standard/traditional

[pippy]

There might be some Traditionals and Custom Shop (Historic) les pauls available that do sound warm' date=' full and rich. However, most new les pauls are just too trebly, thin and woody, mostly because of the chambers, insane light weight and new (crap) wood. Old wood basically tends to sound fuller and warmer on a les paul.[/quote']

 

My experience exactly. I would hesitate to say all new wood is crap but the instruments built by Gibson USA (as opposed to the Custom Shop) do invariably seem to have an emphasis in the upper-mid frequencies.

 

Hi Bram, How you doing?

[DeVinci13]

I checked my 2009 Les Paul Traditional Honey Burst. It has a 2 piece back.

 

I also weighed it at work. I work in a water/waster water laboratory. It weighs 4.3775 kg. Which is 154.411 ounces. Which is 9 pounds 10.4 ounces. Pretty heavy guitar. Can't help wonder what it would have weighed without the 9 swisscheese holes in it.

[Big Bill]

I checked my 2009 Les Paul Traditional Honey Burst. It has a 2 piece back.

 

I also weighed it at work. I work in a water/waster water laboratory. It weighs 4.3775 kg. Which is 154.411 ounces. Which is 9 pounds 10.4 ounces. Pretty heavy guitar. Can't help wonder what it would have weighed without the 9 swisscheese holes in it.

 

I was looking at my Traditional last night (without pulling the pups) and I really had to look hard to see if it was a two piece mahogany back. I think I seen what was a seam, bit it was way off center to be sure. If it is a seam, Gibson did a hell of a job matching the grain. :-

[ant7629]

Just checked my Traditional, definitely one piece back.

[DaveS]

I have a 2008 Standard (which is fantastic) and it has a one piece back

[Big Bill]

Just checked my Traditional' date=' definitely one piece back.[/quote']

 

If I had to give a yes or no answer if my Traditional had a one piece back, I would say yes. Since I'm a newbie to the real world of the Lester, I have a bit of uncertainty. (My sight is fading as is my hearing. :-)

[Elias]

But also, there is some vintage les paul (30 years or even more) that are made of 2 pieces back.

Some people say that all the Gibson USA are made of 2 pieces back and just the custom shop are made from one piece of wood.

 

Now.. wich is the diefference?? i´ve played both of it... 2 pieces and one piece.. and to my ear. was pretty much the same sound..

 

so, is there any big difference??

[dmeds]

But also, there is some vintage les paul (30 years or even more) that are made of 2 pieces back.

Some people say that all the Gibson USA are made of 2 pieces back and just the custom shop are made from one piece of wood.

 

Now.. wich is the diefference?? i´ve played both of it... 2 pieces and one piece.. and to my ear. was pretty much the same sound..

 

so, is there any big difference??

 

Before selecting my Trad and R8, I sampled many LP's; both solid and 2 piece. While I think we tend to add more value to a single solid piece LP, I believe it comes down to the dynamics of the particular guitar. Some of the 2 piece LP's that I sampled sounded far more resonant that the solid ones. Granted, when Gibson crafts a custom LP, I'm sure they reserve their finest woods for that build. However, it does not mean you can't find a resonant and musical Trad whether it be a solid or 2 piece body. My Trad is a 2 piece that I selected out of many because of it's tonal characteristics. It was just right for me. My R8 is indeed a solid one piece guitar that weighs much lighter than my Trad (8.4 lbs vs 9.6 lbs.) Then again I paid nearly twice as much for it.They both have their unique place in and among my guitar stable. YMMV Cheers! Play on!

 

BTW, one of the easiest ways to spot whether a guitar is solid or two piece is to look at the base where the strap pin is. Most times you can spot the opposing grain in the form of a "V".

[Bram]

While I think we tend to add more value to a single solid piece LP' date=' I believe it comes down to the dynamics of the particular guitar. Some of the 2 piece LP's that I sampled sounded far more resonant that the solid ones. Granted, when Gibson crafts a custom LP, I'm sure they reserve their finest woods for that build. However, it does not mean you can't find a resonant and musical Trad whether it be a solid or 2 piece body.[/quote']

 

From personal experiences I never expect a solid body les paul to be very resonant, loud or lively unplugged, especially not when I compare it next to a chambered les paul. Chambered les pauls always seem to be more resonant and much louder unplugged. For example: play a (medium) heavy solid body les paul from 10 or 11 lbs next to a chambered les paul from 6 or 7 lbs...the chambered les paul will most likely be more resonant and alive unplugged, while the solid les paul will be softer in both volume and tone (but maybe 'sweeter' too). That doesn't mean that the solid les paul sounds dull or dark. Sometimes without an amp it's just hard to hear the real tonal qualities of an electric guitar, especially if the guitar aint loud unplugged.

 

A solid body Les Paul really comes alive plugged-in. It's true that the more (clean) volume you add to it, the more the tone 'opens up'...the solid body will give you a big, warm and rich tone with plenty of clarity and punch because of the added amp volume. Very quiet too.

 

You always need to play it loud through a decent tube amp to find out why many people add more value to the solid body.

[Bram]

The perfect example of a solid body les paul custom (10.7 lbs): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvYxqyNazXQ

[Voodoo Blues]

Wow, Thanks bobv, you just sold me on a traditional. That was a great post.

 

 

 

 

Having just selected a Traditional over a Standard' date=' I'd point out that the Traditional is a few dollars cheaper at the moment. Think of it this way, they made so many changes to the specifications of the Standard in 2008 that they knew there would be reactionaries like us who didn't think there was anything wrong with the old way of making them, so for us there's the Traditional. Here are a few differences Trad/Std:

 

Traditionals have weight relief (nine holes...) like they've been using since about 1983 (except for Historics, of course) and they are heavy guitars / Standards are chambered like they've been doing to Standards since mid 2006 or 2007 (scary if you ask me, the guitars are too light to feel like a Les Paul IMHO, besides how can they say it's strategically located and then say that it creates a different resonance and tone? OK enough ranting, make up your own mind on that one)

 

"Fifties" rounded neck profile / Asymmetrical neck profile (Standards used to be available in 50s or 60s slim taper). The neck profile alone can be a deal breaker - make sure you can get used to it. It took me a few guitars to get there (I grew up on a Hagstrom with a paper-thin neck, to a few Strats with thinn-ish necks, to a Tele with a rounder neck, and now the Traditional with a nice round heft - I'm still not ready for a Historic with the baseball bat neck size...).

 

'57 Classic and '57 Classic Plus pickups (alnico II, even coil windings like they thought they were making with the PAF's / Burstbucker "Pro" (Alnico V) pickups (uneven coil windings for a grittier sound presuming that they had no quality control in the fifties and the pickup bobbins were all unmatched). You might predict that the Pros are hotter for today's metal types, or that they're meant to compensate for the tone difference of a hollow body, but you need to hear it for yourself.

 

Tone Pros "Kluson" vintage style tuners with bolt bushings and butterscotch keystone knobs / Grover locking tuners with metal knobs. Both of these are an upgrade from prior models of Standards.

 

Chrome jack plate (a common upgrade) / plastic jack plate (like they've always had, subject to breaking but it's nice to have a weakest link in the chain so the screws don't pull out of the wood or do any other damage...)

 

Gibson pots on a metal mounting plate / Bourns pots on a printed circuit board.

 

Standard jack / Neutric locking jack (you can't see under there to begin with, and you have to fumble for a latch?)

 

Nashville tune-o-matic bridge and regular stop tailpiece (rumored to be made by Ping and no longer by Schaller in Germany) / Tone Pros locking bridge and tailpiece (with allen setscrews holding them on, rumored to be made by Gotoh). By now you can, unfortunately, expect that either model is going to have pre-notched saddles instead of the custom string spacing that we used to see from Gibson.

 

The traditionals are not specified as such, but you are very very likely to get a one-piece mahogany back with a nice grain to it on a Traditional. The Standards, on the other hand, will have a two, or even three, piece back.

 

Traditionals have "speed" barrel-shaped knobs to evoke, I kid you not, the vintage vibe of the early eighties (ouch) / Standards have the top-hat or bell shaped knobs.

 

Traditionals have the little dinky strap pins so, please, put Schaller strap locks on there. The Standards already have Dunop strap lock studs on them.

 

Traditionals have a short neck tenon like they've been using since early to mid 1969 / Standards (from 2008) have a new CNC large gourd-shaped tenon.

 

I left the trussrod cover with the white "Traditional" script undisturbed. Those who notice it probably appreciate what it means.

 

I'm just waiting for DaveInSpain to tell me it's time to change avatars. But here's a shot of mine:

 

[img']http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/bobv_photo/IMG_3844.jpg[/img]

 

 

[Gibson For Life]

I was all set on buying a traditional, but ended up with a new standard instead,

after trying several of both models, the particular guitar i bought was hard to put down,

It played, sounded & felt amazing, The guitar just clicked for me.

So before deciding on either model play them both and get the one that is right for you.

Its a personal choice & should never be based on other peoples opinions.

[bobv]

Gibson usually puts crappy finishes on the Non-Custom shop Les Pauls.

 

Who told you that?

 

I did hear a salesman suggest that they don't use nitrocellulose on the production guitars (trying to sell me on a historic) which of course is complete misinformation.

 

There are some changes in the finishes, but it does not mean the main factory doesn't know what they're doing. They don't use the same grain filler with dye in it that they use on the historics so the production models (1) do not have the red bleeding onto the binding and (2) are not meant to simulate a faded washed cherry color.

 

But, case in point, this is not a "crap" finish. As discussed in a few posts above, it's an Iced Tea.

[max2343]

The perfect example of a solid body les paul custom (10.7 lbs): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvYxqyNazXQ

 

The Dude Paint's his Finger nails

[Silverbursted]

Thanks bobv, excellent analysis.

Pretty nice top, particularly when you stand it next to a gorgeous example of an R9!!!

[bobv]

Thank you, Silver. Just goes to show you need t shop and see a bunch. It's the beauty of wood that each one is different.