The good old days when everyone was upgrading to Grover Rotomatics…?

[1929GibsonD-18E]

I’ve read this a few places online now, that there was a period of time, maybe 60’s or 70’s when the cool thing to do was to actually ream the tuner holes larger on your beautiful Gibson acoustic guitars, in order to install Grover Rotomatics of all things. Amazing as now so many people want the vintage look and are attempting to do the opposite.

 

Please tell me any stories/history you may have to share from this period.

 

When did this come about and why? Why Rotomatics? How long did this craze last? Why do Gibson use them today?

Edited May 2, 2023 by 1929GibsonD-18E

[CROWB8]

My experience wasn't with an acoustic. But in 1974 I bought a LPC BB 20th aniversary. It hae those classic tulips. First thing the store rep said was that very thing. Upgrade to grovers! I didn't do it. I did upgrade to a Dmarzio SD pup for the bridge. IDNK how y'all feel bout an acoustic app, but to this day, grovers look down right ugly on a gibby save those with rounded head stocks like on a V. For me, and I have an acoustic, just not a gibby, I feel the same on it.

[1929GibsonD-18E]

1 hour ago, Little Feat said:

I've never seen a 1929 Gibson D-18E.

Best guitar never made.

[Gibson29]

Not a Gibson, but I purchased a 1937 Martin 00-17 in the ‘90s that had replaced gold GRs.  Of course, the top finish was stripped and there were 6 filled holes on the side of the headstock corresponding to the shafts, 3 on top of the headstock, and one on the face.  Logo/decal fine.

Probably rhinestones, no evidence of repair.  A neckset and refret later, wonderful players guitar.  And Grover open back.  Still have the little beast.

[ksdaddy]

I bought my 1964 Southerner Jumbo in 1984. It had Grover 102's installed. Also "21737 Chris Clark" scratched into it (never did find out who he/she is/was). A couple years later I installed a set of Schaller gold tuners that "looked" (if you squinted) like old tulip Klusons, except they had screw on bushings and fit the Grover holes perfectly.

About ten years ago I scored an old set of tulip Klusons and installed them with conversion bushings, which are basically ferrules that are fat enough to fit the enlarged holes but also fit the old Kluson shafts.  Doesn't show.

Most SJs of that period came with button Klusons but I've seen one or two with tulips so I'm probably okay.... "close enough".

[j45nick]

When I was a junior in college (1967) my roommate had a D-18 with Rotomatics. I had a rather sad, worn 1950 J-45 with the original Klusons, which I had a lot of trouble with because I had no idea how to clean and lubricate them to make them work better. With their plastic buttons, they also looked cheap next to those shiny Rotomatics. The Rotomatics also never slipped the way the Klusons did.

Fortunately, I didn't have money to replace the Klusons with Rotomatics. A couple of years later I was having some work  done on the guitar, and I asked the guy what it would cost to switch to Rotomatics. I still couldn't spend that much on tuners, since I was also getting the first hard case the guitar had ever had.  So they guy said if I wanted to replace the Klusons, he could install a set of Grover Sta-Tite 97s for about half the cost of the Rotomatics.

I went for the Sta-Tites, and they are still on the guitar today. They actually look pretty good on the guitar, which is the one in my avatar here. I promise you the funny-looking headstock is actually a 1950 J-45 underneath the ebony and ivory binding (made from old piano keys), and the fancy abalone inlay. (The fretboard actually has even fancier abalone inlay.)

Thank Dog I didn't have the money for the Rotomatics back then! Wish I had those original Klusons back.

My other 1950 J-45 is absolutely original, including the Klusons. I bought it because it was a one-owner, really fine version of the guitar I bought back in 1966. So I have two 1950 J-45s, built no more than a couple of months apart, but with very different life stories.

I've rejuvenated a whole lot of Klusons since then, but I've never owned a Rotomatic. Nothing wrong with them, but they're not for me.

Edited May 2, 2023 by j45nick
additional thought

[rustystrings]

Alas, I am one of those who installed Grover Rotomatics.  At the end of '85, maybe very early '86, I bought what turned out to be a 1960 Gibson LG-2 for $125 from a friend of a friend.  The LG-2 had spent 20 years or so in an attic, and it's a miracle it wasn't in worse shape.  As it was, in addition to repairing a crack in the top, I also had zero useable tuner buttons.

Remember - maybe 1986?  Greenwood, South Carolina.  And at the time, NOBODY took LG-2s seriously - they were still regarded as a student guitar and not as the grand concert-sized version of the J-45.  For that matter, all the vintage acoustic love went to Martins, and old Gibsons weren't taken all that seriously then, either. 

Nobody in town had anything that would have been a drop-in replacement for my unbuttoned keys, and replacement Kluson-style buttons didn't even exist then, did they?  So I got a set of Rotomatics and borrowed the tapered reamer from the Radio Shack I worked for and a little while later I had a playable guitar.  And it served me very well, despite being a touch neck-heavy, and those tuners were still on it when I last saw it ...

[zombywoof]

I must have slept through that fad.  I was gigging by the mid-1960s and do not recall anybody swapping out Klusons or whatever especially for Grover Pat Pending Rotomatics on acoustics during that decade into the 1970s.  Throws the whole balance of the guitar off.  With Gibson electrics though it was not uncommon to swap out those Vibrola tailpieces on say Firebirds with a stop tailpiece.  I played a Firebird and every time you broke a sting the whole guitar would go out of tune.

My habit though was to score used Grover  G-93s and G-98s and such when I could get them on the cheap and stash them away for possible future use,  More often as not though I slapped them on various Harmonys and Kays.  But I do still keep a good supply of vintage tuners on hand.  You never know when the need will arise.  And I still say that Grover Rotomatics just look so wrong on a slope shoulder Gibson.

Edited May 2, 2023 by zombywoof

[E-minor7]

Donovan replaced the white ovals on his 1964 ceramic saddled cherry J-45 with something fatter that probably was Rotomatics around 68.                                                                                                                                                                                                        So did Lennon on his Epiphone Casino - guess when the burst was sanded down in that same period.  

                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Ralf McTell's early/mid-60s J-50 - mmmm, perhaps. . 

[E-minor7]

2 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

Donovan replaced the white ovals on his 1964 ceramic saddled cherry J-45 with something fatter that probably was Rotomatics around 68.                                                                                                                                                                                                        So did Lennon on his Epiphone Casino - guess when the burst was sanded down in that same period.  

                                                             

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Ralf McTell's early/mid-60s J-50 - mmmm, perhaps. . 

John Renbourn was another ~

[philfish]

I replaced the tuners on my Guild D40 with grovers, must have been early seventies.

There still going strong, a lot of the gold finish has worn off the knobs. These must be first generation grovers notice the pat pending

Fads they come and go

[E-minor7]

4 minutes ago, philfish said:

I replaced the tuners on my Guild D40 with grovers, must have been early seventies.

There still going strong, a lot of the gold finish has worn off the knobs. These must be first generation grovers notice the pat pending

Fads they come and go

You simply were a part of the original wave ▲ authenticity always refines the Forum-phere.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         I had the same faded golden Grovers on my Dove before switching to golden waffle back tulips. They actually look very kool in that jaded 'silver-gold'-mix.

[PrairieSchooner]

I've replaced a lot of banjo tuners but never on a guitar.  HD-28=Grovers, J-200=Kluson tulips, F-212XL= mini Schallers.  The Schallers are the best of the three.  I do remember a few earlier Gibsons from back in the day with open gear tuners; they mighta looked right but I hated them.

[zombywoof]

46 minutes ago, PrairieSchooner said:

I've replaced a lot of banjo tuners but never on a guitar.  HD-28=Grovers, J-200=Kluson tulips, F-212XL= mini Schallers.  The Schallers are the best of the three.  I do remember a few earlier Gibsons from back in the day with open gear tuners; they mighta looked right but I hated them.

Every Gibson flattop I can think of built into 1947 other than the SJ200 sported open gear tuners.  Mine have had either Waverlys or Klusons,   So, maybe I just got used to them but I always preferred the way they look compared to the later enclosed Kluson Deluxes.  No argument though that on the older guitars you got to do some travelling to get them in tune.  Generally though when it comes to tuners I go by the if it ain't broke don't fix it rule of thumb.

[BK777]

It WAS all the rage to ditch perfectly functional tuning machines in the early 80s for Rotos.

Playing in bands, I could hardly afford strings let alone new tuners, so I watched as others did the operation. My 73 Tele needed something, so did my Strat...but the Rotos looked silly on other Teles. But probably way more functional than awful Tele ones.

Late 80s, I traded my 30s Dobro for my approx 1976 metal body Dobro and guess what? It had the most desirable tuners -Rotos!!! (Still has them and working well).

Next on the Roto list was my 2007 Blues King with Mini-Rotos, also still on there and working well....but it was close to getting new Kluson style Grovers like I had put on my 37 L-0. (Really, really nice tuners).

Next was the J45 Standard from about 2010??? - the Rotos were awful. Guitar long gone. It would have got all the rage at the time open back Waverlies......but the Martin OM28 Marquis I had for while sported them and they were....klunkers! What’s the song? ‘Darn That Dream’....

And then seemingly worldwide there was an ‘Anti- Rotos Movement’ ! And everyone was swapping them back out for open back tuners. Considered it but....did nothing.

Also on the list, I have 4 deep body 00 Matons (808s) and ALL Maton acoustics come with ...........Rotos!!! Hooray for Maton living in the eighties! No fancy Waverlies or torrefied tops or thin finish or lightweight anything....built to tank standards! Plus...the best factory pickups on the planet! And....the Rotos on all 4 have been very good, very smooth. They do weigh the necks down compared to Kluson style.... BUT...my top of the line Maton Messiah EM100-808 came with...yep....Gold Rotos!!! With my gold Shubb capo or my gold G7 Heritage, we need sunglasses! 😃

 

BluesKing777.

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by BK777

[Murph]

I never changed tuners on anything unless they malfunctioned.

I also never changed an alternator on my truck if it was working.

I'm weird like that...

 

[fortyearspickn]

Agree.  I'm not sharp enough to notice a difference in weight, not technical enough to ream out a hole, and too lazy to find conversion bushings.  I use the excuse that I want my guitars to remain 'all original'.    And, I'm not sensitive enough to notice a difference in how they work - if they don't slip... why chance it?      "If it's not broken, don't fix it."  My motto.   

[E-minor7]

3 hours ago, Murph said:

I never changed tuners on anything unless they malfunctioned.

Being the kind of player who looks a lot at the left hand, not the right, I like to see something immaculate down there.                                                                                                                                                                                                   Add that to a wish for authenticity of the respective model and the tuners certainly will be of great importance.

Thus it was very satisfying to change the boring Martin-mechanics on the slope D-18 and the faded gold Grover Rotomatics on the Dove here.                                                                                                                                                                                  In came aged metal fat ovals* and golden waffle back tulips - both from Waverly. YES !

 

*The Mart. is a custom made guitar, so there's no real tradition to follow there.