Pickup suggestions

[mooboo]

I'm really loving the sound of my CL-30 acoustically. However, it seems as though when I plug it in, my guitar sounds like a 300$ epiphone. Maybe not that bad. But acoustically it's a 9.7, plugged in it's probably a 6.

I'm wanting to ditch my piezo for an under the bridge pickup with bone nut.

Any suggestions? I'd like just a natural sound. Don't really care about eq.

P.s. Has anyone heard of the quackbuster pickup running in sequence with a piezo?

[Taylor Player]

Hi mooboo,

 

I have a UST in my Taylor that I had installed when I got the guitar back in 1994. It's a nice pickup and sounds good in the Taylor, but it is not as natural sounding as the K & K Pure Western Mini pickups I have installed in both Gibsons. They are passive so you don't need to modify your guitar at all. No battery needed inside. I find the output to be excellent and rarely do I even plug into my LR Baggs PARA DI which gives some eq and boost to the K & K. With my Genz Benz amp, I really have not needed to boost either of the guitars and the amp has all the EQ I would ever need.

 

The thing is, the K & K Pure Western Mini is relatively inexpensive. I had both mine installed and the total cost for the pickup and install at the Podium was around $175 if I remember correctly. The sound from the K & K is pure Gibson. There is no piezo quack at all.

[bkharmony]

I'm wanting to ditch my piezo for an under the bridge pickup with bone nut.

Any suggestions? I'd like just a natural sound. Don't really care about eq.

 

I'd been conditioned to hate the sound of undersaddle pickups til I heard the LR Baggs Element. I'm totally sold on them. I've got three now, as a matter of fact. For my money, the best undersaddle pickup you can buy.

 

http://www.lrbaggs.com/EAS.htm

 

And of course, as most everyone here will agree, Bob Colosi makes amazing bone (and other) saddles. Cannot go wrong with his stuff!

 

http://www.guitarsaddles.com/

[bkharmony]

Wait - did you mean under saddle or a bridge pickup?

 

The LR Baggs iBeam is highly regarded (I'm getting one soon, I think), as is the K&K Pure Western Mini

 

http://www.lrbaggs.com/AudioPages/ibas.htm

 

http://elderly.com/new_instruments/items/KK3.htm

[drathbun]

I gotta say that the active Baggs iBeam is the best acoustic pickup I've ever heard. I've installed them in four guitars... none of which I own anymore, but they are the most natural sounding warm pickup I've experienced.

 

I've not played one, but there are a LOT of kudos out there for the K&K Western Mini as well.

[mooboo]

I was asking for suggestions for under the bridge.. Thanks and I'll check into them!

[drathbun]

I was asking for suggestions for under the bridge.. Thanks and I'll check into them!

 

Both the iBeam and the K&K Pure Western Mini are under bridge pickups. Technically they are under bridge PLATE pickups.

 

The pickup type that goes IN the bridge, under the saddle, are called under-saddle pickups.

 

Edit: NVM... I thought you were responding to me.

[mooboo]

Can these under bridge plate pickups be installed by an amateur or should it be done by a professional?

[bkharmony]

Can these under bridge plate pickups be installed by an amateur or should it be done by a professional?

 

Pro.

[Taylor Player]

I would recommend a pro install them, but I do know of several people who have done their own anyhow and been successfull. If you go slow and follow the directions it shouldn't be too hard. For me, it was worth having the pro do it. For under $200 you can buy the pickup and have it installed and done right is worth it to me as I am a klutz and would surely do something wrong.

[Murph]

For me' date=' it was worth having the pro do it. For under $200 you can buy the pickup and have it installed and done right is worth it to me as I am a klutz and would surely do something wrong. [/quote']

 

I'll drink to that!

 

Well, 6 weeks and 1 day ago I would have........

 

[mooboo]

You're right.. Anything done to a Gibson should be done by a pro. What does the plate portion of the pickup do? I assume the 3 antenna looking things are the actual pickups.

[drathbun]

You're right.. Anything done to a Gibson should be done by a pro. What does the plate portion of the pickup do? I assume the 3 antenna looking things are the actual pickups.

 

 

To which pickup do you refer? The K&K has three pickup pieces which you can place to customize the sound of your guitar to taste by shifting them on the bridge plate (the photo below has a guitar bridge plate just for illustration purposes... it is part of the guitar not the pickup). The other part is the endpin jack.

 

 

The iBeam has a pickup bar that affixes to the bridge plate with adhesive foam which can be moved around to change the sound balance. The active iBeam incorporates the preamp in the endpin jack assembly.

 

 

The only part of the installation that requires any REAL tool skill is installing the endpin jack in a guitar that has no existing pre-drilled hole. You either have to use a reamer or drill the hole with a Forstner bit. This takes a bit of skill and some real ca-hones to do to a fine guitar. The first one I did was a new $1500 Larrivee. Once you've done one, the rest are easier, but the first one is a real character builder.

 

If you have a guitar with a pre-drilled hole for an endpin jack, the installation of both these pickups is dead simple.

[mjg]

Go K&K Pure Mini over the IBean. Much more natural and dimensional sound. Technically is reads sound all around and not just linear - left and right. For those that have tried both, you can hear the difference.

 

By the way, they are SBT's - sound board transducers. UST's are under saddle transducers.

 

Although you don't really need it, I love having the K&K XLR preamp for tone shaping and feedback control. The LR Baggs PADI works great as well but the K&K has perfect impedance matching and has a slightly cleaning, warmer sound as they were built to be compatible. The PADI is more for piezo pickups...UST's.

[mooboo]

So much info! Thank you all!

I'm really wanting to ditch my piezo style pickup in my CL for a straight bone saddle setup with SBT's for amplification. The piezo I have now sounds amazing until you get a buz, and then you hear the piezo "quack".. Makes my high end gibson sound like a low end epiphone.

[MisterGibs]

Throw out and away that piezzo.

Put inside some L.R.Baggs iBeam active and you will HEAR a sound.

I have an L.R.Baggs iBeam active in my "GALE".

[albertjohn]

Last week I played my mates Adam Black 12er which has had one of these fitted. The 12er has a great sound acoustically and plays very well but the electronics were rubbish. It now sounds amazing with one of these. I think its the simple version hooked up to the existing under saddle piezo.

 

http://mi-si.com/products/

[milod]

Greetings from the stone age of EA guitars... <grin>

 

I tried everything available up until around '75. I tried contact mikes that were sold for the purpose before piezo was invented for guitars; I played a coupla acoustics that had "hidden" magnetic pickups at the end of the fingerboard and soundhole mag pickups of various sorts. Even a "clamp on" magnetic pickup for archtop I still have.

 

Then I ended up with two very early EA Ovations, one nylon, one steel string. My "new" cheapie 12 has a soundhole mag pickup that I think is fine. In fact, I think it sounds as good or better that way than guitars that cost 10 times as much with piezo EA. But then, a lot of that may be messing with amplification settings.

 

After many years of gear acquisition syndrome, I agree stuff is geometrically better today... But... It's not a direct line from guitar to listener's ear. Poorly handled, the "beautiful expensive guitar" signal from a "better" system will not be heard with as good tone as a lesser system handled with a reality check as well as sound check.

 

Any "electric" stuff will affect the sound. People would knock my Ovations in the mid 1970s 'cuz they were A) plastic and EA. Their Martins - usually - were much, much better. Well, in my living room I have to agree. Their heavier strings also handled Bluegrass far better than my 10-46s ever did, full acoustic or EA.

 

But on stage even my antique EA boxes wired into a board in a big venue, or into a smaller PA/amp, beat any mike/pa setup I've seen. It's not the PA or the $1,000 mike asmuch as the picker, distances to the mike, etc. It's getting sound to audience. Frankly I think the cheapie 12 with the magnetic soundhole pickup sounds better than any EA or mike setup I might imagine for a better quality box. Not "perfect," but it'd take more than a cupla grand to beat it.

 

Strings make a huge difference. Some seem to like one type of EA setup better than others on a given guitar. You also have EQ to be concerned about because no matter how you define it, the electronics are largely in charge of defining what will be heard from the guitar.

 

Oh - Someplace I think I still have an old contact mike you'd clamp into the soundhole. Argh. That's the one I will badmouth, although I think a lotta mandolin and fiddle pickers did pretty well with 'em 40 years ago.

 

Bottom line: You've gotta realize you're now playing an electric guitar and work the amplification system. Period.

 

m

[Hoss]

K& K might not work for you-- it will depend on your playing style.

 

Although I'd heard good things about K&K, I asked a terrific pro guitar player about them and he was adamant against the K&K.

[kebob]

K& K might not work for you-- it will depend on your playing style.

 

Although I'd heard good things about K&K' date=' I asked a terrific pro guitar player about them and he was adamant against the K&K. [/size']

 

Can you expound on this? What style are you referring to?

[zeebee]

I've installed two K&K's in my personal guitars...no biggie if you take it slow. Realize, I have to call over a buddy to help change a light bulb so I am in no way a "tool" guy. In any event the K&K's are outstanding in some environs but can suffer feedback issues on a loud stage. If you do go the K&K route use the glue on method rather than the tape option.

[grOOved]

Context is everything.

 

For full band, I don't like the K&K, Ibeam, B-Band AST, McIntyre or any other bridge plate transducer. They don't cut well and tend to ring too much - you can have feedback problems and unwanted noise due to the slightest aspects causing string vibration.

 

I do prefer them for acoustic "unplugged" style gigs because they sound woody and natural.

 

For full band, I agree that the Baggs Element is the best I've every heard. It cuts well and has a very pleasant 3-dimensional/percussive tone.

[onewilyfool]

Pickup suggestions???? Here's some I 've heard bachelors use over the years.....

 

 

1. You've got 206 bones in your body, want one more?

2. I may not be the best looking guy in here, but I'm the only one

talking to you.

3. I'm fighting the urge to make you the happiest woman on earth

tonight.

4. Those clothes would look great in a crumpled heap on my bedroom

floor.

5. My name is (name)...remember that, you'll be screaming it later.

6. Do you believe in love at first sight or should I walk by again?

7. Hi, I'm Mr. Right. Someone said you were looking for me.

8. My friend wants to know if YOU think I'M cute.

9. Hi. The voices in my head told me to come over and talk to you.

10. I know milk does a body good, but DAMN, how much have you been

drinking?

11. Do you sleep on your stomach? Can I???

12. Do you wash your pants in Windex? Because I can see myself in them.

13. I lost my puppy. Can you help me find him? I think he went into this

cheap motel room.

14. If I told you, you had a good body, would you hold it against me?

[Hoss]

Can you expound on this? What style are you referring to?

 

I'd always heard good things about K&K' date=' and I liked this guy's playing style. So I asked him about his experience (if any) with K&K and he told me he 'couldn't rip it out of there fast enough!'.

 

I took that to mean he didn't like it.

 

He said that his arm tends to come in contact a lot with the top of the guitar, and that this was picked up by the unit. He flatpicked and fingerpicked, but his picking forearm was all over the guitar.

 

(He was playing a great sounding, Large soundhole H&D Slope, by the way. VERY Gibsonesque--I had my old J45 and we tossed them back and forth. If Gibson should ever stop making guitars, I do believe that H&D would work out nicely.)

[milod]

Been readin' this... I know this is going to sound as if I'm either "evil" or "unrealistic" to flattop purists, but folks, we're talking about electric guitars here. I gave up on that in the mid 1970s, I guess, and before that I was of the "even a mike is probably evil for 'real guitar' music."

 

Then reality intruded.

 

Once any sort of pickup is added to a guitar, it's "electric." Taken from that point, now one has to determine how best to get the sound through an amp to the audience. Some bluegrassers have become quite good at using mikes, but we're not on that at this point - it's stuff in or on the guitar that is the topic.

 

I dunno.

 

From my perspective no amplification will give the same sound as an acoustic guitar sounds on a quiet night outside. In fact, each acoustic guitar will, just as electric guitar amped sounds will, sound different in different environments depending on the positioning of the listener vs the sound source.

 

If I sound as if I don't consider this a point of religion, but of using various equipment to get a sound. <grin> Yup.

 

Because of the nature of a flattop, there will have to be some compromises made when one uses an "add on" to amplify the sound for an audience. What's the best compromise? It depends on oodles of factors. The first considerations should be, "what's the nature of my guitar and how do I plan to play it in what kind of venue."

 

Once that's been determined, the rest should be a lot easier.

 

m