Curious about comparative lack of used Standard J-45s

[PrairieDog]

Just for discussion, I’m curious about why there are so few used Standard j-45s out there.  

I couldn’t get back to the shop in time and lost the game of chicken with that nice used plain old recent standard, Standard J-45 I tried.  So I’ve been poking around looking for another.  

I’m mostly looking locally within about 200 miles (driving distance) and for how popular and how many have been produced over the decades, there are surprisingly slim pickings out there.  This search range includes several major cities, and many guitar shops and private sales, including five Guitar Centers, and 3 indie shops, our main resources for easy used options, not to mention the whole Marketplace/Craigslist world (which scares the c*ap outta me).

But for every five Studios and customs (or 10-20 LPs or arch-tops) there may be one plain, Standard J-45. And the ones that are available have been sitting a while, either the price too high, or there are issues. 

I’m just looking for the “normal” sitka/mahogany.  I don’t need a throwback custom, or gussied up rosewood, signature model, etc.  (Okay, if a Keb-mo 12 fret dropped in my lap for 2k I wouldn’t kick it to the curb, chuckle). 

You think with how long they’ve been made, being the “workhorse” model it sounds like everyone eventually buys, the marketplace would be dripping with ones that need re-homing as folks move on.  

So whatdya think?  What could be the reason folks just aren’t parting with them at the same rate as other Gibsons?  Are folks so attached to them they just don’t move them on? Or are there really not so many of them out there, and they really are more limited than the shop talk would suggest?  

At this point, while I prefer to have a few years on one, since I don’t have the time left to wait for it to open up, I’m thinking about just buying a new one and trying the speaker trick 😎

 

Edited May 15 by PrairieDog

[Karloff]

I would guess that those that have them want to keep them

[PrairieDog]

3 hours ago, Karloff said:

I would guess that those that have them want to keep them

Nod, sure, I’m thinking that be it. Just wondering if there is that much mystique in them that  once you have a plain old J-45, do you really never let it go?  Just compared to the churn in all the other models and looking at all the Studios, Customs,  LPs and SGs, being offered, not to mention the comparable Martins and Taylors.  You practically trip over them all, there are so many of the other models available. It seems weird so few J-45s, it seems off considering marketshare-wise  since it’s supposed to be one of the best selling guitars ever.  

[duane v]

I've never understood about a guitar opening up.... ????

All my acoustic guitars sound the same as the day I bought them.

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, duane v said:

I've never understood about a guitar opening up.... ????

All my acoustic guitars sound the same as the day I bought them.

Interesting.  It’s a cool quality that older instruments take on when you hear it.  Since makers offer versions of torrified/aged tops folks must be looking for the sound.   It’s kinda too bad you haven’t experienced it.  It’s just a natural progression of solid wood guitars that they dry out and the tones change, usually for the better.  It doesn’t happen much with laminates, but that wouldn’t apply to yours.  Sincerely, if you like how yours sounds it doesn’t really matter, right?  

Edited May 16 by PrairieDog

[Larsongs]

There are 303 Used J-45’s For Sale on Reverb.com… I think that’s how most Guys Sell their Guitars these days.. Downside being you don’t get to try ‘em before you buy ‘em..

But, you can narrow the Search to Guitars listed near you, contact the Owners & see if you can meet up & try them out.. Just a thought..

[Sheepdog1969]

A close friend of mine and I were just talking about how resale financial valuations tend to be based on a number of things that may not be associated with an items actual functional quality. Yet, real market user valuation may be better determined by an items new/used market "lack of availability", especially when it's production numbers have never been intentionally limited/reduced merely  to effect it's value/cost. To be clear, we were discussing an item's "value" in terms of it being a "keeper", and not it's investment/profit potential on the resale market. (e.g. If an item has an above average/not limited yearly production amount, yet it tends to be regularly "sold out", and used/pre-owed examples are hard to find, it means that the item meets/exceeds the expectations of it's buyers. Thus, owners of said item value it's usefulness/performance over it's potential aftermarket profitability.)

This, "usefulness coefficient",  is quite a rare thing when it supersedes the "greed coefficient" associated with less "useful" in-demand items. Hence the phrase, "I wouldn't part with this for all the Gold in Fort Knox.". I suspect that J-45's simply meet/exceed the needs of those who currently own them, and those J-45 owners know a good thing when they have it.  This may be a good sign that investing in a new one is worth the investment.       

[PrairieDog]

7 hours ago, Larsongs said:

There are 303 Used J-45’s For Sale on Reverb.com… I think that’s how most Guys Sell their Guitars these days.. Downside being you don’t get to try ‘em before you buy ‘em..

But, you can narrow the Search to Guitars listed near you, contact the Owners & see if you can meet up & try them out.. Just a thought..

Chuckle, yeah I think I’ve heard about that Reverb place 🙂 j/k I appreciate you are being helpful, grin.  

Sure, there are over 300 j-45s out there, but if you look closely most are studios, throwbacks, real vintage, or special/customs. Percentage-wise very few of the good ol’ Charlie Brown of guitars.  And to my question, there is not a single one within 250 miles of me.  I check everyday.  

GC only has five listed nationwide.  Carter only has high-end vintage ones, Daves doesn’t have any used, and Willies only has hight end collector models.  Music-go-round nationally has diddly worth looking at because of their return policy.  The other small shops around don’t have any used.   

Ironically, it was a beater at our local MGR that sent me down this road.  A 1985, it looked like a bocce ball dropped on it, there were so many repaired cracks below the bridge. But it did sound great. I put it back thinking, okay time for a J-45 but I’ll hold out for one in better shape.  Yet another in a long list of life mistakes. I could have one fairly cheap right now. 

This  is what prompted my question in the first place.  I’m curious why here, in what is considered a sort of  music capital, I got zip to choose from. If I wanted any other popular model guitar, I could spend weeks checking them all out. 

At least searching gives me something to do.   

 

[Larsongs]

Having so many variations of Gibson builds over the years & wanting a specific set of Specs does narrow down the search in the Used market.. 

I thought not having a lot of choices for different Guitars for me is because I live out in the Desert away from big Cities.. I’ve been looking for a recent USA California built Used Guild D-55E, another Martin D-35 or another Gibson J-160E. I only see 1 or 2 within a couple hundred miles..

Good luck..

Edited May 16 by Larsongs

[PrairieDog]

1 minute ago, Larsongs said:

…another Gibson J-160E.

Funny, there is a j-160E that keeps popping up in my searches that makes me look every time 😁 It might be at Dave’s? If it is, they are really cool, highly reputable, and you can trust their descriptions. We have gotten some great deals there.  And, they are good with returns if you call them right away.   Anyway, I’ll keep an eye out for where it is.  

[fortyearspickn]

Sheepdog seemed to say it best.    I'm guessing there are more of the 'Studio' etc. versions for sale because they are purchased by folks who aren't as 'committed' as those who get a J45.           For me,  with an H'bird and an SJ200 hanging next to it - I grab my J45 90% of the time.   The one I'd grab if the house were afire,  last one to sell if I needed the $, etc.  Sound, tone, comfort, looks, it checks all the boxes.  Other long standing iconic  models are certainly close in desirability  but I can only sum it up in one word for me  - 'bonding'.    Another aspect - when you see performers with acoustics, based on my unscientific observations - the J45 is the one you see most often.  So it creates a subliminal message.  Yeah, you see a lot of DIFFERENT Gibson, Martin and Taylor models,  Garth plays a Takemine.  George Strait a Guild, etc.  but the one model most often seen  - seems to be the J45.   Maybe in part because it's hailed as the 'Singer Songwriter"  guitar.  Ironically, since there is an actual Gibson model with that name! 

PS...  PD,   I'd widen your search criteria and consider Custom Shop J45s, if the tone wood  and the glitziness don't offend.  Mine has an ebony f/b and koa - which isn't too far removed from mahogany tone wise, according to some.   And of course -  it's not until you've decided on purchasing  and are  actively looking for something specific that seemed to be everywhere - that you find out how few there actually are available. 

[PrairieDog]

28 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

Sheepdog seemed to say it best.    I'm guessing there are more of the 'Studio' etc. versions for sale because they are purchased by folks who aren't as 'committed' as those who get a J45.           For me,  with an H'bird and an SJ200 hanging next to it - I grab my J45 90% of the time.   The one I'd grab if the house were afire,  last one to sell if I needed the $, etc.  Sound, tone, comfort, looks, it checks all the boxes.  Other long standing iconic  models are certainly close in desirability  but I can only sum it up in one word for me  - 'bonding'.    Another aspect - when you see performers with acoustics, based on my unscientific observations - the J45 is the one you see most often.  So it creates a subliminal message.  Yeah, you see a lot of DIFFERENT Gibson, Martin and Taylor models,  Garth plays a Takemine.  George Strait a Guild, etc.  but the one model most often seen  - seems to be the J45.   Maybe in part because it's hailed as the 'Singer Songwriter"  guitar.  Ironically, since there is an actual Gibson model with that name! 

PS...  PD,   I'd widen your search criteria and consider Custom Shop J45s, if the tone wood  and the glitziness don't offend.  Mine has an ebony f/b and koa - which isn't too far removed from mahogany tone wise, according to some.   And of course -  it's not until you've decided on purchasing  and are  actively looking for something specific that seemed to be everywhere - that you find out how few there actually are available. 

Yeah, at this particular moment, I’m relegated to cheaping out.  As some of you know we’ve been on a bit of a spree this year, and the fun money has finally been run low, picking up the 1938 Cromwell, Godin 5th Ave, and the Lucille all in quick order.   I’d  love a reissue J-45, or custom, as long as it’s hog.  And bling definitely does not bother me. The music room is pretty sparkly right now.  But prudence says wallet minding is in play at the moment.  

Of course the longer the Standard eludes, the more pennies get put back in the piggy bank.  Maybe my parameters can expand if it takes long enough…😁 I admit, I have hovered over more than one real Banner pondering how short life is, and how much do we really need to eat? 😆 

Edited May 16 by PrairieDog

[Sheepdog1969]

33 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

I admit, I have hovered over more than one real Banner pondering how short life is, and how much do we really need to eat? 😆 

Oh my friend, we think so much alike. I have become so much like the camel that my curvatious , over the belt gut, is not a sign of over  overindulgence, but a repository of preparedness. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it!) Oh, and after my post asking for buttery playing acoustic suggestions, we may be battling for used mid-west j-45's, LOL! No, actually, if I come across one here that feels right, I will give you a PM with an assessment and price and let you see if you want to learn more.  

[PrairieDog]

10 minutes ago, Sheepdog1969 said:

Oh my friend, we think so much alike. I have become so much like the camel that my curvatious , over the belt gut, is not a sign of over  overindulgence, but a repository of preparedness. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it!) Oh, and after my post asking for buttery playing acoustic suggestions, we may be battling for used mid-west j-45's, LOL! No, actually, if I come across one here that feels right, I will give you a PM with an assessment and price and let you see if you want to learn more.  

Chuckle…. Preparedness, I like that.  Grin thanks for that, but seriously if you found one you think I’d like, chances are you better grab that puppy up for yourself and I would cheer you on!  😁 

[Sheepdog1969]

5 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

but seriously if you found one you think I’d like, chances are you better grab that puppy up for yourself and I would cheer you on!  

I tend to live by the rule of "dibbs", and similarly the by rule of Karma. Since I only learned of the j-45 from you, and if I purposefully looked for one based on your post, and then found one without letting you know about it, I would be doomed to bad luck because of my selfishness. I can't roll that way. If I find a honey here in the midwest, you've got first dibbs brother. I will let you know. That's just the way it is.

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, Sheepdog1969 said:

I tend to live by the rule of "dibbs", and similarly the by rule of Karma. Since I only learned of the j-45 from you, and if I purposefully looked for one based on your post, and then found one without letting you know about it, I would be doomed to bad luck because of my selfishness. I can't roll that way. If I find a honey here in the midwest, you've got first dibbs brother. I will let you know. That's just the way it is.

Ope! Hold on… we are stuck in a midwestern nice, “no, after YOU!” doorway stand-off… 🤣 Not only am I Minnesotan, but I was raised Quaker, so I have a double dose of what helps the “other person” is more important than a gain for myself… What shall we do? What shall we do???

Okay, like trading gift cards at Christmas where you come out even in the end, let’s make a pact that if we find one, we buy it for ourselves in “honor” of the other’s intention of generosity. The only thing missing would be the pm-ing.  

“No, really honey, I have to buy this one because SheepDog would *want* me to have it if he had seen it first.  It’s really only to protect his Karma… He’s doing the same for me .”  ☺️

I will call mine “Shep” as a tribute to you!

Edited May 16 by PrairieDog

[Sheepdog1969]

Dude, I'm Amish. We will seriously need to square dance to figure this out. (Not exactly sure how one "wins" a square dance, but based on Amish and Quaker faiths, the winner actually looses.) So, F-U, I'm finding you a F-ing guitar, and I'm bringing up north to you, eh, and I expect to be riddled with guilt for helping you out, because that's normal, RIGHT? LOL

[Sheepdog1969]

20 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

so I have a double dose of what helps the “other person” is more important than a gain for myself

Listen, If you continue to be so freaking nice, I will be forced to provide you with my second born daughter in addition to my generous guitar gift. (She is a lovely girl who may have a slight stigmatism, but she milks the heck out of a cow.) She informs me that she can win (re: loose) the heck out of a square dance. (Due to her stigmatism, she tends to dance a trapezoid)

[Pinch]

I saw a picture of Lemmy the other day, where he wore a "1974 Square Dancing Championships" t-shirt.

[duane v]

On 5/15/2024 at 9:22 PM, PrairieDog said:

Interesting.  It’s a cool quality that older instruments take on when you hear it.  Since makers offer versions of torrified/aged tops folks must be looking for the sound.   It’s kinda too bad you haven’t experienced it.  It’s just a natural progression of solid wood guitars that they dry out and the tones change, usually for the better.  It doesn’t happen much with laminates, but that wouldn’t apply to yours.  Sincerely, if you like how yours sounds it doesn’t really matter, right?  

I dunno man.

i don't see how any slab of wood that has sealer and nitro lacquer crammed in every pour opening up at any time in its life..... maybe I'm just deaf. 

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, duane v said:

I dunno man.

i don't see how any slab of wood that has sealer and nitro lacquer crammed in every pour opening up at any time in its life..... maybe I'm just deaf. 

Maybe. Just saying, there is no sealer inside the guitar.  The moisture can move out the back, it doesn’t have to go out the finished side.  Not to mention, years of vibrations makes the wood more pliant and flexible. Like when you loosen up new leather.  

Or possibly the tones have changed with you, so you aren’t noticing they are different?  Do you have recordings of the guitars when they were new to compare to?  It’s a slow and subtle process.  It’s like you don’t notice how the carpet faded until you move the furniture.  

I’m aware my experiences have no weight here,  but I’m sure you  can talk to lots of other folks who will vouch for the tone of a well-aged, well-built, solid woods acoustic guitar.  As I said before, it’s a thing even the makers recognize and go to great lengths to try to replicate.  

Edited May 17 by PrairieDog

[Dub-T-123]

29 minutes ago, duane v said:

I dunno man.

i don't see how any slab of wood that has sealer and nitro lacquer crammed in every pour opening up at any time in its life..... maybe I'm just deaf. 

The finish is not impervious, especially on an acoustic where you really only have that hard finish on the exterior. 
 

That’s not really the point as it’s kindof a mistake to cite “drying out” as the cause. If the wood were to “dry out” you’d expect that to manifest in the form of warping and cracking, not an improvement to sound quality. 
 

I think what prairie dog meant to say was something more like the natural resins in the wood crystallize and harden over time, the wood (now being made of harder stuff) is able to vibrate more freely which in turn affects the overall sound quality 

 

The example of moving a piece of furniture and seeing discoloration on the carpet was brilliant. While I haven’t personally experienced a guitar “opening up”, it could be because of the carpet thing and the fact that I’m not actively looking for any changes 

 

So I haven’t experienced this but I understand the idea behind it. Now that we have torrefied wood and guys far more knowledgeable than myself touting its virtues, I tend to believe that this is a real thing (albeit of no concern to myself)

[Phil OKeefe]

On 5/15/2024 at 4:53 PM, duane v said:

I've never understood about a guitar opening up.... ????

All my acoustic guitars sound the same as the day I bought them.

Are they all solid wood construction? Anything laminated tends to stay pretty consistent over the years (at least in my personal experience), but the solid wood acoustics that I have had for years all seem to change (for the better) over time. The Taylor 510 that my wife bought me as a wedding present in 1994 has mellowed considerably since it was new, with less bright and zippy sounding highs, and more complexity to the mids and lows. 

[Larsongs]

2 hours ago, Phil OKeefe said:

Are they all solid wood construction? Anything laminated tends to stay pretty consistent over the years (at least in my personal experience), but the solid wood acoustics that I have had for years all seem to change (for the better) over time. The Taylor 510 that my wife bought me as a wedding present in 1994 has mellowed considerably since it was new, with less bright and zippy sounding highs, and more complexity to the mids and lows. 

I can tell the difference in between new Martin D-35 Acoustic Guitars & my 50 year old D-35 that’s been played.. Same with my 22 year old J-160E & recent Used J-160E’s.. 

Which is why I’m having a difficult time buying a new Acoustic D-35 & a recent Used J-160E.. Gibson stopped building J-160E’s a few years ago.. Why, I don’t know? The Solid Top Bozeman J-160E’s are fantastic Guitars.. 

Edited May 17 by Larsongs

[RBSinTo]

PrairieDog,

Sorry to weigh in so late, but in answer to your original question, the real reason there are so few used J-45 standards available is, I've got them all stashed under my bed.

You just never know when the headstock will spontaneously break off the one you're using, so I did it just to be safe.

RBSinTo