L-00 Problem

[jheath]

Folks, I have a pretty serious problem with vintage L-00's.  The problem is, I want one REALLY BAD and have missed a couple of beauties that were for sale recently and now I can't stop thinking about them.  The other problem is, I ordered what will be arguably an INCREDIBLE boutique built replica from Dale Fairbanks a couple of months ago but it's still many months out.  I live near Folkway Music in Canada and they get a lot of special stuff, including 2 twelve fret 32's that have been sold the minute they hit social media or their website.   They've also become super expensive, so it might require selling a couple to actually be able to buy one, but the realities of this are not hampering my enthusiasm.  

Considering one of the store brands / off brands (Kalamazoo, etc.) but haven't found anything just yet.  

This is obviously not a REAL problem, as I have many beautiful acoustics, including a vintage J45, a J100 and Martins and other brands, so not hurting for playable boxes around here.  

Just thought I'd share, I'm sure many here find themselves in similar positions for other guitars.  But an early 30's L-00 is my current fixation 

[Dave F]

The Fairbanks one sounds good.

I don't have a vintage one but I have a few modern ones. Gibson '32 L00 Reissue, Gibson NL 12 Fret Mystic Rosewood, Gibson M2M 12 fret L00 RW aged top. Custom Zeiler L00 Duane Allman Georgia Peach. Alvarez Parlor (identical to L00 body)  12 fret slot head.

Here's a vintage one on EBay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275310861350

1930's Gibson L-00 Acoustic Guitar Sunburst Pre War L00 Circa 1933-1936 Vintage

Edited May 16, 2022 by Dave F

[zombywoof]

As most here already know I own a 1932 12 fret L1.  As is the case with every Gibson in the house I did not find it.  It found me.  I was sitting at home not even thinking about buying a guitar never mind a specific one when I got a call from a friend who owns a small music shop who says he had gotten one in and if I wanted to make it mine all I needed to do was speak the magic words.  As my mother did not raise a foolish child, "Hell Yeah," said I.  Amazing beast it be.  Built so lightly you barely have to breathe on it to get a good sound. 

As to Fairbanks guitars I also own a 2013 F30 Roy Smeck.   Dale absolutely nails Old School Gibson tone but combines it with a build quality Kalamazoo could only have dreamed of.  

The one guitar though I would love to get a chance to kick the tires of is a Waterloo WL-K.  This is Collings take on a Kel Kroyden but with a truss rod.  What piques my interest is the guitar clocks in at around 2 3/4 pounds so pretty much spot on for an early-1930s Gibson L series instrument.  The model in fact comes with a warning to go with nothing heavier than 11-52 gauge strings which is a  way of life with the original Gibson 12 fretters,

[jheath]

3 hours ago, Dave F said:

The Fairbanks one sounds good.

I don't have a vintage one but I have a few modern ones. Gibson '32 L00 Reissue, Gibson NL 12 Fret Mystic Rosewood, Gibson M2M 12 fret L00 RW aged top. Custom Zeiler L00 Duane Allman Georgia Peach. Alvarez Parlor (identical to L00 body)  12 fret slot head.

Here's a vintage one on EBay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275310861350

1930's Gibson L-00 Acoustic Guitar Sunburst Pre War L00 Circa 1933-1936 Vintage

Thanks Dave - I feel like if I bought one sight unseen I'd have to have an incredible amount of trust in the source.  Having paid the bill on a reset / refret and other structural work on an old Gibson, I'd really need to feel confident that I was getting enough of a deal on it to absorb the costs if needed.  Glad you're enjoying your newer ones, maybe I'll try a few out and see if it scratches the itch for now.  

[jheath]

2 hours ago, zombywoof said:

As most here already know I own a 1932 12 fret L1.  As is the case with every Gibson in the house I did not find it.  It found me.  I was sitting at home not even thinking about buying a guitar never mind a specific one when I got a call from a friend who owns a small music shop who says he had gotten one in and if I wanted to make it mine all I needed to do was speak the magic words.  As my mother did not raise a foolish child, "Hell Yeah," said I.  Amazing beast it be.  Built so lightly you barely have to breathe on it to get a good sound. 

As to Fairbanks guitars I also own a 2013 F30 Roy Smeck.   Dale absolutely nails Old School Gibson tone but combines it with a build quality Kalamazoo could only have dreamed of.  

The one guitar though I would love to get a chance to kick the tires of is a Waterloo WL-K.  This is Collings take on a Kel Kroyden but with a truss rod.  What piques my interest is the guitar clocks in at around 2 3/4 pounds so pretty much spot on for an early-1930s Gibson L series instrument.  The model in fact comes with a warning to go with nothing heavier than 11-52 gauge strings which is a  way of life with the original Gibson 12 fretters,

Thanks Zomby - I bet that L1 is a beast.  I've played a couple of 32 and 33 L-00's and I just can't believe the sound that comes out of them given the size.  They're just alive and focused and so responsive.   Maybe it's just my relative want but the super old, dry wood sound is what I get from them (and my old J45) and that's what I'm looking for.  Congrats on yours.  

I have no doubt the Fairbanks will be a wonderful guitar.  I got a chance to play one before it sold and couldn't get it out of my head so requested Dale build another exactly the same.  It's based on a '33 14 fret with Tuxedo finish.  I'd imagine if I had it already, my current vintage lust wouldn't be peaking quite as much. 

I've played a WL-K but only really briefly and had a ladder braced WL14 for a short time.   Probably would've kept it if it was X braced.  

[j45nick]

I looked at vintage L-00s for close to two years. I got frustrated with guitar after guitar that had one issue or another.

Finally bought a 2010 L-00 Legend.  identical construction to the "original" ones down to the fabric inner side stays,  Adi top, and all hide glue construction, but without all the issues I found in most of the vintage ones.

I love vintage guitars, and have two 1950 J-45s. But I simply could not find a vintage L-00 that ticked all the boxes.

Gibson has done some outstanding L-00 re-issues in the last 10 years or so.

[BluesKing777]

 

 

So not really a Gibson L-00 problem, you just want a 32.....😁

Just buy this one:

 

https://thenorthamericanguitar.com/products/gibson-l-0-mahogany-pre-owned

 

 

 

https://reverb.com/item/47628801-gibson-l-00-1932-black

 

or this one:

 

https://reverb.com/item/48754937-1933-gibson-l-00-untouched-sunburst

 

 

or this one:

 

https://reverb.com/item/53206059-gibson-l-00-1933-small-sunburst-fire-stripe

 

 

BluesKing777

 

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by BluesKing777

[jedzep]

My '36 and '35 continue to beckon from their wall hangers.  I was lucky when I stumbled on to them, before the market went nuts.

[jheath]

12 hours ago, j45nick said:

I looked at vintage L-00s for close to two years. I got frustrated with guitar after guitar that had one issue or another.

Finally bought a 2010 L-00 Legend.  identical construction to the "original" ones down to the fabric inner side stays,  Adi top, and all hide glue construction, but without all the issues I found in most of the vintage ones.

I love vintage guitars, and have two 1950 J-45s. But I simply could not find a vintage L-00 that ticked all the boxes.

Gibson has done some outstanding L-00 re-issues in the last 10 years or so.

I forgot about those Legends guitars - pretty rare but I'm sure are pretty close to the originals.   I have played a couple 32's and a 33 in the last few months, all from a very reputable shop where they've been repaired / reset or setup as necessary and would have felt very confident based on the shop's reputation as well as work they've done for me that I was getting a good, stable guitar.  But both of 32's were sold or on hold prior to me getting to them and the '33 was awaiting a reset.   I'll keep an eye out for some of the newer versions and see if I can play a few. 

[jheath]

12 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

 

So not really a Gibson L-00 problem, you just want a 32.....😁

Just buy this one:

 

https://thenorthamericanguitar.com/products/gibson-l-0-mahogany-pre-owned

 

 

 

https://reverb.com/item/47628801-gibson-l-00-1932-black

 

or this one:

 

https://reverb.com/item/48754937-1933-gibson-l-00-untouched-sunburst

 

 

or this one:

 

https://reverb.com/item/53206059-gibson-l-00-1933-small-sunburst-fire-stripe

 

 

BluesKing777

 

 

I've seen most of those ones on Reverb and I know they're an option, most specifically the two at Dayton Vintage Guitars and Amps.  I am curious as to why they're still around, although they appear to be at the top of the price bracket.  

[zombywoof]

14 hours ago, j45nick said:

I looked at vintage L-00s for close to two years. I got frustrated with guitar after guitar that had one issue or another.

Finally bought a 2010 L-00 Legend.  identical construction to the "original" ones down to the fabric inner side stays,  Adi top, and all hide glue construction, but without all the issues I found in most of the vintage ones.

I love vintage guitars, and have two 1950 J-45s. But I simply could not find a vintage L-00 that ticked all the boxes.

Gibson has done some outstanding L-00 re-issues in the last 10 years or so.

If I recall properly the first 1937 L00 Legend came out as a very limited run in 2007 or 2008.  I think production kicked in again around 2010 which while still limited in numbers had a longer run.

My take on it is Ren knew exactly what he was doing by going with a 1937 guitar to copy.  I have always had the impression, whether right or wrong, that through the 1930s Gibson was learning how to build a flattop guitar as well as to cut costs where they could.  There was the transition from "H" and "A" bracing to "X",  the adoption of 14 frets as a standard, the shift from hand rubbed lacquer to full sprayed lacquer finishes, and so on.  Another aspect of this learning curve though was how to build a smaller body guitar which could survive.  So by the time you get to 1937 tops, bridge plates and other build features had been thickened up.  

The point of this ramble going with a 1937 L00 to copy was the perfect choice.  The guitars featured a build which was light enough to respond like a drum skin when tapped but not so lightly built that they would be showing back up under warranty when somebody slapped anything on them heavier than 11 gauge strings.  Based on what I have read here, I gather 1932 and Vintage  L00s are in the same boat.  

Edited May 17, 2022 by zombywoof

[BluesKing777]

19 hours ago, zombywoof said:

If I recall properly the first 1937 L00 Legend came out as a very limited run in 2007 or 2008.  I think production kicked in again around 2010 which while still limited in numbers had a longer run.

My take on it is Ren knew exactly what he was doing by going with a 1937 guitar to copy.  I have always had the impression, whether right or wrong, that through the 1930s Gibson was learning how to build a flattop guitar as well as to cut costs where they could.  There was the transition from "H" and "A" bracing to "X",  the adoption of 14 frets as a standard, the shift from hand rubbed lacquer to full sprayed lacquer finishes, and so on.  Another aspect of this learning curve though was how to build a smaller body guitar which could survive.  So by the time you get to 1937 tops, bridge plates and other build features had been thickened up.  

The point of this ramble going with a 1937 L00 to copy was the perfect choice.  The guitars featured a build which was light enough to respond like a drum skin when tapped but not so lightly built that they would be showing back up under warranty when somebody slapped anything on them heavier than 11 gauge strings.  Based on what I have read here, I gather 1932 and Vintage  L00s are in the same boat.  

 

Ha ha ha, my Ole L-0 is....1937!

Now the love is because the 37 is so dry, woody and......dusty?

Did Ren make ‘dry’ or ‘damp’ or even ‘wet’?

My Waterloos are both dry, for example, while my Cargill custom 00 in ebony on Italian Spruce is full wet dripping with overtones!

Where does the L-00 Legend sit?

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[Murph]

When I lived in Arizona, everything was dry.

[zombywoof]

3 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

Ha ha ha, my Ole L-0 is....1937!

Now the love is because the 37 is so dry, woody and......dusty?

Did Ren make ‘dry’ or ‘damp’ or even ‘wet’?

My Waterloos are both dry, for example, while my Cargill custom 00 in ebony on Italian Spruce is full wet dripping with overtones!

Where does the L-00 Legend sit?

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

I figure all guitars are born "wet."  If there were not nobody in their right mind would pay the rather hefty upcharge for torrified tops.

Edited May 18, 2022 by zombywoof

[BluesKing777]

12 hours ago, zombywoof said:

I figure all guitars are born "wet."  If there were not nobody in their right mind would pay the rather hefty upcharge for torrified tops.

 

Both my Waterloos were born 'dry', thin finish that broke in very quickly...I have said it a few times here - they sound older than my old guitars. Don't know how Bill did that....

(For me, 'dry and woody' is better for fingerpicking blues, even better with the Waterloo ladder braced - but I don't mean the guitar is physically drying out - I mean the sound.)

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by BluesKing777

[BluesKing777]

Further on the 'dry' sound...

 

The video with the F/S 1930 Gibson L-0 mahogany above has what I would call a dry sound:

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

[jedzep]

Got a lump in my throat.  Thought for a moment it was the one I sold.  Shouldn't have looked.

[zombywoof]

12 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

Both my Waterloos were born 'dry', thin finish that broke in very quickly...I have said it a few times here - they sound older than my old guitars. Don't know how Bill did that....

(For me, 'dry and woody' is better for fingerpicking blues, even better with the Waterloo ladder braced - but I don't mean the guitar is physically drying out - I mean the sound.)

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Yeah, it is common to see guitars like your Waterloos and my Fairbanks described as has having a dry sound.  But I have also seen them described as still lacking one thing which is that parched dryness that only comes with 80 years of playing.  While I cannot speak from experience, I gather this is the benefit of paying the rather hefty upcharge for the baked tops which are said to get you 75% of the way there.  So, the way I look at it is my Fairbanks probably sounds like a Roy Smeck did when it was new.  Hey, who is around to say I am wrong?  Once you hit a certain age though, that instant gratification thing hits you like a flying mallet because you realize you do not have the time to wait on the guitar.

[jheath]

11 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

Further on the 'dry' sound...

 

The video with the F/S 1930 Gibson L-0 mahogany above has what I would call a dry sound:

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

This is exactly where my lust lies - old, dry, punchy, battle scars and all (real ones, not ones put on on purpose).   The lust continues....

[BluesKing777]

5 hours ago, jheath said:

This is exactly where my lust lies - old, dry, punchy, battle scars and all (real ones, not ones put on on purpose).   The lust continues....

Buy that one above, then!

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[BluesKing777]

9 hours ago, zombywoof said:

Yeah, it is common to see guitars like your Waterloos and my Fairbanks described as has having a dry sound.  But I have also seen them described as still lacking one thing which is that parched dryness that only comes with 80 years of playing.  While I cannot speak from experience, I gather this is the benefit of paying the rather hefty upcharge for the baked tops which are said to get you 75% of the way there.  So, the way I look at it is my Fairbanks probably sounds like a Roy Smeck did when it was new.  Hey, who is around to say I am wrong?  Once you hit a certain age though, that instant gratification thing hits you like a flying mallet because you realize you do not have the time to wait on the guitar.

 

The torrefied tops will only get you a bit of the way - the rest of the guitar is brand new! (I have the Martin OM-18 Authentic.)

Nothing for it really but to buy the old one if you think you are getting too old.

The only torrefied mahogany top that I have heard of is the recently de-listed Martin 00-17 Authentic, and only a few torrefy the whole guitar.

I had the Waterloo all mahogany based on the Gibson L-0 like above in my hot little hands a few years ago .and...didn't have the cash! Should have traded in a kidney - they have become as scarce as the Gibsons...

Anyway, being a long time L-00 fan and buyer, I have it covered pretty much! I keep buying versions of the same guitar.

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by BluesKing777

[j45nick]

28 minutes ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

 

Anyway, being a long time L-00 fan and buyer, I have it covered pretty much! I keep buying versions of the same guitar.

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Sounds like me with 'hog slope-J versions.

They all sound similar, but certainly not identical.

[jedzep]

I seem to drift toward the 0/00 size and sound too, as I settle in to the guitars I just seem to pick up and play more.  My lone dread is the J50, which still has a great reserved dry woody tone, not a 'banjo killer' for sure, but it is my connection to that sound.

I still need to keep the gooey warmth of my Martins around for the counterpoint.

Edited May 19, 2022 by jedzep

[zombywoof]

1 hour ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

The torrefied tops will only get you a bit of the way - the rest of the guitar is brand new! (I have the Martin OM-18 Authentic.)

Nothing for it really but to buy the old one if you think you are getting too old.

The only torrefied mahogany top that I have heard of is the recently de-listed Martin 00-17 Authentic, and only a few torrefy the whole guitar.

I had the Waterloo all mahogany based on the Gibson L-0 like above in my hot little hands a few years ago .and...didn't have the cash! Should have traded in a kidney - they have become as scarce as the Gibsons...

Anyway, being a long time L-00 fan and buyer, I have it covered pretty much! I keep buying versions of the same guitar.

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

I feel that I have been honored to have been allowed to own some of the guitars I have,  Not sure though I am ready to acquire anything else. That 1920 L3 just about drove me crazy.  We spent well over a year circling each other as I tried to figure it out.  I swear that guitar was  taunting me, daring me to put away my usual musical fare and play something it felt it was worthy of.  More than once I opened the case and gave the guitar the stink eye telling it "OK buddy, you are trade bait."  Then one day I picked the Gibson up and not really thinking about it launched into Etta Baker's "One Dime Blues."  All of a sudden I heard that sound which I had heard on 78 rpm records.  Me and the Gibson are now getting along fine thank you.  But I am also not sure I can put myself though that again.  So I am just going to stick with what I got.

Edited May 19, 2022 by zombywoof

[BluesKing777]

16 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

I feel that I have been honored to have been allowed to own some of the guitars I have,  Not sure though I am ready to acquire anything else. That 1920 L3 just about drove me crazy.  We spent well over a year circling each other as I tried to figure it out.  I swear that guitar was  taunting me, daring me to put away my usual musical fare and play something it felt it was worthy of.  More than once I opened the case and gave the guitar the stink eye telling it "OK buddy, you are trade bait."  Then one day I picked the Gibson up and not really thinking about it launched into Etta Baker's "One Dime Blues."  All of a sudden I heard that sound which I had heard on 78 rpm records.  Me and the Gibson are now getting along fine thank you.  But I am also not sure I can put myself though that again.  So I am just going to stick with what I got.

 

Is there a reason they decided to put a soundhole in those archtops instead of the usual arch ...err....   top?

(My 35 Gibson Black Special #4 has that kind of 78 rpm sound - better drag it out on the weekend - fantastic V neck!!!).

 

BluesKing777.