If Only A Miracle

[dhanners623]

MissouriPicker’s advice about hitting a coffeehouse (or some type of open mic) is spot on. You learn more about a song in 3 minutes in front of a live audience than you do in a month’s worth of sitting alone and playing it in your living room, or posting it here.

[kwalker201]

Lars, I have always enjoyed listening to your music. You really do write some pretty amazing stuff. I wish I had what it takes to write a song.

As for as the vocals, keep on turning them out. No one can always be in perfect pitch. If we could we wouldn't be posting here, we would be out trying to get record deals 😀

[Larsongs]

It takes Balls for anyone to post their original music on a Musician Forum!!! You are exposing yourself. Just the fact that you do it is a marked Achievement in my book..

[Lars68]

Thanks again for all the encouragement in this thread! Even though I realize that playing live is the acid test for any original songs, I don't think I'm ready. Remember, what I post here are always my best efforts. You don't want to hear me being average 😂 However, I have been on the lookout for someone to just sit and play with. If the right person ever comes along, I wouldn't mind playing out if I can be in the background.

As for exposing myself by posting music here, I have decided a long time ago not to care. All there is at stake is my own ego, which is a small price to pay for the opportunity to learn from those who know what they are doing. Also, I used to play competitive tennis when I was younger and still play at a reasonably high level for my age (55). I don't for one second look down on adult beginners playing on the court next to me. I hope music works the same way…

Lars

[dhanners623]

I’ve enjoyed your songs, too.

If one is going to post songs here, one needs to be ready for constructive criticism. Some people are better at expressing that than others. I know that I, for one, have appreciated the comments I’ve gotten on songs. I’ve even edited the songs a couple of times based on feedback here. In fact, one suggestion by Murph on a song helped turn the song around, for which I am grateful.

As for playing out live, I think you just need to get out there and do it. I get the desire about being “ready,” but that is a relative term. I’ve known lots of songwriters who keep moving the goalposts on what they define as  “ready” and wind up never performing  in public. I’ve been to open mics where beginners have shown great “courage” but the audience supports them. Audiences WANT you to succeed. You’ll probably be nervous at first, but it goes away and you start having fun. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by dhanners623

[MissouriPicker]

4 hours ago, dhanners623 said:

 

As for playing out live, I think you just need to get out there and do it. I get the desire about being “ready,” but that is a relative term. I’ve known lots of songwriters who keep moving the goalposts on what they define as  “ready” and wind up never performing  in public. I’ve been to open mics where beginners have shown great “courage” but the audience supports them. Audiences WANT you to succeed. You’ll probably be nervous at first, but it goes away and you start having fun. 

Amen!  ……..Lars,and you’ll likely see/hear people there who will inspire you…..and people who you play/sing/write better than.  Of course, do what you’re comfortable with, but you’re skills are better than you think.

[Larsongs]

I can hear that song done simply like Lars did it.. I can hear it many ways in my head.. Acoustic Guitar, Harp in early Dylan style to full Production with Keys, Strings, Guitars, Bass, Drums, Lead & Backing harmonies.. Even some horns…

[Dave F]

11 hours ago, Larsongs said:

I can hear that song done simply like Lars did it.. I can hear it many ways in my head.. Acoustic Guitar, Harp in early Dylan style to full Production with Keys, Strings, Guitars, Bass, Drums, Lead & Backing harmonies.. Even some horns…

I could hear it with a little different phrasing of a few words, fewer vocal gaps and done in a Jim Croce style. I think it has good potential. I commend you for putting it out there. Something I could never do. 

[Lars68]

11 hours ago, Larsongs said:

I can hear that song done simply like Lars did it.. I can hear it many ways in my head.. Acoustic Guitar, Harp in early Dylan style to full Production with Keys, Strings, Guitars, Bass, Drums, Lead & Backing harmonies.. Even some horns…

Two instruments I would love to be able to play and add to my songs are harmonica and accordion. When played well those two sound great on singer-songwriter stuff. My recording actually has quite a few bits and pieces, but I tend to mix them far back. Besides the main acoustic, the track has two keyboards, an e-bow, an electric 12-strings, as well as a shaker.

Lars

[Larsongs]

3 minutes ago, Lars68 said:

Two instruments I would love to be able to play and add to my songs are harmonica and accordion. When played well those two sound great on singer-songwriter stuff. My recording actually has quite a few bits and pieces, but I tend to mix them far back. Besides the main acoustic, the track has two keyboards, an e-bow, an electric 12-strings, as well as a shaker.

Lars

Those Instruments are interesting. I’d remix it & bring all the accompaniment up to embellish the recording.. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Larsongs

[Lars68]

On 4/5/2023 at 6:26 PM, Larsongs said:

Those Instruments are interesting. I’d remix it & bring all the accompaniment up to embellish the recording.. 

 I did a new test mix, just to hear what it would sound like if I brought up the additional instruments a bit. I like it. It still maintains the acoustic character, but there is now a little more audible things happening in the track. Also, I have replaced almost all the original vocals with better takes. All steps for the better…

Lars

 

[dhanners623]

That’s a better job, for sure. To be honest, I think one of the issues is that you’re trying to cram too many words into the meter, and that disrupts the flow. Plus — and this is just one hack’s opinion — there are some words or phrases that could be changed or edited to make it flow more smoothly.

[Dave F]

5 hours ago, dhanners623 said:

That’s a better job, for sure. To be honest, I think one of the issues is that you’re trying to cram too many words into the meter, and that disrupts the flow. Plus — and this is just one hack’s opinion — there are some words or phrases that could be changed or edited to make it flow more smoothly.

I agree with everything you said. Much better. As you said, fewer words without changing the song may help. Here's what I would do with the first few verses.

 

Before

From an open window facing the park
I hear the laughter of children and the song of a lark

I'm sitting here waiting for you
In daydreams I'm forever blue

If only a miracle would light my way
Through the deep void where the shadows play
Into your arms of love and a brighter day

 

After

Open window, facing the park
Laughter of children, song of a lark

Sitting here, waiting for you
In daydreams, forever blue

A miracle, would light my way
Through the void, where shadows play
Into loving arms , a brighter day

Edited April 8, 2023 by Dave F

[Larsongs]

Lars,

Your remix sounds even better. I can hear a full arrangement with Double Tracked Guitars & in some parts Double Tracked Lead Vocals, Backing Harmony Vocals, Bass, Drums, Keys & 2nd Lead Guitar. Stereo imaging etc..

That said, there are infinite ways to write, perform, arrange & produce a Recording of a Song.. Even different styles.. Rock, Jazz, Country Blues or Reggae… Or whatever… 

Hank Williams, considered one of the greatest Song Writers off all time, would go over his Lyrics & refine them over & over til he removed everything that was unnecessary.. To the most simple phrasing so every line was a hook. Every word meant something. “Your Cheating Heart”.  Great example of, Less is More….

They’re never done!

Have fun with it,

Lars.. 

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Larsongs

[Lars68]

Yes, I totally agree, songs are never done. This song might have just been born, but it will take time for it to mature. I tend to re-write and tweak old song all the time. I'm glad I don't have to “release” anything. I'm free to change whatever I fancy.

As for the suggestion on simplifying the lyrics, Dave, thanks all lot for your great suggestion. I'm going to keep it in mind next time I work on the vocals.

Lars

[QuestionMark]

On 4/8/2023 at 9:52 AM, Lars68 said:

 I did a new test mix, just to hear what it would sound like if I brought up the additional instruments a bit. I like it. It still maintains the acoustic character, but there is now a little more audible things happening in the track. Also, I have replaced almost all the original vocals with better takes. All steps for the better…

Lars

 

I think the newer instrumentation coupled with your singing it with mindfulness has whipped it into much better shape.  It’s a great tune.  Keep refining like you’re doing.  I stand by my earlier comment.  It’s a brilliant complex piece of music.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

[Lars68]

On 4/9/2023 at 8:46 PM, QuestionMark said:

I think the newer instrumentation coupled with your singing it with mindfulness has whipped it into much better shape.  It’s a great tune.  Keep refining like you’re doing.  I stand by my earlier comment.  It’s a brilliant complex piece of music.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

I really appreciate the kind words.

Lars

[Lars68]

This is a thread from a month ago, and I just wanted to let you know that the feedback and discussions here led me to spend time working on my song. I have learned quite a bit about my shortcomings, especially vocally. I have iterated cycles of listening/correcting/singing with a few days in between efforts. I have also done some instrumental and mixing changes. All in all, this is now a much improved song, far from perfect, but improved…

Lars

 

[dhanners623]

Much improved!

If I may offer the following in the spirit of hopefully constructive thoughts:

— Why not just say “void” instead of “deep void”? We’re assuming from the context that the void is deep, so “deep” becomes an extraneous word.

— “Submission” is a cumbersome word for a song like this. Its meaning here seems imprecise, and it’s just a hard word to sing. It’s a big word.

— One hack’s opinion, but the latter part of the song has two “derailing” points I would consider problematic. (A “derailing” point — a phrase I made up — is a word or phrase that has the potential to derail the listener. They hear it and spend too much time processing it. By the time they do, you’re two or three lines ahead of them and you’ve lost them.)

The first is “fortress of solitude.” Sorry, but I can’t hear that and not think of Superman. I hear it in the song and think, “Is this song about Superman?” Maybe it’s just me.  In a similar vein, I can’t hear “a bridge too far” without thinking of the Cornelius Ryan book (and movie) about Operation Market Garden. Yeah, I know some people use it when they speak, but it just seems too specific.

I think you can edit around those two points fairly easily.

Again, I mean all this in a constructive way and I don’t want it to detract from the fact you’re making great progress. Now go play an open mic….

[Lars68]

Thanks for that great input. I really like these kinds of discussions about words and phrasings. We have bounced ideas back and forth on the forum before and every time it has helped me focus my lyrics and, more importantly, really serioussly THINK about the kind of things and traps you bring up. In this case I would like to, somewhat hesitantly, disagree 😀

The points you bring up were things I actually considered when writing, weighing pros and cons, and I felt the pros won out. As for “deep void”,  agreed deep is not needed, but it feels good to sing. I like how the vowels feel and sound in the melody.

The word “submission”  is a combination of meaning and sound. English is my second language, which puts me at a disadvantage. but after the word came to me, I felt it said exactly what I wanted to say, and it sounds good too. Later I actually looked it up in a dictionary to make sure my understanding of the word was correct. So if it works for a Swede…

The superman/book point is more complicated and interesting to discuss. When does a word or phrase, tied to another source, become a strength and when does it become a weakness? To be completely honest, both of these phrases, “fortress of solitude” and “a bridge too far” were part of my vocabulary, but I didn't know their origins. The Superman thing was pointed out to me, after I wrote the song, and I had no idea that it referenced his North Pole place 😳 That's just funny. Last week I heard it mentioned in the Apple comedy show, “Shrinking” by Harrison Ford's character, and it fit perfectly. I don't think anyone actually thinks I'm writing about Superman, and not even his super powers will stop me using a perfectly good combination of words, 😁 As for “a bridge too far”, I knew that phrase came from somewhere and when writing I looked it up and found out about the book and movie. Here, to me at least, the phrase says exactly what I intend and fits the metre. My reasoning is that the meaning of the phrase is generally used and known, even if the origin is not, and for those who do know, I see it as a hidden bonus. The connection to war and fighting fits my intentions.

Anyone else, feel free to join in with feedback. This is interesting stuff, with not necessarily a right or wrong answer. All depends on reference points, based on culture, age, demographics and so on…

Thanks again for bringing these things up!

Lars

 

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Lars68