johnwilson09 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Hi There! I'm trying to decide between the Hummingbird and the J45 / Southern Jumbo for my particular usage. A lot of singer / songwriter type stuff but I play a lot of fingerstyle (James Taylor type stuff) for that. My goal would be for it to be a great fingerstyle guitar while also easily handling flatpicking. I know James played a J50 at one point so there's that. I'd love to hear some thoughts from the community about which would be best suited. My only concern about the hummingbird is volume, which I think might work in the J45's favor for fingerstyle. I couldn't find a hummingbird from gibson locally but I tried an Epiphone one and my impression was that it seemed a little quiet for lighter playing but it could have just been partly due to the setup. Thoughts? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) I am not going to be much help here. I own an L1 and a J50 (and have owned an LG2 and a Southerner Jumbo) while my wife has been happily settled in with a J200 for maybe 20 years. When my wife plays them, they are all great strummers. When I play them, they are all great fingerpickers. Funny how that works isn't it? The wild card though would be the Hummingbird as a square should Gibson has yet been able to wiggle its way into the fold. Edited March 3, 2023 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J185cat Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 I have a Bird and two J45’s. I absolutely love the Bird but if versatility is the objective I would say maybe a J45. I know this is not much help but honestly I believe either could work. My HB does not have the same volume as the J45 but that may be a perception of how they both project. if at all possible find a Gibson HB and try it. They really can be smooth mellow guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 2 hours ago, J185cat said: I have a Bird and two J45’s. I absolutely love the Bird but if versatility is the objective I would say maybe a J45. So do I - and my recommendation would be the J-45. I lOVE my Birds, but the slope has a 'deeper more roomy projection' that makes it excellent for fingerpicking. If Mr. Wilson strummed a lot the Bird would be my suggestion because it's so defined. This guy chose the opposite - bless him Have to add I finger-pick my Birds also. All in all do a lot with them - but perhaps on their conditions, , , and never in acoustic jams with others. Too delicate > 🧡 < Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J185cat Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 1 hour ago, E-minor7 said: So do I - and my recommendation would be the J-45. I lOVE my Birds, but the slope has a 'deeper more roomy projection' that makes it excellent for fingerpicking. If Mr. Wilson strummed a lot the Bird would be my suggestion because it's so defined. This guy chose the opposite - bless him Have to add I finger-pick my Birds also. All in all do a lot with them - but perhaps on their conditions, , , and never in acoustic jams with others. Too delicate > 🧡 < Exactly. The Bird for me is such an addictive experience but I know it does not fill every need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwilson09 Posted March 4, 2023 Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 This is some great feedback -- thank you all so much for all the feedback so far! I meant to ask this in my original post, but I've had a salesperson I spoke to at S********* recommend the SJ-200 for my use case. I think the SJs are beautiful but $$. Possible however. I believe the concept was that the waist of the SJ gives it a little more projection under a lighter touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J185cat Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 Unfortunately I don’t have any experience with a J200 but many on here do. One comment I hear from those forum members is that they j200 is not nearly as loud a guitar as you would think, if that matters. I know one thing, I LOVE the sound of them on recordings where they are used. Hopefully, some of our J200 guys will chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 2 hours ago, E-minor7 said: So do I - and my recommendation would be the J-45. I lOVE my Birds, but the slope has a 'deeper more roomy projection' that makes it excellent for fingerpicking. Have to add I finger-pick my Birds also. All in all do a lot with them - but perhaps on their conditions, , , and never in acoustic jams with others. Too delicate > 🧡 < My experience has been the opposite- Roomy? Imhop, the square shoulders of the Hummingbird lend a deeper, roomier(?) sound. And as far as the 'Bird being too delicate?- this only emphasizes how much things such as nut and saddle come into play, when you find a guitar with a setup and neck profile that's a perfect fit for how you want to play. Sometimes the combination of all the above is able to neutralize any differences between the Hummingbird and the J-45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaldreedle Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 Can I add confusion to say that I love my Southern Jumbo and when I compared it to the J45 in the store it was much more versatile and better at fingerpicking and flat picking, it had a more articulate tone while not taking over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 I’m in the J45 camp? I think only because you mentioned part of your wants is to flatpick on your choice. I think every time someone flatpicks a Bird, an angel loses… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 10 hours ago, 62burst said: My experience has been the opposite- Roomy? Imhop, the square shoulders of the Hummingbird lend a deeper, roomier(?) sound. And as far as the 'Bird being too delicate?- this only emphasizes how much things such as nut and saddle come into play, when you find a guitar with a setup and neck profile that's a perfect fit for how you want to play. Sometimes the combination of all the above is able to neutralize any differences between the Hummingbird and the J-45. Ooohh, , , it's now we have to careful not to confuse roomy with boomy. 🤣 I seriously believe the contemporary Birds/CWs are sounding as if their bodies weren't as deep as the slopes. Somehow tighter, more defined - clearer. Maybe as if their ancestors were archtops. Yes, I know it gets hard to exchange words about this, but what can forumites do !? Here is a test-film that speaks my case. It's been exposed on these pages before (remember Grunt went for the 45 without hesitation) - and still provides the same story. Would you do me the favor of listening carefully, then tell if this makes any sense. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 Opinions are like....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 .... sound holes, every guitar has one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 40 minutes ago, E-minor7 said: Ooohh, , , it's now we have to careful not to confuse roomy with boomy. 🤣 Would you do me the favor of listening carefully, then tell if this makes any sense. . . Roomy vs boomy. . . good one. Yes, that's a good clip- and the H-bird does sound lighter in those samples, for the most part. Strange, though, since guitars with smaller bodies tend to project better. Could be the X-factor. . . gotta watch out for that. 15 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said: .... sound holes, every guitar has one. Yeah, I guess we had that comin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 The J45 (and it's cousin the Southern Jumbo) and the H'Bird (and it's cousin the Country Western) vary significantly in specs over the decades. At one point, the J45 was even a square shoulder. So, anyone asking for guidance on 'which is better for me' needs to specify which era. Easier to take an A/B snapshot of what is currently being built than a 30 year old J45 compared to a 10 year old H'Bird. And, to base an opinion based on two indistinct models played in a store 5 years ago ... well, they both had sound holes! My experience with mine is irrelevant because one has koa b/s and one is a TV. But - they are clearly different. With different setups and different strings. My only observation would be - the H'bird costs more, looks nicer but the J45 outsells it, I'd guess 10 to 1. I think someone who loves acoustics would get really happy real quick, for a long time purchasing either one. Sort of a 'Me love you long time, Joe - want a happy ending?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 What is missing in all of these opinions is the one thing which for me separates at least a passable feeling fingerpicker from a comfy feeling fingerpicker. And that is string spacing at the bridge. It is not that I cannot or in fact do not play guitars with a skimpier spacing. I simply prefer instruments which sport either a 2 5/16" or 2 3/8" spacing at the bridge. So, when I finally decided it was time to buy at least a newish guitar one of the reasons I opted for a Fairbanks instead of a Gibson came down to the guitar having a period correct 1930s 2 3/8" spread at the bridge . Again, no rule book to follow or anything better about it all. But you will also never know what works best for you until you have experienced all that is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, zombywoof said: What is missing in all of these opinions is the one thing which for me separates at least a passable feeling fingerpicker from a comfy feeling fingerpicker. And that is string spacing at the bridge. It is not that I cannot or in fact do not play guitars with a skimpier spacing. I simply prefer instruments which sport either a 2 5/16" or 2 3/8" spacing at the bridge. I'm sure an early 60s Hummingbird-Southern Jumbo-Country-Western would do you good. Remember the spacing at the nut can be widened. The circumstances by the bridge you could get used to. 31 minutes ago, 62burst said: Yes, that's a good clip- and the H-bird does sound lighter in those samples, for the most part. Strange, though, since guitars with smaller bodies tend to project better. Could be the X-factor. . . gotta watch out for that. The heavy researcher here, (who according to Sal qualifies as an Inspector), went through endless A/Bs and try-outs the last more than 12 years. Assure you there is a pattern. However it isn't expected of you to follow the thought as I know you have quite a lot experience yourself. Can I ask : How many hog-squares & slopes did you own over time. And didn't you end up with a rosewood Bird (sorry can't recall if there is another - but know U took interest in the maple-version). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 (edited) I have three mahogany slope-Js: two 1950 J-45s, and a 1943 SJ re-issue. They are about as versatile as you can get, great for both fingerpicking and flatpicking. Despite the same wood combinations and body style, each has a unique voice. Part of that is probably bracing differences, part maybe the inevitable differences between handmade wooden objects. James Taylor thought the 'hog slope-J was a good fingerpicker: JT with J-50 And Sean Watkins has flat-picked this J-45 almost to death: Sean Watkins with J-45 Here's that same J-45 in an ensemble setting: Nickel Creek Tiny Desk Note that in the Nickel Creek video, the J-45 is showing much more wear, with the top held together with what looks like clear packing tape. Edited March 4, 2023 by j45nick 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 One of my favorite Nickel Creek sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwilson09 Posted March 4, 2023 Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 FWIW in terms of makes / models I was limiting myself to current new models only, for only the reason that navigating the used market is so difficult just in terms of all the variation that has happened over the years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, johnwilson09 said: FWIW in terms of makes / models I was limiting myself to current new models only, for only the reason that navigating the used market is so difficult just in terms of all the variation that has happened over the years... Gibson is making some of the best acoustic guitars they have ever made right now. Even so, each is an individual, so play before you buy if possible. Remember that the age/type of strings on the guitars will make a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwilson09 Posted March 4, 2023 Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 35 minutes ago, j45nick said: Gibson is making some of the best acoustic guitars they have ever made right now. Even so, each is an individual, so play before you buy if possible. Remember that the age/type of strings on the guitars will make a huge difference. Yes, the most I can find locally are the J45 standards -- no Jumbos or Birds sadly. But yeah the strings --- locally and perhaps frustratingly the string condition of many guitars makes them borderline unplayable for evaluation purposes. It's pretty had to overlook strings that are borderline rusted out as is the case in pretty much every guitar center and sam ash in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 2 hours ago, E-minor7 said: I'm sure an early 60s Hummingbird-Southern Jumbo-Country-Western would do you good. Remember the spacing at the nut can be widened. The circumstances by the bridge you could get used to. The heavy researcher here, (who according to Sal qualifies as an Inspector), went through endless A/Bs and try-outs the last more than 12 years. Assure you there is a pattern. However it isn't expected of you to follow the thought as I know you have quite a lot experience yourself. Can I ask : How many hog-squares & slopes did you own over time. And didn't you end up with a rosewood Bird (sorry can't recall if there is another - but know U took interest in the maple-version). Yes, but remember Mr 'Woof is quite particular about not just spacing at the bridge, but he also has needs re: neck profile. But, as far as "Assure you there is a pattern"... so, what is the pattern? I've had more than twenty, over time, and 7 J-45-based guitars at one time. Yes, foolishly sold the Std H-bird because it was more banged-up than advertised, but it had what the HB Rocker Rose has- the combination of sound n' setup that is (imho) more important than whether or not it is a '45 or a Hummingbird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwilson09 Posted March 4, 2023 Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 6 hours ago, E-minor7 said: Ooohh, , , it's now we have to careful not to confuse roomy with boomy. 🤣 I seriously believe the contemporary Birds/CWs are sounding as if their bodies weren't as deep as the slopes. Somehow tighter, more defined - clearer. Maybe as if their ancestors were archtops. Yes, I know it gets hard to exchange words about this, but what can forumites do !? Here is a test-film that speaks my case. It's been exposed on these pages before (remember Grunt went for the 45 without hesitation) - and still provides the same story. Would you do me the favor of listening carefully, then tell if this makes any sense. . . Based on that video I'd for sure say that the Bird sounds generally more even across the spectrum. Perhaps at the expense of some volume... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 (edited) One thing I do which takes the strings out of play but which I feel tells you something is to give the top near the bridge and then the rim a slight whack with the side of your thumb. Then you just sit and listen and feel how far the vibration travels though you. Edited March 4, 2023 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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