j45nick Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) This topic has been discussed a lot here, but this Stewmac video is a good start-to-finish summary of the job. The process is exactly the same on virtually any Gibson, despite the fact that the guitar shown is a mid-60s ES-335 block neck with Bigsby. The guitar, by the way, is pretty valuable, with the exact value depending on the year. If the knobs are correct, it is probably a '63 or '64, and the guitar would be a sister to the guitar Clapton used in the early Cream period, notably on Crossroads. As mentioned in this video, in the mid-1960s, a lot of us Gibson owners got rid of the original Kluson tuners and replaced them with Rotomatics. In 1967, I had a college room mate with a D-18 with Rotomatics, and I was jealous of the way they seemed to hold tune compare to the sloppy 1950 Klusons on my J-45. Fortunately, I did not have the money to put on a set of Rotomatics, but did put on a set of Grover Sta-Tite 97s, which are now a part of that guitar's history more than 50 years later. They also look a heck of a lot better than the Rotomatics I wanted to put on. You can see the Sta-Tites in my avatar photo. tuner swap Edited February 23, 2021 by j45nick added additional thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75 Hummingbird Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 I'm in the process of replacing the original tuners on my 1975 J-50 with a set of Grovers. The original "Gibson" tuners, (Klusons ?) hold the tune very well, but are hard to turn...and my arthritic hands ache each time I tune it. I'm hoping the Grovers will do better, (no issues on my other guitars with Grovers on them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 5 hours ago, DanvillRob said: I'm in the process of replacing the original tuners on my 1975 J-50 with a set of Grovers. The original "Gibson" tuners, (Klusons ?) hold the tune very well, but are hard to turn...and my arthritic hands ache each time I tune it. I'm hoping the Grovers will do better, (no issues on my other guitars with Grovers on them). Most modern tuners have a higher gear ratio (15:1 or 18:1) than your old tuners, which may be 12:1. Look for a higher gear gear ratio, as much as anything. Rotomatics have much bigger "buttons" on them than most, which may be easier for you to grasp if your hands have trouble gripping. Rotomatics are heavier than many tuners, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Look for the 18:1 Grovers. Packaging is almost identical, but notes the ratio specifically. Also, there’s a vast assortment of Hipshot buttons available that will fit Grovers - so you can go with larger or smaller buttons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 7 hours ago, DanvillRob said: I'm in the process of replacing the original tuners on my 1975 J-50 with a set of Grovers. The original "Gibson" tuners, (Klusons ?) hold the tune very well, but are hard to turn...and my arthritic hands ache each time I tune it. I'm hoping the Grovers will do better, (no issues on my other guitars with Grovers on them). I know what you mean, I'm going through the same thing with my hands. If I'm going to have problems turning a tuner, it seems to be the G string. Some tuners just seem to have problems with that string. A new guitar I recently bought had this issue right out of the box. I replaced the set with cosmetically same Waverly's. This isn't the first time I used Waverly's for replacements and they worked every time. I've never had issues with the Grovers either. If you wanted a gold set, I could hook you up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatgumbino Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 18 hours ago, bobouz said: Look for the 18:1 Grovers. Packaging is almost identical, but notes the ratio specifically. Also, there’s a vast assortment of Hipshot buttons available that will fit Grovers - so you can go with larger or smaller buttons. Just a heads up, I tried replacing the gold tulip buttons on my Grover Rotomatic Keystone 102 tuners with the "pearl" Hipshot buttons to try to recreate the green tulips without changing tuners. Seemed like a no brainer for $20. It didn't work out for me. The Hipshot screws are longer than the stock screws to accomodate the longer Hipshot buttons. For whatever reason, this change creates an issue where the black part of the sealed Grover tuner is forced out of the tuner when turned past a certain point, at which time the purchase length of the tuner shaft changes and there isn't enough for the Hipshot button to grab. This results in the Hipshot button twisting around the tuner shaft without adjusting the tuner. Also, if you use gold tuners, the Hipshot buttons only come with chrome screws, which isn't a deal breaker, but it did take a minute to get used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 1 hour ago, thegreatgumbino said: Just a heads up, I tried replacing the gold tulip buttons on my Grover Rotomatic Keystone 102 tuners with the "pearl" Hipshot buttons to try to recreate the green tulips without changing tuners. Seemed like a no brainer for $20. It didn't work out for me. The Hipshot screws are longer than the stock screws to accomodate the longer Hipshot buttons. For whatever reason, this change creates an issue where the black part of the sealed Grover tuner is forced out of the tuner when turned past a certain point, at which time the purchase length of the tuner shaft changes and there isn't enough for the Hipshot button to grab. This results in the Hipshot button twisting around the tuner shaft without adjusting the tuner. Also, if you use gold tuners, the Hipshot buttons only come with chrome screws, which isn't a deal breaker, but it did take a minute to get used to. Hmm, I’ve changed out quite a few Grover buttons for Hipshots on both regular & mini rotomatics without issues - but one time (pearl tulips to minis) the supplied screws weren’t long enough & I managed to find what I needed at the hardware store. Sorry it didn’t work out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegreatgumbino Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 On 3/19/2021 at 5:24 PM, bobouz said: Hmm, I’ve changed out quite a few Grover buttons for Hipshots on both regular & mini rotomatics without issues - but one time (pearl tulips to minis) the supplied screws weren’t long enough & I managed to find what I needed at the hardware store. Sorry it didn’t work out for you. Not saying it doesn't work for some. I read it worked before trying and was surprised it didn't for my guitar. It was more surprising I didn't find anything about this issue in a google search. Just $0.02 update to make folks aware of my results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erin_Jacob Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 On 2/23/2021 at 3:49 PM, j45nick said: This topic has been discussed a lot here, but this Stewmac video is a good start-to-finish summary of the job. The process is exactly the same on virtually any Gibson, despite the fact that the guitar shown is a mid-60s ES-335 block neck with Bigsby. The guitar, by the way, is pretty valuable, with the exact value depending on the year. If the knobs are correct, it is probably a '63 or '64, and the guitar would be a sister to the guitar Clapton used in the early Cream period, notably on Crossroads. As mentioned in this video, in the mid-1960s, a lot of us Gibson owners got rid of the original Kluson tuners and replaced them with Rotomatics. In 1967, I had a college room mate with a D-18 with Rotomatics, and I was jealous of the way they seemed to hold tune compare to the sloppy 1950 Klusons on my J-45. Fortunately, I did not have the money to put on a set of Rotomatics, but did put on a set of Grover Sta-Tite 97s, which are now a part of that guitar's history more than 50 years later. They also look a heck of a lot better than the Rotomatics I wanted to put on. You can see the Sta-Tites in my avatar photo. tuner swap Swapping tuners on a guitar is a cool project! When it comes to my studies, it's been quite a journey. I've been tackling an MBA, and it's no walk in the park. One of the challenges I face is finding the right balance between work, family, and assignments. It's like spinning plates sometimes, you know? To help improve my grades and manage the workload, I've turned to EduBirdie's service https://essays.edubirdie.com/mba-assignment-help and their expert guidance has made a big difference in my assignments. So, as we're talking about guitar tuners, it's awesome to see a community where folks discuss not only hobbies but also the ups and downs of studying. What about you all? What kind of study challenges are you dealing with, and how do you tackle them? I completely understand the desire to keep older guitar parts. It's almost like saving a piece of musical history. Those Grover Sta-Tite 97s are not only practical, but they also look excellent - aesthetics may be just as important as function, especially on vintage guitars. Thank you for providing the Stewmac video; it's a great resource for anyone trying to learn how to change tuners on a Gibson. It's amazing how minor tweaks can have such a big impact on the playability and tone of a guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 On 3/18/2021 at 1:21 PM, DanvillRob said: I'm in the process of replacing the original tuners on my 1975 J-50 with a set of Grovers. The original "Gibson" tuners, (Klusons ?) hold the tune very well, but are hard to turn...and my arthritic hands ache each time I tune it. I'm hoping the Grovers will do better, (no issues on my other guitars with Grovers on them). I always liked the gold Grovers on my J-45. Smooth, accurate. I never noticed them being heavy. My J-15 has the "mini" Grovers and they work fine, but they are noticeably smaller when switching back and forth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Murph said: I always liked the gold Grovers on my J-45. Smooth, accurate. I never noticed them being heavy. My J-15 has the "mini" Grovers and they work fine, but they are noticeably smaller when switching back and forth. I really like the Gold Grovers on my J-50. Far easier to turn. I have the original 3-on-a-plate Klusons on my Jubilee, and they're fine even though the guitar is very old and abused, they work just fine. I have the mini-Grovers on the 12-String.... the headstock is large enough to land a small plane on, but I never noticed it being 'out of balance' for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J185cat Posted October 26, 2023 Share Posted October 26, 2023 On 10/19/2023 at 10:53 AM, DanvillRob said: I really like the Gold Grovers on my J-50. Far easier to turn. I have the original 3-on-a-plate Klusons on my Jubilee, and they're fine even though the guitar is very old and abused, they work just fine. I have the mini-Grovers on the 12-String.... the headstock is large enough to land a small plane on, but I never noticed it being 'out of balance' for me. You know I have changed my opinion about the Grovers over time. At first I was put off some by their size but they really are smooth to operate and I don’t even think about them anymore. They hold tune very well also. My favorites are my Waverly’s but that is a different animal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie Posted October 27, 2023 Share Posted October 27, 2023 I think that Grovers got a bad rap because of their "inferior esthetics", not their accuracy. They are a solid tuner set up and might just be underrated by the people who play with their eyes. Okay; they're heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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