%.

 

This was all over the place, but I hope something of value lays within. Good luck!

 

Thank you! A lot of new aspects I´ve got today from all of you, that´s what I like about this forum. I will check all items about installation coming from Jinder and PatriotsBiker and first will replace the "Montana" battery. The L.R.Baggs installation guide shows the clip very good and looking on the physical properties or function of a piezo it is clear that even the mounting will have an influence on feedbacks and/or sensitivity for single frequences, never thought about this. Seems it will be some work for long winter evenings, had the first snow yesterday.

 

Your final thought was one of my thoughts, too. Of course I had no chance to try different settings of the piezo/mic level with the screw driver during the session, could only turn on the "hand wheel" poti of the guitar. So my strategy is to start with the check of saddle, slot and clip. Never thought that a pickup system is depending on so many boundary conditions.Anyhow, the best pickup is no pickup, but this is an unrealistic perception if you want to play in environements louder than in your living room.

[olie]

After reading the above posts I have to say that I'm amazed at the technical compexities of amplifying an "acoustic" guitar. When I read the solutions offered by obviously knowledgeable posters it leads me to think that a degree in electrical engineering or acoustics is necessary. I admire the wealth of experience you guys bring to the subject, but, boy is it confusing to an old Luddite such as me! Jam sessions never seemed that arcane.

Yours in dazed confusion;

Olie.

[blindboygrunt]

After reading the above posts I have to say that I'm amazed at the technical compexities of amplifying an "acoustic" guitar. When I read the solutions offered by obviously knowledgeable posters it leads me to think that a degree in electrical engineering or acoustics is necessary. I admire the wealth of experience you guys bring to the subject, but, boy is it confusing to an old Luddite such as me! Jam sessions never seemed that arcane.

Yours in dazed confusion;

Olie.

 

 

I hear ya

[docr]

After reading the above posts I have to say that I'm amazed at the technical compexities of amplifying an "acoustic" guitar. When I read the solutions offered by obviously knowledgeable posters it leads me to think that a degree in electrical engineering or acoustics is necessary. I admire the wealth of experience you guys bring to the subject, but, boy is it confusing to an old Luddite such as me! Jam sessions never seemed that arcane.

Yours in dazed confusion;

Olie.

 

 

I totally agree - that is a high complexity for a simple thing - playing music with friends, just for fun. My background for starting the topic was just the disappointing experience made during the session as I wanted to bring my nice and for me quite expensive SJ200 with the best result on stage, especially as Gibsons (and Martins) are observed very critically as they could not be seen and heard so often. And yes - "acoustic" and electronic amplification are contradictory.

[BluesKing777]

Thsis video is a good demo and discussion (Baggs Align pedal with Anthem SL)...the bass cut feature would stop the boom and bloom...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[docr]

Thsis video is a good demo and discussion (Baggs Align pedal with Anthem SL)...the bass cut feature would stop the boom and bloom...

 

 

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

BluesKing777 - Thank you for the link. Yes, it´s going in the direction I´m looking for and it´s good to hear what the pedal makes with the signal. There was a test report about the 4 (new?) L.R.Baggs pedals in a local guitar magazine, but the EQ alone would be enough for me. Have to check the other L.R.Baggs Equipment which is going in the direction "active DI bos + additional features". They cost some money, but Christmas is coming

[docr]

First port of call for me would be to whip the saddle out and make sure the bottom of it is dead flat and uniform, and that it sits snugly in the slot without being wedged in.

 

Every new Gibson I’ve ever owned has needed the saddle sorting out in this way. Tape some 1200 grit emery to a glass table and gently work the bottom of it dead flat. Also worth lifting the undersaddle element out to make sure there’s no grit, sawdust or dirt between the pickup and the slot floor.

 

These pickups are finicky to the extreme. This is exactly why I’ve largely moved to soundhole pickups over the last year or so, so much less hassle with string balance and feedback.

 

Jinder, thank you for the hint. The saddle was perfect, but under the undersaddle-element was a particle in the area of the A-string. Situation is much better now and the SJ 200 is much easier to amplify.

 

Doc

[QuestionMark]

I’ve run my sound system periodically for events or other performers. I always start of with the bass, midrange, and treble on the line in to the sound board directly in the middle, so I can quickly turn the bass up a smidgen or down a lot as need be. Or leave it in the middle. Same with the treble, I can quickly turn the treble down or up. And, with some guitars, I can quickly turn both the bass and treble down, which sometimes defies surface logic, but it allows me then to slowly creep either the treble or bass up as needed. I generally ask each performer to first quickly give me a quick strum on their instrument so I can quickly adjust the bass (usually down, but not always.) I also tell all the players ahead of time that since there is no sound check that I will be adjusting their sound as they perform on the fly so there are surprises. After awhile I can begin to spot which guitars by model will need less bass or less treble . Or, will need more or less volume.

 

But, usually if I reset the controls on the board to the middle after each performer, I can quickly fine tune the sound or leave it in the middle of it immediately works.

 

Just my experience.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff