10 reasons why vintage guitars are not worth the money

[Zaphod B]

It makes perfect sense.

 

So' date=' you're telling me that if Gibson produced complete crap for 50 (or even 100) years straight and all of those guitars were basically worthless today, that a new Gibson could sell for $5,000+? Get real.

 

I'm not talking about bad years or periods here or there, but for the entire life of the company...just pure crap.[/quote']

I do recognize an intrinsic value in a line of product that has a consistently high level of quality over the years, most importantly in the sense that the company has a reputation of standing behind the product long-term. But when the early examples of these products enter the alternative universe of collectibility their value becomes unrelated to anything exept what people are willing to pay for them.

 

About your example - I think it's a bit extreme, so let's use a more realistic one.

 

The auto company Hyundai initially had a reputation in the US as building cars that were short on reliability, style, performance, and comfort - in fact, the only thing they had to offer was a very low price. Now, a couple of decades later Hyundai is slowly becoming recognized as building cars that have improved in all categories while still remaining affordable. No, they're not competing with BMW or Mercedes, but no one is laughing at them any more. And they have a very good warranty to back up the product.

 

My point is that a company's reputation is only as good as the products that it is selling right now.

 

What do today's Lincoln autos have to do with the high-lux Lincolns of the 1920s and '30s? Nothing. Today everyone recognizes them as the tarted-up Fords that they are. There is no cachet for a modern Lincoln owner relating to that coach-built 1930 Lincoln that just went across the auction block for $1,500,00.

 

Tim, we may just have to agree to disagree on the subject. For me as a Gibson owner the whole point is that they are a tool that fits my needs as a guitarist. Any guitar that costs a **** pot of mony and will lose value if played or serviced is useless as a tool and simply does not factor into my perception of the product line in general.

 

I respect your opinion as well, I just don't see it that way.

[This one goes to 11]

For me as a Gibson owner the whole point is that they are a tool that fits my needs as a guitarist. Any guitar that costs a **** pot of mony and will lose value if played or serviced is useless as a tool and simply does not factor into my perception of the product line in general.

 

I have to agree with that sentiment. If I had a "58-'60 & didn't need the money then I'd play it. It's just a guitar - VERY special, very precious, very beautiful - but it's just a guitar.

[Thundergod]

i dont get this guy... why does he hate gibson so much? i agree the so called vintage market is sh¡t... no one in his right mind is paying a gazillion dolars for a guitar, ok he is buying her as an investment, well, wait till he tries to sell her...

[saturn]

i dont get this guy... why does he hate gibson so much? i agree the so called vintage market is sh¡t... no one in his right mind is paying a gazillion dolars for a guitar' date=' ok he is buying her as an investment, well, wait till he tries to sell her... [/quote']

 

If you mean Ed Roman, he seems to hate every guitar that isn't made by or for his shop. But he really has a beef with Gibson. Probably because they're the biggest target. It's funny that he bashes certain makers, like Baker, and then he gets some deal with them and now they're the best guitars in the world! Theres even accusations that he writes reviews for his own crap under different names on sites like Harmony-Central. Don't know if it's true or not, but when you read wildly different reviews of his guitars it seems very plausible. Whether or not you agree with his views, almost everyone agrees he's a total A..hole.

[hparadis1]

This is the thread which leads me to the forum. BTW, the guy is Frank Lucido, not Ed, and I really liked his analogies about vintage guitars, in general. Although I agreed with Ed at the disclaimer about how he was going too far with some of the issues such as stolen guitars, I thought he made a lot of sense.

[Thundergod]

 

If you mean Ed Roman' date=' he seems to hate every guitar that isn't made by or for his shop. But he really has a beef with Gibson. Probably because they're the biggest target. It's funny that he bashes certain makers, like Baker, and then he gets some deal with them and now they're the best guitars in the world! Theres even accusations that he writes reviews for his own crap under different names on sites like Harmony-Central. Don't know if it's true or not, but when you read wildly different reviews of his guitars it seems very plausible. Whether or not you agree with his views, almost everyone agrees he's a total A..hole. [/quote']

 

I agree... he is!

[blackLP]

I will take that 10K bet any day of the week.

If you can't hear or feel the difference between a 50s Les Paul

and a new Les Paul or a early 60s strat and a new strat, then

you don't play or hear very well. All monies aside, there is a vast difference.

 

 

- the owner of the other "only 12-string SG".

A '63 white.

[KSG_Standard]

In 1986 I bought an all original 1975 Les Paul Deluxe with a red sparkle top and mini-humbuckers at a pawn shop in Houston. I paid $300 for the guitar, it was in perfect condition with no wear or scratches and it was pretty cool looking too. I played that guitar for a few years and sold it in 1992 for $800. I hated the way that guitar sounded, I could never get the sound I wanted out of those mini HBs. Luckily for me, by the early 1990's the japanese were buying up all of the vintage guitars that they could find and the prices went through the roof. Today this same guitar is worth a lot more because they did not make very many in this color.

 

Prices for vintage guitars are astoundingly high today, IMHO not because they sound so much better or are built so much better, but because most of the western world has gotten so much wealthier with so much more disposable income and these vintage guitars have turned into pretty good investments and fun collectables. I'm a working man and I play all of my guitars, I personally think it's stupid to buy musical instruments as artwork. That's just my opinion, many of you might not agree.

 

I'd be willing to make the same bet as Ed Roman and bet that most blindfolded people couldn't tell the difference between the sound of a vintage axe vs. a new axe. Most of tone comes from the picker, not the guitar. To each his own...

[Dynadude]

I agree with a lot of the guys points. Most vintage guitars are WAY over priced/over valued, unless you can prove their provenance, or they are just a rare museum piece, and their value then can be attributed only to their history.

 

PAFs have never been all that for me. Sure, they are a great pickup, but no better than most any other full size HB Gibson ever produced. I'd much rather have another guitar or two, than spend a ton on a set of pickups that most any good builder could reproduce. Heck, even most of the reproductions are over priced!

 

If you have a lot of money to spend on a guitar, have one built to your own specs by a good builder. You will be much happier with it in the long run, and it will have more personal value to you than any "vintage".

[Murph]

A real vintage instrument will have a history. Whether it was used on a Gold record, or not. If that is what makes it special to you, whatever.

 

I bought a 1933 Gibson A-00 mandolin fron Gruhns this year for $2000.00 because it belonged to Scotty Stoneman, and was a damned good sounding 1933 Gibson mandolin. My research of Scotty Stoneman turned up other things, and the plot thickens. I have since spoken to Donna Stoneman.

 

But I don't believe anything is overpriced. As long as someone is willing to pay the price, that is the price.

 

Free markets work that way.

 

Now, once the Government steps in, bailing out business, ect........ The gloves come off.

 

But the market will still decide.

 

Eventually.

 

Murph.

[Robwilkens]

I found this on a "Frank Lucido" search on Google wondering what happened to him.

Frank was the first "vintage guitar" expert I sought advice from way back in the early eighties.

He was very helpful and I always and still have high respect for him and his opinion.

 

So Frank, you seem bitter about the vintage guitar market? Being in it for almost thirty years myself

and with your original help I could agree with most of what you said.

It's only my love for guitars that has kept me in it though. I have sold or traded out most of my guitars and have only a few but nice ones.

 

I wonder about the future of the vinatge guitar market. I saw something very interesting a few weeks ago.

My very good friend since we were kids had a Bar Mitzvah for his son. His son (or "man" now) plays an Epiphone Les Paul, rocks on Hendrix and stuff and is pretty good. During the celebration I watched all the kids on the dance floor (a good ten to twelve boys) all doing "air guitar" during an ACDC Angus Young solo. Some of the girls were doing "air guitar" too! For the first time I considered that there may be a future in vintage guitars or maybe Frank is more perceptive than we would like.

 

Good to hear from you again; Frank!

BW

[Syllander]

Good read, kinda brings to light why I dream of owning an R9. Could care less if it was 60 yrs old, just the specs., the look, the feel, the flame. Too bad They're still as pricey as they are....

[FennRx]

Good read' date=' kinda brings to light why I dream of owning an R9. Could care less if it was 60 yrs old, just the specs., the look, the feel, the flame. Too bad They're still as pricey as they are....[/quote']

 

buy used and they are only a few hundred more than a new standard. thats what i did.

[Syllander]

buy used and they are only a few hundred more than a new standard. thats what i did.

 

What kinda $$$$ are you talking about? I've searched all over the internet/ebay, but the lowest I can find is $4250

[Bender 4 Life]

In reason #3 he raises a point thats more valid than a lot of people realize..........

I've never worked on guitars (for customers) but when I was a gunsmith, I found some VERY old handbooks with old-Vs.-new chemical names, and pre-1900 gunsmithing methods.

 

I read & re-read these books, and started specializing in "Antique & Classic" firearms.

Then the 1st request came........a wealthy businessman had an antique rifle with missing parts, I ordered parts from a used part supply house, and he said offhandedly......."i'd pay almost anything if those parts looked origional".

 

I learned very quickly how to "artificially age" metal and wooden parts, to the exact degree that made them look totally unrecognizeable from origional pieces.

 

Then, the "wealthy businessman" put word out to a few of his "quiet friends" and they started coming in, in droves.....some of my work is in private collections, some hanging on office walls, several pieces are even in Firearms Museums here & there.

The money was great, but it devoured my consience.........and after 3 yrs of this, I quit & closed up my shop.(for reasons besides this as well)

 

My point to this rambling confession? If an uneducated person like me, can stumble on an old book or two, and succsessfully counterfeit gun parts......it can just as easily be done with guitar parts.

 

Think before you buy!

[milod]

This is a great thread - although I've gotta admit I wouldn't know Ed if he came up and bit me, even though I've heard the name...

 

I do agree entirely with the point that if you have the money and want exactly the guitar you want, you're likely best off going to a good "maker" and have one done to your specs.

 

Most of my guitars are mid 1970s and pretty decent quality for what they are. But best of all, they play well. Hmmm.

 

Then again, I'm the type who, if I went on the road, likely would consider it a better buy to go to a guitar store and get a couple of what I like to play rather than the high-end model of something I may or may not like to play because it's pretty... Been there, done that, and it's dumb.

 

Oh, and yeah, I think a nice new 175 would be fine.

 

m

[Bender 4 Life]

Who would have figured' date=' Alabama and Gunsmith................... lol Just picking on ya; your neighbor to the west

[/quote']

 

<L> yeah, who'd have ever figured a lil' ole' Bama boy would have his work permanently showcased in the largest Antique Weapons Museum in the United States...........OR end up in the Millenium edition of Who's Who in American Business??

LIke I said, buyer, beware!

[biggrin]/

[Rocky4]

One reason why posts should be permanantly deleted after six months.

[Murph]

One reason why posts should be permanantly deleted after six months.

 

What?