Should I be worried that the Music Zoo hasn't heard back from the Gibson CS regarding my M2M order?

[Jericho-79]

OP here guys. I just got off the phone with Rick at MZ.

He confirmed that the CS doesn't usually provide updates to them regarding the progress of builds.

He assured me that as for as the CS goes, my order is in "Pending" status. He said this does NOT mean that the CS hasn't started the build. He said it just means that the order is pending fulfillment.

Lastly, he projected that my order should arrive at the dealership in less than 6 months or so.

Idk but this doesn't sound like a scam to me.

[PrairieDog]

45 minutes ago, Jericho-79 said:

OP here guys. I just got off the phone with Rick at MZ.

He confirmed that the CS doesn't usually provide updates to them regarding the progress of builds.

He assured me that as for as the CS goes, my order is in "Pending" status. He said this does NOT mean that the CS hasn't started the build. He said it just means that the order is pending fulfillment.

Lastly, he projected that my order should arrive at the dealership in less than 6 months or so.

Idk but this doesn't sound like a scam to me.

But, but, but! he didn’t “tell” you anything new! He literally just repeated what he told you before just pushed the date out again.  This is exactly how a scam is run.  

If this is legit, there should be no problem getting a copy of your ORDER from MZ on MZ letterhead, with the original date and details of the order, and with the MZ legalese that goes along with special ordering something. That is the only proof for what you handed your money over for.  

There is no guitar being built anywhere if MZ does not have a record of you actually ordering one.  The real MZ and Gibson DO NOT function on phone calls and vague assurances “it could be done.” Rick saying you could order one is meaningless if he didn’t place the order and get confirmation from Gibson they were willing to do it.  

The order only exists if it’s in the system, both MZ and Gibson’s.  All this leaves a record easy to pull up and give you.   You should have received this confirmation when you handed over your deposit.  

If it’s going to be another six months, then you may as well try asking “Rick” for your deposit back, and start over at another authorized M2M dealer, like Guitar Center.   Be prepared to deal with the trouble of proving what the money was for, but MZ should understand given they messed up the order in the first place.  They should have a copy of the deposit transaction in their books.  

Of course, if it’s a scam, well, expect to be stonewalled. 

Just saying, at another 6 months you are right back in the typical timeframe for a paint job custom order, with no other mods. Even if you are dealing with the real MZ they don’t deserve your business if they screwed up, didn’t place your order, and wasted your time.  

Edited June 21 by PrairieDog

[Larsongs]

40 minutes ago, Jericho-79 said:

OP here guys. I just got off the phone with Rick at MZ.

He confirmed that the CS doesn't usually provide updates to them regarding the progress of builds.

He assured me that as for as the CS goes, my order is in "Pending" status. He said this does NOT mean that the CS hasn't started the build. He said it just means that the order is pending fulfillment.

Lastly, he projected that my order should arrive at the dealership in less than 6 months or so.

Idk but this doesn't sound like a scam to me.

Wait! Pending Status? What does that even mean? You either have an Order or you don’t. No Order number, no Order.

If it were me, I’d call Gibson on the Phone. (Which  I’ve done many times when they’ve worked on my Guitars). I’d ask them what their normal procedure is to Order an M2M Guitar.

What’s to stop your Sales guy from cashing your check & go partying? Without an actual Order number, technically, I don’t see anything protecting you from being scammed.

Sorry, it’s just the world we’re living in today. 

[slimt]

2 hours ago, Jericho-79 said:

OP here guys. I just got off the phone with Rick at MZ.

He confirmed that the CS doesn't usually provide updates to them regarding the progress of builds.

He assured me that as for as the CS goes, my order is in "Pending" status. He said this does NOT mean that the CS hasn't started the build. He said it just means that the order is pending fulfillment.

Lastly, he projected that my order should arrive at the dealership in less than 6 months or so.

Idk but this doesn't sound like a scam to me.

Gibson does not give time lines.    With a 20 or 30,000 list of back orders.  Yours gets done when it gets done   
 

When I was ordering Actual Custom Shop acoustics back in the 90s.  Waiting in line was the normal.  I guess you have to be there to understand why.    

[PrairieDog]

10 minutes ago, slimt said:

Gibson does not give time lines.    With a 20 or 30,000 list of back orders.  Yours gets done when it gets done   
 

When I was ordering Actual Custom Shop acoustics back in the 90s.  Waiting in line was the normal.  I guess you have to be there to understand why.    

But now it seems this is not about patiently waiting in line with Gibson anymore.  I get CS orders take a long time.  

What Jericho just said is he has no order number or any paperwork showing he placed the order, just a  random receipt for a substantial deposit.  If Rick at MZ never placed the order with Gibson being patient isn’t going to make a purple guitar suddenly appear.  He doesn’t even know what the final price will be. 

All Jericho has gotten out of Rick is initial assurances a purple guitar could be ordered, and then repeatedly deferred estimates about wait times.  And Jericho has nothing to show the order was ever placed, for what and for how much. 

Something just seems very off.  Again, I hope I’m very very wrong and it shows up tomorrow.  

[Sgt. Pepper]

Pending he pay full price for a paint job on a guitar. All he made was a down payment of the amount of the total cost. If you gotta have purple then you gotta have it. This is down right ridiculous. Who’s to blame Gibson or MZ? 

Get your money back if you can. Or wait. Like I said it’s not my $. I have no dog in this race. 

Edited June 21 by Sgt. Pepper

['Scales]

Just my opinion…

1. there should be a set of t&c’s from Gibson noting that build time is not definitive and based on various factors, and noting any time up to which you can cancel your order and get full refund from their authorised retailer

2. there should be a clear contract (paper and digital) from MZ noting the specifics of your order and the reference number supplied by Gibson against the job

these would be in the interest of all parties as expectations and details are then agreed.

[PrairieDog]

7 minutes ago, 'Scales said:

Just my opinion…

1. there should be a set of t&c’s from Gibson noting that build time is not definitive and based on various factors, and noting any time up to which you can cancel your order and get full refund from their authorised retailer

2. there should be a clear contract (paper and digital) from MZ noting the specifics of your order and the reference number supplied by Gibson against the job

these would be in the interest of all parties as expectations and details are then agreed.

And Jericho says he has none of that

[Sgt. Pepper]

23 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

And Jericho says he has none of that

What he has is a boat in middle of a lake with no paddle. 

Buy used it’s what I do. Reap the rewards if you can of someone else not wanting something you do. Hopefully for a descant price.

Edited June 21 by Sgt. Pepper

['Scales]

29 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

And Jericho says he has none of that

And I said should be, not is/was

My guess is poor practices rather than scam however. Perhaps Phil the insider could offer some more definitive advice.

[Sgt. Pepper]

Question to Dave F? Did you pay a down payment or for the whole lump sum when you did your M2M guitars.

[PrairieDog]

8 minutes ago, 'Scales said:

And I said should be, not is/was

My guess is poor practices rather than scam however. Perhaps Phil the insider could offer some more definitive advice.

Naw, I get it, I just don’t think this has anything at all to do with Gibson.  Best case scenario is yeah, it’s a long wait.  2nd best, Rick forgot to put the order in a year ago and the phone call put him into but covering mode, and he just submitted it now, hence “6 more months” and Jericho is back to the end of the line again.  But in either case he should be given  a copy of the order.  

Worst case scenario, he is dealing with one of the MZ spoof sites, and Rick is just an offshore phone bank.  

 

Edited June 21 by PrairieDog

['Scales]

I think best case is what slimt said 3 hrs ago that Gibson is flat-knacker making loads of these and it takes longer than we’d ever of thought, and they specifically refuse to give updates cos they don’t need thousands of people or dealers ringing every damned month for updates and then all complaining they have “been waitin forever man, and you guys are d!cks for not putting me first in line“…which is why some clarity up front so potential customers know it might take years and the best you’ll get in the meantime is that your Rick will be advised we have the order and can confirm it’s pending.

[PrairieDog]

26 minutes ago, 'Scales said:

I think best case is what slimt said 3 hrs ago that Gibson is flat-knacker making loads of these and it takes longer than we’d ever of thought, and they specifically refuse to give updates cos they don’t need thousands of people or dealers ringing every damned month for updates and then all complaining they have “been waitin forever man, and you guys are d!cks for not putting me first in line“…which is why some clarity up front so potential customers know it might take years and the best you’ll get in the meantime is that your Rick will be advised we have the order and can confirm it’s pending.

Are you missing that HE DOESN”T HAVE ANY PROOF “RICK” EVEN PLACED THE ORDER? That is the what I’m talking about here.  Not CS lead times, production burdens or Gibson Customer service.

He handed over $1200 bucks on an assurance they “could” order his guitar.  All he got  was a “receipt” for the payment, with no order number or info about what he was buying, even what the final price would be. 

That is just not how special orders are handled, anywhere, for any store/any manufacturer.  

I’m leaving room for the potential that Rick just screwed up and didn’t place the original order correctly, but he should have by now, and MZ should give Jericho the paperwork to prove it. 

This is why Jericho needs to go over Rick’s head, and talk someone in the Business Office at MZ.  My guess is Rick is going to keep kicking it down the calendar, hoping Jericho will just give up.  

If they can’t produce the paper, then there is a good chance he’s been scammed, and pretty much the only way to find out is to ask for his deposit back and see if they come through. 

Edited June 21 by PrairieDog

['Scales]

Sure, but that isn’t a best case scenario in my book.

[slimt]

If he has money tied into the deal with a receipt.  To the OP.   Start making some noise.  Get it cleared up.     . . 

[PrairieDog]

2 minutes ago, 'Scales said:

Sure, but that isn’t a best case scenario in my book.

I’m just saying the best case is it is just an order mix up and MZ will do right by him and get him his guitar in the end.  And yes, he needs to stop dealing with Rick and talk with MZ management who can get him his paperwork.  And he needs to do that by going through the MZ legit site directly, not whatever number he is calling to talk to Rick. 

['Scales]

Hey, you could be right.

personally, I read Jerichos posts and figure: the MZ is nearby and he’s been there and discussed the order and paid and got a physical receipt ( and it’s not just some dude called Rick on a mobile) …that a year ago he was provided an estimate of May 2024 which is only like 3 weeks ago and was not concerned/prompted to ask until the year passed, and then MZ knew he had an order through them…that he didn’t even get a quote for the CS job so perhaps the money is not a major issue or consideration for him…that he has since made contact with MZ just now and been told it’s pending and expected in the months ahead.

PD, once more you may be assuming me naive, but I’d say if the guy who paid the money feels ok then he’s closest to it, and if the - 79 happens to mean he is 45 (appropriate to a CS buyer who probably knows his way around guitars, money and life) then I won’t be feeling any need to school him and hope he gets it quite soon.

[PrairieDog]

I’m sorry if you are feeling dissed.  That is always far from my intent.  I always get a lot from your comments.  I do think if anyone is a bit naive it’s the OP.   Even folks who think 1,200 bucks is pin money expect SOs to be handled by the book. The OP didn’t  seem to understand a receipt is not an order.  He doesn’t seem to be familiar with how special orders work and he keeps calling the same guy, even after several folks, not just me, have tried to coach him on how to check things are kosher and move things forward.  but yeah, I’ve said what I can here.  I do wish him the best and a sparkly purple guitar shows up in his rack.  

Edited June 22 by PrairieDog

[NighthawkChris]

The moral of the story, screw MZ. I wouldn’t buy a pick from these guys ever again after my experience with them. Not saying scam here, but rather poor service/quality. 

I agree with the claim about paperwork being needed if I deposit any sort of payment. 

I also defer back to what I said about not understanding you guys that buy these custom guitars for the money they do and wait ungodly periods of time for wires and wood with paint on it.

Like @Sgt. Pepper said, buy used… It’s what I do and have for years. I haven’t waited but more than a week or so give or take for any piece of gear I’ve acquired. Like with cars and the like, there is a sucker tax to be paid for new crap. Just wait until the imperfections of this long awaited custom guitar shaped object come to light. Not for me… no thank you. Not for that kind of money. 

[RBSinTo]

48 minutes ago, NighthawkChris said:

The moral of the story, screw MZ. I wouldn’t buy a pick from these guys ever again after my experience with them. Not saying scam here, but rather poor service/quality. 

I agree with the claim about paperwork being needed if I deposit any sort of payment. 

I also defer back to what I said about not understanding you guys that buy these custom guitars for the money they do and wait ungodly periods of time for wires and wood with paint on it.

Like @Sgt. Pepper said, buy used… It’s what I do and have for years. I haven’t waited but more than a week or so give or take for any piece of gear I’ve acquired. Like with cars and the like, there is a sucker tax to be paid for new crap. Just wait until the imperfections of this long awaited custom guitar shaped object come to light. Not for me… no thank you. Not for that kind of money. 

Chris,

I agree completely with you.

The allure of new, and custom-made guitars has always eluded me.

While years ago at different times I did own three brand-new guitars, the six I currently own, starting in 1979 were purchased used, and are off-the-shelf  models. And amazingly, they all sound and play exactly like their custom-made cousins, at a fraction of the cost.

RBSinTo

[Jericho-79]

OP here guys. I just need to clarify a few things.

I visit the Music Zoo's website quite often, and Rick has his own professional profile there.

During Q1 of last year, Rick and I were playing phone/email tag in regards to specs and payment.

In February 2023, Rick emailed me with a quote of $6099 for the total build. He then asked me for my billing address.

In early March, he sent me an invoice that had the MZ letterhead, an invoice number, an invoice date, a "Bill To (my address)", and a QR code (to Scan Pay Go).

The invoice also contained an "Items & Description" column that contained the phrase "Les Paul Custom Build Deposit" with an SO number.

Once my payment cleared in a few days, Rick told me that their rep at the CS wanted me to confirm the hardware color.

The day after that, Rick emailed me and said that he had just confirmed with their rep at the CS that my M2M order has been officially submitted.

That following summer, I asked Rick for an update and he informed me that their rep at the CS gave him an expected delivery date of early May 2024.

I then left the matter alone for the following year.

[NighthawkChris]

7 minutes ago, Jericho-79 said:

OP here guys. I just need to clarify a few things.

I visit the Music Zoo's website quite often, and Rick has his own professional profile there.

During Q1 of last year, Rick and I were playing phone/email tag in regards to specs and payment.

In February 2023, Rick emailed me with a quote of $6099 for the total build. He then asked me for my billing address.

In early March, he sent me an invoice that had the MZ letterhead, an invoice number, an invoice date, a "Bill To (my address)", and a QR code (to Scan Pay Go).

The invoice also contained an "Items & Description" column that contained the phrase "Les Paul Custom Build Deposit" with an SO number.

Once my payment cleared in a few days, Rick told me that their rep at the CS wanted me to confirm the hardware color.

The day after that, Rick emailed me and said that he had just confirmed with their rep at the CS that my M2M order has been officially submitted.

That following summer, I asked Rick for an update and he informed me that their rep at the CS gave him an expected delivery date of early May 2024.

I then left the matter alone for the following year.

Thanks for sharing and putting some of this to bed. I hope your experience with MZ is better than what my personal experience was. Even though I wouldn’t go down your path to get a CS M2M, I sincerely hope you get what you want and don’t have issues with what you waited for the period of time you have… it would bother me if something got screwed up in this entire process. 

[PrairieDog]

21 minutes ago, Jericho-79 said:

OP here guys. I just need to clarify a few things.

I visit the Music Zoo's website quite often, and Rick has his own professional profile there.

During Q1 of last year, Rick and I were playing phone/email tag in regards to specs and payment.

In February 2023, Rick emailed me with a quote of $6099 for the total build. He then asked me for my billing address.

In early March, he sent me an invoice that had the MZ letterhead, an invoice number, an invoice date, a "Bill To (my address)", and a QR code (to Scan Pay Go).

The invoice also contained an "Items & Description" column that contained the phrase "Les Paul Custom Build Deposit" with an SO number.

Once my payment cleared in a few days, Rick told me that their rep at the CS wanted me to confirm the hardware color.

The day after that, Rick emailed me and said that he had just confirmed with their rep at the CS that my M2M order has been officially submitted.

That following summer, I asked Rick for an update and he informed me that their rep at the CS gave him an expected delivery date of early May 2024.

I then left the matter alone for the following year.

So yeah, wth, you do have an order?  Why the hell did you say “all you had is a reciept and I don’t have an order number?” Thanks for being clear as mud here and getting folks worked up and worried for you.  So yah, Just keep waiting, it will get to you.  Sparkle on.  

Edited June 22 by PrairieDog

[Sgt. Pepper]

I’m off to listen to The Grateful Dead. This has been a total waste of time. First all he has is a receipt for a deposit, now he suddenly has all the info. $6099 for a purple LP. Wow. I hope it’s worth it and the wait endured. Not even if I had the cash coming out of my arse wound I pay 6k for a LP.