How much difference could a string change make?

[PrairieDog]

40 minutes ago, egoidealmusic said:

Many here will disagree about strings, but I love the Sunbeams (tried them off of a rec here and have never looked back).  The bigger issue you hint at is the opening up.  Bang on it a bunch, but as I've said elsewhere, the speaker trick really does work--the more vibrations going through the top the more it will open up.  Give it two days like this and if you don't hear a difference it's possible you got a dud, but I'm guessing you're right that it sat in the case and never got to open up.

So, the speaker trick: I am intrigued about trying it.  How loud are we talking for the speaker?  Trying to figure out where to do it, since I don’t have a room I can really isolate here in the house.  

[E-minor7]

1 hour ago, PrairieDog said:

 I probably should have clarified I am asking if putting “fresh” strings on it might help.  

To be politely frank, I can't believe I'm the only one here who think it's strange you don't try another set of strings, 1-2-3. . 

It would tell you 3 books where we only can provide fragmented lines of half blind guess words. 🙉

[egoidealmusic]

1 hour ago, PrairieDog said:

So, the speaker trick: I am intrigued about trying it.  How loud are we talking for the speaker?  Trying to figure out where to do it, since I don’t have a room I can really isolate here in the house.  

As I've mentioned in other threads, I don't actually lean it up against a speaker like some folks used to.  I've got a small radio (maybe 3 pounds tops) that I set right on the bridge, dial in a rock station and the volume is not very high.  You can feel the top vibrate when it's loud enough, which really isn't that loud at all.  I left it the first time for 2 full days.  Amazing difference.  Played it for a few days, then did it again for another couple of days.  My lady, who's not a big guiar person, noticed the difference at each stage.  It's basically the tonerite (or whatever it's called) but a whole lot cheaper.

[PrairieDog]

25 minutes ago, egoidealmusic said:

As I've mentioned in other threads, I don't actually lean it up against a speaker like some folks used to.  I've got a small radio (maybe 3 pounds tops) that I set right on the bridge, dial in a rock station and the volume is not very high.  You can feel the top vibrate when it's loud enough, which really isn't that loud at all.  I left it the first time for 2 full days.  Amazing difference.  Played it for a few days, then did it again for another couple of days.  My lady, who's not a big guiar person, noticed the difference at each stage.  It's basically the tonerite (or whatever it's called) but a whole lot cheaper.

Thanks, I’ll try it! Appreciate the help. I’ll check back with how it goes.  

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, E-minor7 said:

To be politely frank, I can't believe I'm the only one here who think it's strange you don't try another set of strings, 1-2-3. . 

It would tell you 3 books where we only can provide fragmented lines of half blind guess words. 🙉

I understand.  No worries about being frank.  If anyone had responded that yeah, fresh strings is the solution to clear up the lack of bass/thump, I was ready to do it.  But so far, nobody has unequivocally chimed in with “fresh XS strings will make it thump more.” I was just looking for some back up it would be worth burning my last set on what I was suspecting might be a pointless hail Mary.  I admit I am trying to avoid contributing 20.00 of shiny strings on a guitar that’s going back to the shop the next day, would be adding a twinge of irk to sadness.  I’m thinking folks are right I may have just had misplaced expectations for a Hummingbird just because it was mahogany.  I’m going to try the speaker trick re the case queen angle.  Like Ego said, at least it’s free and I can try it within the return period.  

Edited June 5 by PrairieDog

[the other side]

Congrats on your new bird! My recommendation is to make sure the saddle is perfectly square on the bottom and it is properly seated. If it has a bone saddle, change it to tusq along with tusq bridge pins and use 12 guage regular phosphor bronze strings (DR Sunbeams would be where I'd  start). I found coated strings dampen sound slightly. Bone saddle and especially bone pins do not work on my Bird. If you do the change, I would also recommend to play it a couple days so things settle. Man that's a beautiful bird. Good luck!

Edited June 5 by the other side
Added txt.

[Larsongs]

$20.00 for a new Set of Strings is a lot cheaper than what it cost for a Guitar you’re never gonna be sure you should’ve kept or returned.. Either you’ll return it & might wish you hadn’t. Or you’ll keep it & maybe wish you had.. 

[PrairieDog]

3 hours ago, Larsongs said:

$20.00 for a new Set of Strings is a lot cheaper than what it cost for a Guitar you’re never gonna be sure you should’ve kept or returned.. Either you’ll return it & might wish you hadn’t. Or you’ll keep it & maybe wish you had.. 

yeah, I know how it works, I was asking you experts about the extent a “change in tone” a string change can make.  I was sincerely hoping someone would say, Yeah, it’s just the strings, change them, and it’ll be all good.  I got some good answers, so I have enough info to carry on with my decision.  

[PrairieDog]

6 hours ago, the other side said:

Congrats on your new bird! My recommendation is to make sure the saddle is perfectly square on the bottom and it is properly seated. If it has a bone saddle, change it to tusq along with tusq bridge pins and use 12 guage regular phosphor bronze strings (DR Sunbeams would be where I'd  start). I found coated strings dampen sound slightly. Bone saddle and especially bone pins do not work on my Bird. If you do the change, I would also recommend to play it a couple days so things settle. Man that's a beautiful bird. Good luck!

Thank you, that is very helpful,  I didn’t think about the other parts.  And here I thought the bone saddle and nut were supposed to be a plus for the Original, chuckle.  Sadly for the strings, I don’t have a choice. I have the metal allergy, so it’s coated or I don’t play at all.  My fingers looked like hamburger when I started playing again.  Folks here steered me to the coated.  Forever grateful to this hive mind.  My ear has gotten accustomed to the tenor of coated strings.  Since I don’t gig out, it’s not like anyone else will cover their ears in disgust (not for sound of the coated strings, at least) 😁 Thanks again and thanks for the kind word about the Bird.  

[fortyearspickn]

There’s thump, growl, resonance, volume, projection, sustain, and a dozen other words, but if your mint condition doesn’t  come close to what you want to hear,  unless the strings are pure crap,  I’d return it within the time allotted.  The speaker trick,  I just put mine close enough that I could feel the sympathetic vibration in the face.   It seemed to help open it up.  If you need coated strings that badly, I would have already put a set of Elixers on it to get closer to the actual sound you’d be hearing if you kept it.  My HBird TV is never going to sound like my J45, no matter what strings I put on it though.  

[ruger9]

12 minutes ago, fortyearspickn said:

There’s thump, growl, resonance, volume, projection, sustain, and a dozen other words, but if your mint condition doesn’t  come close to what you want to hear,  unless the strings are pure crap,  I’d return it within the time allotted.  The speaker trick,  I just put mine close enough that I could feel the sympathetic vibration in the face.   It seemed to help open it up.  If you need coated strings that badly, I would have already put a set of Elixers on it to get closer to the actual sound you’d be hearing if you kept it.  My HBird TV is never going to sound like my J45, no matter what strings I put on it though.  

This right here.  Strings aren't going to change things THAT much. A guitar is what it is, strings can be a bit of a "tone control", much like different picks can. But that's about it.

My new SJ sounded awesome off the rack (I think Fuller's puts D'Addario's on when they set them up)...  I am not a D'Addario fan for my acoustics, but even with those strings, this guitar sounds great.  Can't wait to heart it with my favorite strings on it (Sunbeams).  But the tone is already there.

[PrairieDog]

Just now, ruger9 said:

This right here.  Strings aren't going to change things THAT much. A guitar is what it is, strings can be a bit of a "tone control", much like different picks can. But that's about it.

My new SJ sounded awesome off the rack (I think Fuller's puts D'Addario's on when they set them up)...  I am not a D'Addario fan for my acoustics, but even with those strings, this guitar sounds great.  Can't wait to heart it with my favorite strings on it (Sunbeams).  But the tone is already there.

Yeah, this seems to be the consensus.  It seems I made a wrong assumption that the mahogany square Hummingbird would still sound boomy like a J-45.  I have gathered a string change won’t magically make it sound like a J, chuckle.  

Now I just need to step back and reset my expectations. At least now I can decide on its own merits if I want to keep it just because it’s another lovely, articulate sounding guitar for finger style.  

Since I got it at a price I’m unlikely to see again, and assuming the speaker trick helps get it more open and balanced, I’m guessing it’s going to land a space in the rack, and I’ll be back in the hunt for thump. 

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

[rct]

10 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

...and assuming the speaker trick helps get it more open and balanced...

In the 70's it was the speaker trick and putting it on the clothes washer and dryer for days on end trick.  Neither trick did anything.

rct

[62burst]

10 hours ago, the other side said:

 . . . If it has a bone saddle, change it to tusq along with tusq bridge pins and use 12 guage regular phosphor bronze strings (DR Sunbeams would be where I'd  start). I found coated strings dampen sound slightly. Bone saddle and especially bone pins do not work on my Bird. 

Another vote here for the tusq saddle, pins too, I suppose. And personally, I like Elixirs (the less coated Nanowebs).  It Just seems to follow logic of- what would be more thump-inducing: a coated string or uncoated?

And while we’re at it, it might be helpful to define what is this thump that you are looking for? If you could post a YouTube video, and particularly, a time (t= ? )where it really shows the “thump“.

[Larsongs]

I agree, no matter what you do it will never be or sound like a J-45.

Do you leave it in the Case when not playing or on a Stand in your music room? I believe it Opens up more left out of the Case.. Not necessarily all the time though..

How many hours a day do you play it?

I do know from my own personal experience a New Set of Strings will make your Guitar sound different.. Usually better.. And different makes of Strings will have their own Sound. Some better, some worse..

It’s your quest.. You should get what you want.. And what you want to hear…

Good luck

Edited June 5 by Larsongs

[Ceptorman]

Can you send this guitar back? Unless you're wealthy and just like to collect guitars. Not gelling with an instrument is enough for me to send it back, I'm not a collector. Since you got a great deal, maybe you can make some money.

[J185cat]

Got 2 J45’s and 1 HB. Even the two J45’s are different from each other and both are quite different from the HB.   The HB is just a different animal. While mine has a strong bass the overall sound is that softer more mellow tone that I have always associated with them. It’s perfect for some things but not everything. Actually glad I have both although the J45’s get much more play.

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, Larsongs said:

I agree, no matter what you do it will never be or sound like a J-45.

Do you leave it in the Case when not playing or on a Stand in your music room? I believe it Opens up more left out of the Case.. Not necessarily all the time though..

How many hours a day do you play it?

I do know from my own personal experience a New Set of Strings will make your Guitar sound different.. Usually better.. And different makes of Strings will have their own Sound. Some better, some worse..

It’s your quest.. You should get what you want.. And what you want to hear…

Good luck

Literally have had it six days, 🙂.  I suspect it was kept mostly in the case for the last 4 years and not played much. It’s out now.  At the moment, I have to be careful about playing it too long at one time so I don’t get a reaction.  I’ve run it through some paces, but my wife has been doing most of the work trying it out. She actually really likes the neck, and she often finds my Gibsons troublesome to switch to. So who knows, it could be her decision in the end 😁 I’m all on board with that.  

As I mentioned at the beginning, it’s another “pretty” sounding guitar.  We seem to keep migrating to them.  They all fill their spaces, and this one adds another flavor.  I’m looking for something with a little more bottom, unrefined, and loud. Lets you know it’s in the room, if that makes sense😄

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, 62burst said:

Another vote here for the tusq saddle, pins too, I suppose. And personally, I like Elixirs (the less coated Nanowebs).  It Just seems to follow logic of- what would be more thump-inducing: a coated string or uncoated?

I started with Elixirs. They worked great for a few weeks, relieved I was back on track.  Then I couldn’t figure out why my fingers started going south on me again, til I looked close and realized the coating had worn off, right where I play of course.  And I think I got bits of in my fingers, on top of the allergy, it felt like I had been touching fiberglass.  Haven’t had the same problem with the Ddarrio’s, XS PBs.  

Re: the sound… I have picked up a couple used J-45s, that I’ve already explained I was stupid about, and when I strummed them, the whole store woke up.  Just a big, big boomy sound that said “This is a GUITAR!” I probably like the sound mostly because it’s so familiar,  after all, so many artists play them, chuckle.  

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, Ceptorman said:

Can you send this guitar back? Unless you're wealthy and just like to collect guitars. Not gelling with an instrument is enough for me to send it back, I'm not a collector. Since you got a great deal, maybe you can make some money.

Yeah, we have some weeks left on the return window.  One plus I will say for GC.  

We aren’t collectors so much as “adopters.”  We are in a happy place in our lives where we can indulge in a good deal if we come across one.  I’ve only made a couple missteps so far, the first went back, and this would be the second.  And, I’m still on the fence if it really is a mistake, or I just need to stop thinking it should be something else, and enjoy what it is.  

Anyway, our larking about has made for a bit of a menagerie in the music room.  

[ruger9]

3 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

Yeah, this seems to be the consensus.  It seems I made a wrong assumption that the mahogany square Hummingbird would still sound boomy like a J-45.  I have gathered a string change won’t magically make it sound like a J, chuckle.  

Now I just need to step back and reset my expectations. At least now I can decide on its own merits if I want to keep it just because it’s another lovely, articulate sounding guitar for finger style.  

Since I got it at a price I’m unlikely to see again, and assuming the speaker trick helps get it more open and balanced, I’m guessing it’s going to land a space in the rack, and I’ll be back in the hunt for thump. 

Thanks for the advice, everyone!

If you got it at that good a price, you could flip it for a profit to help finance a J45.

[E-minor7]

14 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

I’m going to try the speaker trick re the case queen angle.  Like Ego said, at least it’s free and I can try it within the return period.  

It's a mirage - at least in this context, believe me.

Put on the workhorse of steel : D'Addarios EJ16 and it'll tell it all (choose coating if you like). Keep them on if you decide to send it back - or re-string with the old. 

Still ! , , , let's not outcount the possibility that you actually turn on to the slightly alternative virtues of this short scale hog square. 

Such things happen ~ 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Strings are relatively cheap. Get online and order about 5 sets from different manufacturers. What I like may not be what you like, or sound good with the guitar wood, style and shape your trying to tame.

[62burst]

6 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

Re: the sound… I have picked up a couple used J-45s, that I’ve already explained I was stupid about, and when I strummed them, the whole store woke up.  Just a big, big boomy sound that said “This is a GUITAR!” I probably like the sound mostly because it’s so familiar,  after all, so many artists play them, chuckle.  

Big, boomy is something I more associate with the long-scale Martins, esp. the rosewood ones. Are you equating big/boomy with thump? I'd still like to hear a YouTube clip, even if it's only one t =  : x  timestamp of something that you'd characterize as "thump".  'Mostly want to know because I don't use the thump word, but have heard it thrown around. 

[E-minor7]

2 hours ago, 62burst said:

Big, boomy is something I more associate with the long-scale Martins, esp. the rosewood ones. Are you equating big/boomy with thump? I'd still like to hear a YouTube clip, even if it's only one t =  : x  timestamp of something that you'd characterize as "thump".  'Mostly want to know because I don't use the thump word, but have heard it thrown around. 

There is at least 1 serious thread about this topic in the Board back-catalog. Read you hang the thump up on short scale hog - I get the point and would like to ask :                                            The more vintage the more thump ?

Apart from that one of my comments in that approx 3 years old thread was about gettin' the T from fx M dreads as well. Okay, , perhaps a slightly different flavor, but basically providing the same satisfactory. Then again I'm no T-nerd nor addict. Think we need experts like the ones in that other discussion.  Buc, Murph, bbgrunt !?