Gibson Shmibson...

[Nic]

 

The "Les Paul" model of guitar was designed by Gibson based on some of the designs of a guitarist named (coincidently) Les Paul. They took these basic designs to him and hired him as a consultant to help work on the final product; according to Wikipedia' date=' for a time he recorded using Epiphone Les Pauls even though he had to be seen in public with Gibsons due to an endorsement contract.[/quote']

 

This story isn't quite right. Les Paul was the first person with the idea of a solid body guitar. He built a rough version of the guitar in the Epiphone shop by courtesy of the owner of Epiphone, which was not Gibson. The original was called the "log". He took the log prototype to Gibson and they were not interested, they were committed to arch top electric guitars and thought a solid body guitar was not desired. Several years later Leo Fender came out with the Stratocaster. Gibson then realized they should produce a solid body guitar and approached Les Paul. Les is an inventor as well as a guitarist and he had a lot to do with the development of the LP, and I'm pretty sure it is his design.

 

I don't think there was an Epiphone version of the Les Paul when Les was actively recording. And I'm pretty sure he used the Gibson LP exclusively since it was first produced. And he still does, he's over 90 years old and plays once a week at a club somewhere on the east coast.

[Guest]

 

This story isn't quite right. Les Paul was the first person with the idea of a solid body guitar. He built a rough version of the guitar in the Epiphone shop by courtesy of the owner of Epiphone' date=' which was not Gibson. The original was called the "log". He took the log prototype to Gibson and they were not interested, they were committed to arch top electric guitars and thought a solid body guitar was not desired. Several years later Leo Fender came out with the Stratocaster. Gibson then realized they should produce a solid body guitar and approached Les Paul. Les is an inventor as well as a guitarist and he had a lot to do with the development of the LP, and I'm pretty sure it is his design.

 

I don't think there was an Epiphone version of the Les Paul when Les was actively recording. And I'm pretty sure he used the Gibson LP exclusively since it was first produced. And he still does, he's over 90 years old and plays once a week at a club somewhere on the east coast.[/quote']

 

No, your story isn't quite right...in fact it isn't even a little bit right. Rickerbacker was marketing a solid body electric guitar ("The Frying Pan" designed by Paul Barth, George Beauchamp and Adolph Rickenbacker) before Les Paul was even making regular money in the music business (1931)...and that was followed by Paul Bigsby and then Leo Fender and his Telecaster.. and then about six years later Gibson and Ted McCarty designed.a solid body electric guitar for Gibson that they rented Les Paul's name to use to try to sell it...the only thing Les Paul designed that was even slightly successful was the modern endorsement contract or how to milk a long-gone career for every cent....you need to do a lot more reading...

[matiac]

Well, if I may "chime in", I went out and bought a Gibson Les Paul Classic, paid almost 2000.00 dollars for it (extended warranty jacked up the price slightly), brought it home, played it, and it wasn't anything near what I expected it to be. High, rounded frets that I wasn't used to, sticky after playing it, thing was lighter than my SG I had...ok, it was SLIGHTLY heavier, it just didn't speak to me like my other inferior guitar (Epiphone Les Paul) did/does. And materials and location aside, that 500.00 dollar guitar TO ME has way more mojo than the Gibson did. Not taking anything away from the Goldtop, it was a fine guitar, pickups were a little too hot (subjective), I couldn't get used to the factory setup. It was one of those "plekked" guitars their doing now, and while I made some pretty kool sounds with it, it just didn't "ring my bell". I dunno, maybe I just root for the underdog here, but I think at the pricepoint for the Epiphone, it TO ME is a better guitar, again, materials and location aside. I said it before, and I guess I'll say it again, you get what you like, and can afford, and I guess some would say "you get what you pay for", and that's true, you do. BUT, I like my trusty poly coated Epiphone better. I've played both, and I'm just not sold on the Gibson. Maybe to have one to hang on the wall for display? Now SG's are a whole other story, I miss my SG, I want another one.

[JRizZ]

Well' date=' if I may "chime in", I went out and bought a Gibson Les Paul Classic, paid almost 2000.00 dollars for it (extended warranty jacked up the price slightly), brought it home, played it, and it wasn't anything near what I expected it to be. High, rounded frets that I wasn't used to, sticky after playing it, thing was lighter than my SG I had...ok, it was SLIGHTLY heavier, it just didn't speak to me like my other inferior guitar (Epiphone Les Paul) did/does. And materials and location aside, that 500.00 dollar guitar TO ME has way more mojo than the Gibson did. Not taking anything away from the Goldtop, it was a fine guitar, pickups were a little too hot (subjective), I couldn't get used to the factory setup. It was one of those "plekked" guitars their doing now, and while I made some pretty kool sounds with it, it just didn't "ring my bell". I dunno, maybe I just root for the underdog here, but I think at the pricepoint for the Epiphone, it TO ME is a better guitar, again, materials and location aside. I said it before, and I guess I'll say it again, you get what you like, and can afford, and I guess some would say "you get what you pay for", and that's true, you do. BUT, I like my trusty poly coated Epiphone better. I've played both, and I'm just not sold on the Gibson. Maybe to have one to hang on the wall for display? Now SG's are a whole other story, I miss my SG, I want another one.[/quote']

 

I love my Gibson SG too - even if it is a Faded that some people dislike, it is bloody great!

 

I have no idea why Gibson put those ceramic 496R 500T pickups in Les Paul Classics. They are too hot, and surely Les Pauls should be all about tone, something that there is decidedly less of with ceramic pickups. Those pickups are sweet in a Flying V (like my Epi V for instance!) or an Explorer where they are going to be doing some more rocking, and clean tone is less of an issue, but not in a Les Paul IMO.

 

I don't think Gibsons are totally overrated, but they are over priced! I can't afford a Gibson Les Paul, so I'm currently making my own this summer. It's going to be verrry hard, but when it's done I'll have a guitar that should be as good as a Gibson, for a third of the price - and it'll mean more to me as I've made it myself! (It will have Gibson pickups in it though!!!!!)

[Ricochet]

I can't afford a Gibson Les Paul' date=' so I'm currently making my own this summer. It's going to be verrry hard, but when it's done I'll have a guitar that should be as good as a Gibson, for a third of the price - and it'll mean more to me as I've made it myself! (It will have Gobson pickups in it though!!!!!)[/quote']

 

I'm hoping to finish a LP-project myself this summer, and I've been eyeing Swineshead pickups. They're custom made, cost a third of a Gibson PU and they're a British company... Reviews I read are few, but good.

[shartom]

I have to say, I am a little disappointed with my month old Gibby LP Studio. I thought I had the tuning issue resolved. We played a long gig last night. After a few bars of our first song, the B strring was so flat that I had to stop playing, hit my boss tuner on the floor and quickly get the string back in tune. When the song ended, I stetched the string, retuned and it was ok. The second set, I used my Epi Joe Pass. Plays like a dream and STAYS IN TUNE...at about 3/4 the price of the Gibby, Needless to say, four and a half hours later, I finished the gig with my JP not my LP.

[JRizZ]

 

I'm hoping to finish a LP-project myself this summer' date=' and I've been eyeing Swineshead pickups. They're custom made, cost a third of a Gibson PU [i']and[/i] they're a British company... Reviews I read are few, but good.

 

They sound interesting... I am also considering "Bareknuckle" pickups - also a british company, and they custom make pickups for order. They aren't cheap, but they are reportedly very good!

[joeymetro]

Just curios how many Epiphone guitars have been produced and how many Gibson this year?

Being that Epiphone is owned by Gibson, how much net profit did each line make Gibson?

Isn`t an Epi really a Gibson being they are the parent company?

Fender - Squire?

I am very happy with my guitar which is an Epiphone.

[Nic]

 

No' date=' your story isn't quite right...in fact it isn't even a little bit right. Rickerbacker was marketing a solid body electric guitar ("The Frying Pan" designed by Paul Barth, George Beauchamp and Adolph Rickenbacker) before Les Paul was even making regular money in the music business (1931)...and that was followed by Paul Bigsby and then Leo Fender and his Telecaster.. and then about six years later Gibson and Ted McCarty designed.a solid body electric guitar for Gibson that they rented Les Paul's name to use to try to sell it...the only thing Les Paul designed that was even slightly successful was the modern endorsement contract or how to milk a long-gone career for every cent....you need to do a lot more reading...[/quote']

 

The Frying Pan was an obscure eccentric aluminum construction "guitar" that had no impact on the future of guitars as we know them today. (I thought the Frying Pan was a laptop guitar, not sure though) In the 30's, Les Paul was experimenting with how electricity would be used to amplify the vibrations created by guitar strings. He had the notion that a pick-up should amplify the strings vibration instead of amplifying the sound created by air inside an acoustic guitar. This is the fundamental difference between a solid body guitar and an acoustic electric archtop. The goal was to reduce feedback and increase sustain, (Hmmm a couple notable characteristics of the LP). Paul then created an abomination called the Log which he built in the Epiphone shop to put his ideas into a real form. Several years later, after Fender developed the Broadcaster, (you're right, the strat came later, and the Telecaster was called a Broadcaster for about a year), Gibson became interested in the solid body idea that had been presented to them by Les Paul a few years earlier. There are many different versions of the story as to who was the primary designer of the Les Paul. My contention is that Les Paul was the one of the key players as was McCarty.

 

Now, regarding the last portion of your statement...Have you ever heard of Multi-track recording??? There isn't a single person in the recording industry that doesn't acknowledge Les Paul's invention that revolutionized the recording industry. As for him milking a career, if people want to see him play, all the power to him. I wouldn't pay a $5 cover charge to see him. Though I have bought some of his older albums, but that was because of Mary Ford, not Paul.

 

Go Red Wings!

[sdgails]

I have to say' date=' I am a little disappointed with my month old Gibby LP Studio. I thought I had the tuning issue resolved. We played a long gig last night. After a few bars of our first song, the B strring was so flat that I had to stop playing, hit my boss tuner on the floor and quickly get the string back in tune. When the song ended, I stetched the string, retuned and it was ok. The second set, I used my Epi Joe Pass. Plays like a dream and STAYS IN TUNE...at about 3/4 the price of the Gibby, Needless to say, four and a half hours later, I finished the gig with my JP not my LP.

[/quote']

 

 

The gibson deluxe tuners really are a gamble, some hold up and some........are horrendous. That's probably the bug.Put in some grovers, or grover deluxes....

[ssgfowler]

Just to chime in.

I've always wanted a real Gibson SG...I ended up with the SG Special Faded version because it played better than all the others I tried out at GC. One P/U change and some cosmetic mods and a ton of setup work and its now my favorite.

When my 14 yr old wanted to learn and wanted a better guitar to learn on than the Epi LP Special II he had I got him an SG 310. (It was a Christmas present, I wish the G-400 model had price dropped at the time).

The Epi SG required a lot less setup to get it to play like the real Gibson and I really like playing it when he brings it over.

I know the Gibson SG will never be worth a ton of bucks, nor will the Epi, but I didn't buy them for an investment. They both play and sound great.

[Just Strum]

I know the Gibson SG will never be worth a ton of bucks' date=' nor will the Epi, but I didn't buy them for an investment. They both play and sound great.[/quote']

 

That's all that matters - doesn't really matter what name is on it. Personally I don't get hung up on scratches in some areas, it's meant to sound good and bring you enjoyment.

[Guest]

 

The Frying Pan was an obscure eccentric aluminum construction "guitar" that had no impact on the future of guitars as we know them today. (I thought the Frying Pan was a laptop guitar' date=' not sure though)[/i']

 

Again, you need to do a lot more research and reading as you clearly have no idea of which you speak. The Frying Pan was the prototype for a line of Rickenbacker guitars called The "Electro" kine and they were available in both Hawaiian and Spanish tunings...go do a search on Perry Botkin Sr. Obscure? The Electro" line was made from 1931 well into the the 1940's

 

Within most informed circles the "Frying Pan"is indisputably the first commercially available electric solid body guitar. Lloyd Loar also experimented electric amplification on the world's first solid body bass guitar when Les Paul was about six years old...you obviously have no background on this subject save for perhaps reading a Les Paul interview.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In the 30's, Les Paul was experimenting with how electricity would be used to amplify the vibrations created by guitar strings. He had the notion that a pick-up should amplify the strings vibration instead of amplifying the sound created by air inside an acoustic guitar.

 

 

Lloyd Loar was doing that in 1922 and by 1931 George Beachamp, Paul Barth and Adolph Rickenbacker were selling an instrument that did that and continued to sell that same instrument well into the 1940's

 

This is the fundamental difference between a solid body guitar and an acoustic electric arch top. The goal was to reduce feedback and increase sustain, (Hmmm a couple notable characteristics of the LP). Paul then created an abomination called the Log which he built in the Epiphone shop to put his ideas into a real form.

 

 

Lester Polfuss was a tinkerer who had access on Sundays to the Epiphone New York factory and did create "The Log" an impractical, unmarketable chunk of wood and wires. He also had access to the scrap pile which is why the Log has an Epiphone body to make it look more like a guitar

 

 

Several years later, after Fender developed the Broadcaster, (you're right, the strat came later, and the Telecaster was called a Broadcaster for about a year),

 

 

 

The first Telecaster was conceived in about 1946 about a year or so after Paul (PA) Bigsby started selling his custom-made electric solid bodies which resembled both the Fender and Gibson products to come. Fender started mass-maketing its Broadcaster in 1950 and Gibson the Les Paul Model in 1952

 

Gibson became interested in the solid body idea that had been presented to them by Les Paul a few years earlier. There are many different versions of the story as to who was the primary designer of the Les Paul. My contention is that Les Paul was the one of the key players as was McCarty.

 

 

The only person who has a different version of what happened is Les Paul. It's pretty clear that McCarty et al did the designing and Lester took the credit...or tried to...Lester did offer a failed tail piece/bridge combination that had to be replaced withing the first year or so of production.

 

Now, regarding the last portion of your statement...Have you ever heard of Multi-track recording???

 

Have you ever heard of Bell Labs, Western Electric , EMI, Telefunken, or Grundig? All were experimenting with multichannel recording as early as the 1930s...the first multi track recorder Les Paul ever saw was one Bing Crosby bought from the Nazis (Telefunken) after World War Two (1946) and that Les tinkered on...Please don't say you think Lester Polfuss invented multi track recording because then you'll sound like every other clueless yokel who read a Les Paul interview and believed what that old con man said.

 

 

There isn't a single person in the recording industry that doesn't acknowledge Les Paul's invention that revolutionized the recording industry.

 

No, what anyone who has ever read beyond Lester's personal hype acknowledges is that Lester likes to stretch the truth...Ted McCarty told me and I'll quote..."Lester just remembers things differently from everyone else" Name one invention of Les Paul's...it wasn't solid bodied electric guitars...not multi track recording, not the humbucker pick up, not even low impedance pickups so what exactly did Les Paul "invent" ? I can tell you..it was the has-been pop star as guitar factory endorser dynamic which I admit Eddie Van Halen took to the next level and beyond

 

As for him milking a career, if people want to see him play, all the power to him. I wouldn't pay a $5 cover charge to see him. Though I have bought some of his older albums, but that was because of Mary Ford, not Paul.

 

Once upon a time I'd watch Les and his smirk and thought...yeah, he seems like a total pain in the *** but with all that he's offered music I can look past that...then with a bit of research I discovered he didn't actually ever do or invent anything so he had no reason for the smirk and I had no reason for going on believing that he was anything but an opportunistic pop star whose star faded long ago and that he had taken advantage of the passers by of this industry by selling his tales of personal greatness when so many other true geniuses went unacknowledged...people like George Beachamp...Paul Barth...Lloyd Loar, perhaps the greatest musical instrument genius of all time....Paul (PA) Bigsby...Leo Fender...Doc Kauffman...Don Randall...my personal guitar hero, Ted McCarty...Les Paul is all smoke and mirrors and BS. Go do some actual research and reading and you'll find and Lester pales compared to the real innovators and inventors. he's had the backing all these years of the Gibson marketing and public relations machine which has given him high visibility and exposure but the man himself hasn't ever really invented anything of note. He did take existing technology and develop and popularize it but he didn't do anything to invent it.

 

Go Red Wings!

 

Indeed.

[Red 333]

gibson losing market share.

 

with all the new guitar makers over the past 10 years making MUCH higher quality guitars gibson is now facing a 50% loss in market share overall according to the wall street journal. theyre response ? higher prices.

 

 

Could you link to the WSJ article that says anything about Gibson's declining market share? I am incredulous that ANY company could survive a 50% decline in their business today. Look at what single digit sales losses do to the auto industry. Besides, as a private company, Gibson does not report their sales, and nor do they have an obligation to do, so how would the WSJ know what they were?

 

I think what you may be referring to is the state that Gibson was in BEFORE Henry J and associates bought Gibson some...15 or 20 years ago. In that time, it is easy to see how they have GROWN Gibson. Look at how many HUNDREDS of models they sell today--that's not what happens when a company is in decline; the company REDUCES the number of models they sell, to create manufacturing and marketing efficiency. Gibson just BOUGHT yet another company recently and added it to it's portfolio of brands (Epiphone, Baldwin, Valley Arts, Maestro, Steinburger, etc.)

[Guest]

Please delete...multiple posts and other weirdness has been happening.

[Funkwire]

Gibson then realized they should produce a solid body guitar and approached Les Paul. Les is an inventor as well as a guitarist and he had a lot to do with the development of the LP' date=' and I'm pretty sure it is his design.

[/quote']

 

The Les Paul guitar was completely designed and finished when Ted McCarty presented it to Les and proposed the endorsement deal. The ONLY thing Les ever contributed to the guitar (other than his name) was the trapeze bar tailpiece, which was a flop and soon replaced by the stop bar. The fault lies partly with Gibson's designers, who didn't configure the proper neck angle for the tailpiece.

 

I'm not out to bash Les, I think he's well deserving of his legend. But it's a well-established fact that he had nothing to do with the design of the Les Paul. I think Les would tell you himself he is a tinkerer/inventor, not a designer.

 

And I'm pretty sure he used the Gibson LP exclusively since it was first produced. And he still does' date=' he's over 90 years old and plays once a week at a club somewhere on the east coast.[/quote']

 

The club is called Iridium and it is in an obscure, small town called "New York City".

[The_Sentry]

I'm really happy with my Gibson....but at the same time, this isn't the first time I've heard about this, or this reflection that comes back on the whole "hit or miss" aspect with the Gibsons in terms of quality.

 

Fortunately for me, my guitar plays great, and was great right off the floor. But at the same time, I've seen other models that were just like mine, and were just...awful. Now, part of this might have to do with the fact that a lot of stores don't set up their guitars before putting them on the floor...

 

*cough cough*

 

And some of it might have to do with the phenomenom of online purchasing. Combine this in conjunction with rapidly rising manufacturer overhead (moreso than normal because of the commodities and energy markets), the resistance to offshoring....and the cheaper models which have to have overhead costs cut somewhere...

 

Sure, there's probably going to be some lemons out there.

 

My Epi LP Custom was a lemon when it came in the mail. I spent a lot of time working on that guitar. The Epi LP standard was a great guitar...used.

 

But as far as that sort of price goes? A name is a name. And yes, there's a sound associated with that name (Epi's don't quite have that sound...but one all their own) there are other manufacturers, and other models out there that can produce results, or get you what you're looking for.

 

I don't see why any guitar manufacturer should get a "free pass", just because of the name on the headstock. Gibson's certainly no exception. If you can test that guitar before buying it...that's still the best way to go about this sort of stuff.

 

But nah, unless you're willing to spend even more money on something that might be personally constructed for you, you're going to find lemons that are associated with any line. And sure, you're going to pay to get that Gibson name.....which makes the argument all the more valid to play one before buying it. (Especially for that kind of dough...)

[cookieman15061]

You can't win. There's always someone...

 

Korean Epis are better than Chinese Epis... elitists are better than regular Epis... Gibsons are better than all Epis... Custom Shop Gibsons are better than regular Gibsons... Vintage Gibsons are better than Custom Shop Gibsons... '50s Gibsons are better than all other Vintage Gibsons... 59 is better than 58... April is better than May... if yours was made on a Tuesday it sucks.

 

It never ends. There will invariably be someone who says that yours (no matter what it is) is crap' date=' and his (more expensive one) is [i']obviously[/i] better.

 

lol thats so true. Could not have said it better myself. I have 2 epi casinos and a les paul studio vm. The casinos look beautiful and after some minor adjustments sound great yet I still get the " oooo made in china" look. Its the same with my lp. "oh its just a studio or its just a vintage mahogany". even though it sounds awesome. Frankly I don't care what its called or how much it doesn't cost. Making music is such a gift. Why does it have to become a status symbol.

[cookieman15061]

[charlie brown]

"It's All ****!" (John Lennon)

 

CB

[The_Sentry]

You can't win. There's always someone...

 

Korean Epis are better than Chinese Epis... elitists are better than regular Epis... Gibsons are better than all Epis... Custom Shop Gibsons are better than regular Gibsons... Vintage Gibsons are better than Custom Shop Gibsons... '50s Gibsons are better than all other Vintage Gibsons... 59 is better than 58... April is better than May... if yours was made on a Tuesday it sucks.

 

It never ends. There will invariably be someone who says that yours (no matter what it is) is crap' date=' and his (more expensive one) is [i']obviously[/i] better.

 

lol thats so true. Could not have said it better myself. I have 2 epi casinos and a les paul studio vm. The casinos look beautiful and after some minor adjustments sound great yet I still get the " oooo made in china" look. Its the same with my lp. "oh its just a studio or its just a vintage mahogany". even though it sounds awesome. Frankly I don't care what its called or how much it doesn't cost. Making music is such a gift. Why does it have to become a status symbol.

 

 

Good question. If we were talking about motorcycles though.....and you were trying to convince someone that a Honda was just as good as a Harley Davidson (even though Harley's had a few off years) what kind of response would you get?

[JRizZ]

 

Good question. If we were talking about motorcycles though.....and you were trying to convince someone that a Honda was just as good as a Harley Davidson (even though Harley's had a few off years) what kind of response would you get?

 

I don't know much about motorcycles - but aren't Hondas and Harley Davidsons fairly different beasts?! And I'd never think that a Harley would be "better" than a Honda - just totally different! I guess the Honda would be faster and more reliable, but the Harley would be more obnoxiously loud... but as I said - I don't know a lot about motorcyles!

[The_Sentry]

 

I don't know much about motorcycles - but aren't Hondas and Harley Davidsons fairly different beasts?! And I'd never think that a Harley would be "better" than a Honda - just totally different! I guess the Honda would be faster and more reliable' date=' but the Harley would be more obnoxiously loud... but as I said - I don't know a lot about motorcyles![/quote']

 

Honda has a few models which are targeted to the Harley crowd....(they make quite a few different motorcycles in terms of models)...in truth they probably ride just as well as the Harley's, and are probably just as loud...but yes, it's a status symbol thing....

[noobzilla]

GIBSON FREE and lovin it!

 

Sold all my gibsons. All this talk about Les is beside the point. Most NAMED models of any brand are the

same way, just some endorsement. Sure, some had input, most do not though. Even if so, in this case it was

what, 50 years ago. Whats that mean today? Nada.

 

Gibsons are overpriced, overhyped. A crime, really. Considering so many other brands make just as good

guitars if not better for 1/2 the prices. Go ahead and pay an extra couple grand for the Gibson logo if you

wish. Wasting your money, imo. Gibson sure as hell IS NOT the ferarri of guitars. Just another chevy or

ford whos sales person tells you its 'better' because of the logo on it. BLAH.

 

Their whole attitude sucks. Only allow certain dealers to sell em, to keep the price high. The only thing

that says Gibson in my house right now is the Guitar Hero Les Paul sitting next to my playstation 3, and

even looking at that makes me wanna puke. My Epi LP Custom rocks as much for 1/3 the price and I love

the guitar, but even so, I wont buy any more, as sending my money to Gibson via proxy, epiphone, makes

me sick. In my perfect world, Gibson sells Epiphone, Epi improves its line, gets some big rock stars to promote

them and puts Gibson out of business.

 

Anyhow, GIBSON FREE at last!!