How to evaluate a guitar BEFORE buying.....

[onewilyfool]

Thought I'd post this as a new thread so we can get some good advice added to my list:

 

Here's a few things I do, when GAS attacks happens and I'm thinking of buying a new guitar:

 

1. Bring along your favorite guitar to compare to all potential purchases. If the potential guitar is not as good as the one you own, why get it.

 

2. Bring along a friend to play the guitar TOWARDS you....so you can hear it's projection. Then you play it towards your friend, and get an unbiased (non-saleman) opinion on the sound of the guitar.

 

3. If the guitar is not a 10 out of 10, don't buy it. (my personal GAS rev limiter)

 

4. Try several models of the guitar you want (at other stores, or from the same store, they often have some in back, although they don't want to bring them out until the previous model sells.) All D-28's are NOT created equal.

 

5. If you find a guitar that you like, play it for at least 1/2 hour. This lets it 'warm up' and you can hear the full potential of the guitar before buying.

 

6. Do not let your mind play these tricks on you with 'futuring' about what the guitar WILL sound like.....

a. This guitar will sound MUCH better with new strings, or Phosphor Bronze strings, or anything like, new nut, new bone saddle. The guitar should sound GOOD period. If not, hoping for improvement is NOT a good reason to get a guitar.

b. When this guitar ages 15 years, it will really sound GOOD!!! While guitars do tend to improve over time (marginally) hoping a guitar will be good in the future is just the mind playing tricks on you. IF a guitar sounds like crap now, it will sound like aged crap in 15 years.

 

7. If you can, bring an electronic tuner so you can easily tune up the guitar (and see if it STAYS in tune) AND check intonation. A guitar with bad intonation is HARD to fix (you can only do so much with compensated nuts and saddles) I have personally seen a new $2.5K guitar at GC with an incorrect scale length!!! I pointed this out to the sales man, and it was still on the wall when I went back 3 weeks later!!!) .

 

8. Do a quick check on setup. Hold down the E string on the first fret and the 14th fret. About halfway between those two points the space between the bottom of the string and the top of the 7th fret should be enough for a playing card to slip in. If it is greater, you will probably need a setup (adding cost to the guitar) and if it is less or touching, you will probably get some buzzing on some of the frets. Maximum action should be 3/32" from bottom of E strings to top of 12th fret. You should have at LEAST 1/8" of saddle showing above the bridge. High action and low saddle almost always mean neck reset. I have seen name brand new guitars at Guitar Center, that need neck resets already, so it is not that uncommon.

 

9. Play each string, from fret 1 to the sounhole and see if there is any buzzing on any of the frets. Buzzing can mean as little as a tweak of the truss rod, to major planing of frets to make the guitar sound good. So this adds to your purchase price.

 

10.Site down the neck. If the neck is bowed up or down, usually this can be adjusted with the neck rod. HOWEVER, if it is over 1 /16" beware. Make sure the store tech adjusts the neck AND that there is more room for adjustment. Beware of this situation. IF the saddle is high on one side and narrow on the other, this is often done to fudge for a twisted neck. Siting down the neck you can see this but if the action is correct and the saddle is lopsided, this could be a problem. I have seen this on one and two year old guitars. A twisted neck is VERY hard to fix. You might get someone to try to STEAM the neck straight (minimal success) or plane the fretboard to compensate (not ideal) or remove the fretboard and try to straighten the neck by regluing, or finally, a new neck. All very expensive alternatives. Best to pass on this type of guitar.

 

I hope this helps. Please add to this list with your own words of advice and words of wisdom.....

[rar]

Thought I'd post this as a new thread so we can get some good advice added to my list

 

C'mon' date=' fess up! You're really reposting old stuff so that you can hit 2,000 posts sooner, aren't you?

 

All kidding aside, this looks like a fine list. I can't think of a thing to add.

 

-- Bob R

[larryp58]

Good job, Wiley! (are you really shooting for 2000?!!!)

[Guth]

Nicely done OWF!

 

I might add that if you are buying remotely, make sure that the seller offers a decent trial period/return policy.

 

Then apply as many of the steps mentioned in the original post as you can bear.

 

I think most guitars are returned to the "player's universe" because so many people ignore a good number of the steps you've mentioned. It's so easy to play mind games with ourselves when we're lusting after a new guitar, only to be honest with ourselves later on. Funny how GAS can turn a guitar that's easily <10 into a solid 10.

 

I'd also recommend that if you have the luxury of a good guitar store to buy from, try not to limit yourself to one particular model, wood combo, etc . — play as many guitars as you can get your hands on (at least those that are somewhat interesting to you), you might be surprised which guitar turns out to be your favorite.

 

All the best,

Guth

[The G]

Well done. Good information.

[onewilyfool]

Well....I just noticed I was approacing 2000 posts.....lol....but that was not the reason I did this. I had posted this on another forum, and thought I would share it with friends here. That is a great rule to add, Guth!!! And by the way, I have broken these rules myself, but under this condition, that I knew when I got the repair work done, the cost of guitar and cost of repair would still be a good deal. I've even used this as a negotiating tool, when dealing with a seller. I often take a 24" steel rule with me, and if the rule set on the fretboard shows a neck reset, I tell the seller how much it costs and ask him if he will remove it from the price of the guitar? Fair enough....???? By the way, just browsing Craigslist, I see two ads where the seller says, "Set up for slide", or "Perfect guitar for slide" This is EBAY speak for "Guitar needs neck reset" Another trap to fall into is this.....(and I am a sucker for this myself) if the guitar is REALLY beautiful, you might tend to over look the list above, but do so at your own risk. Unless you are looking for an expensive project, or a wall hanger, go with your emotions.....lol

Of course, none of this post applies to KSdaddy, who can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear......

[zombywoof]

I thump the side with my thumb and listen for a certain sound. Can't describe the sound but I know it when I hear it. My be a fig newton of my imagination but that sound does tell me something about the giuitar's resonance.

 

Also, always bring someone with you to play the guitar giving you a chance to hear what it sounds like from the front.

 

Funny thing though, I have never bought a guitar I actually went looking for. They always tend to find me. I also got to take both the Gibsons I own home and give the tires a good kick before I pulled the trigger. If I recall, I took the J-200 home twice before deciding to buy it and I think the SJ was the third mid-1950s guitar (four if you count one 1959 J-45 I also "auditioned) I had taken for a test drive. Showed the wisdom of not jumping on the first one I got to hold in my hands.

[mooseguy]

Hi ONE Wily Person

 

 

Thanks a million for your really helpful and appreciated advice. This is what makes this forum so

 

superior to the others.

 

 

Regards,

 

Moose

[Guth]

Another trap to fall into is this.....(and I am a sucker for this myself) if the guitar is REALLY beautiful' date=' you might tend to over look the list above, but do so at your own risk.[/quote']

 

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding...

 

"And the number one answer for having grown unhappy with your guitar is:"

 

LOL

 

Guth

[Murph]

I really like #6.

 

Not that I have any experiance with it......

[MimingMinds]

Alright so I just bought my gibson a few weeks back. My picking technique is probably a little sloppier then it should be, but hey, i really enjoy pounding the strings. Anyways, there are some scuff marks on the finish of my guitar. will a good polish be able to get rid of these? I wipe down my guitar with a glasses cleaner cloth after i play everytime and keep it humidified as well; however, there are still some finger smudges on it after playing. Also there's a faint line around the pickguard. I've heard they shrink over time. Should it be happening this fast?

[Jinder]

Inherent great tone, excellent intonation and a good break angle with plenty of saddle showing are my three benchmarks. Any other probs, cosmetic or otherwise, can be remedied, but those are the three biggies for me.

 

Intonation wise, my ritual is thus: tune to 440 with a top notch tuner, then play a G chord followed by an E chord, both at the first position. If either sounds out of whack, the bat goes back on the rack. Having passed this test, I'll then play a succession of barre and power chords up and down the neck, listening for tuning issues, dissonance, inharmonicity and wolf notes.

 

If said plank passes these asks, it's a contender...if the tone is there, I like the neck and the readies are at the ready, then why not? Life's too short to go around not buying guitars!

[onewilyfool]

I'm with Jinder here.....E chords and G chords are great testing chords. I don't know how many guitars I've played where the E chord sounds great, and the G chord is just dead. Wolf tones I think it is called, and for some reason affects the G chord mostly. A dead G chord, is virtually impossible to fix, it is just something about the architecture of the guitar....I've heard of guys trying to "voice" their guitars, scalloping the braces and such.....but to no avail.....a dead G will remain so......this is a VERY good hint to put on the above list....

[Rambler]

Park pre-conceptions at the door. Not easily done, especially if you have it in mind to try a particular model, but fixed ideas can override what your ears might be telling you. Rituals like Jinders tuning test are a good way of clearing the air/ears. But try to be aware of bias, maybe try something else just to clear the ear, anything to force you to really listen.

[Hoss]

I like to bring one of my guitars with me when I'm going to guitar stores. Every room sounds different, and I like to use one of my own guitars to orient myself to the sound of that room. More than once, my guitar has killed any GAS that occurs and saves me money.

 

There are about three items on your list that I could care less about-- all the items dealing with setup. Getting a guitar set up for your playing is part of the deal and expense of owning a fine instrument. If you're looking at vintage instruments, you almost expect to be dealing with neck sets, refrets and any number of repair and setup issues.

[tpbiii]

Well, we are into vintage guitars, and I would point out a few issues with your approach when buying higher $$ instruments.

 

First, you seem to be really focusing on setup -- neck pitch, saddle height, fretboard geometry, fret condition, etc. It may well be important to know what is required to set up the guitar for cost purposes, but these are all basically just maintenance issues, and on a high end guitar, are just part of the cost of owning one.

 

Comparing guitars is indeed good, but you must also consider the environment in which you test the guitar. The room acoustics is always an issue. Another issue depends on how you personally use the guitar itself. If you are a solo instrumental player, then you have the easiest task -- what you hear is pretty much what you get. If you play with others in acoustic bands or to accompany singing, your task is more complex. In that case, the issues are functional rather than subjective, and you must contrive to test the instrument in a truly appropriate context. (This is all because of the convolved way the human ear works --- what can be heard and not heard in complex acoustic sound fields.) The best bluegrass guitars we own are prewar herringbones and our prewar AJ, but these are not generally judged to have the "best" tone when played solo.

 

Of course, the cost of the instrument does matter -- when the cost is five figures, setup (and even a neck set) is a detail. This is not so for inexpensive instruments.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Best,

 

-Tom

[onewilyfool]

There are about three items on your list that I could care less about-- all the items dealing with setup. Getting a guitar set up for your playing is part of the deal and expense of owning a fine instrument. If you're looking at vintage instruments' date=' you almost expect to be dealing with neck sets, refrets and any number of repair and setup issues.

 

[/quote']

 

Hoss, I agree, I could care less about them also, IF the needed repairs are reflected in the price. For most of the sellers on our local Craigslist, they look into the blue book of guitar values, and list their guitars with the price noted under "excellent", even if it needs a neck reset, has a bowed neck, needs a new nut, needs a new bridge and saddle, and needs 20 cracks repaired. Generally before I go to see a guitar I try to qualify a lot of this information over the phone. I'm not going to pay $2K for a vintage Gibson that needs $1K of repairs, if I can find one from a reputable dealer in Vintage guitar magazine, who has one at the same price that needs no work. The list above just helps me identify what needs to be done. By the way, a friend of mine was looking at a vintage guitar and said, "Oh, I can just loosen the adjusting rod and lower the action...." That adjusting rod, is JUST for creating the proper spacing under the strings at the seventh fret, when held at the first and 14th fret. Only to control buzzing NOT to lower action. Setups are not what I'm talking about, but structural problems which can really add up if you buy a guitar for looks, or on emotions, or without checking these basic things......

[Soundwarrior]

I could relate a lot to 4 and 6. Please make sure the bridge pins are actually the real bridge pins. I do not know how many times this has happened to me where I find a Martin bridge pin in a Gibson guitar. Make sure all strings are on the guitar. I never like to judge a guitar missing the A string. I also like to look at the back of the guitar to see if any of the grains on the wood make any scary faces. If they do I put the guitar down immediatley ( that one just came to me). Anyways I hope everyone hear has a sense of humor. Good information by the way Wily.