Capacitors

[olman]

I have a question about caps. About 6 months ago, I installed a 57 classic and a 57 classic plus in my Epi LP Classic Plus. I also installed a Mojo harness W/ 22 uf caps. I would like a brighter tone from this setup. What would you folks reccomend to accomplish this via caps?> It`s just darker than I like.

[copper1281734000]

Get a lower cap value.

[olman]

I am also interested in what voltage would work best.

[copper1281734000]

Guitar don't have very high voltages, almost anything should work. I was looking at radio shack and I did a quick check, and the lowest I saw was 50 volts. That should work. Maybe someone on here knows better than me, but I'm pretty sure you don't need a lot.

 

EDIT: I found a cool site that explains this kinda stuff:

 

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2008/Mar/Auditioning_Tone_Capacitors.aspx

 

It said anything over .5 volts would work. Lower the value=brighter, higher value=darker

[bluelake07]

Here is an article you might find interesting:

 

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2008/Mar/Auditioning_Tone_Capacitors.aspx

[TWANG]

If you get something like 600 volt caps they say they wont form correctly. So keep the voltage low..

you can use 200V or under easily.

I think that mostly the forming bit is important to amps, because guitars just don't have any volts running through them,

unless you're on fire or spitting sparks into the microphone and who cares about tone then?

 

they are cheap.. get yourself a couple of sprague orange drops in .015 and .01 and see which you prefer.

 

You can get a bit of brightness out of 300K versus the usual 500K pots.

 

and you can use a treble bleed cap to keep the highs when you back off the volumes.

[RotcanX]

If you get something like 600 volt caps they say they wont form correctly.

 

...I think that only applies to electrolytic capacitors, i.e over 1µF.

 

If I wanted to get more highs out of the set-up I'd look for a way to disconnect the tone controls from the circuit. Either disconnect them permanently (eek! no tone controls!) or else mod the tone pots by cutting the resistive element close to the unconnected terminal so that they disconnect in the '10' position (the so-called 'Texas Tone' control). From my experience, if you've got the tone controls maxed, the 500K resistance of the pots is sufficeintly high that changing the caps isn't going to result in an appreciable difference; you really only see the influence of different cap values at the other end of the scale where the resistance of the pot becomes less of a controlling factor.

[Biff]

Now, wait... I may have had a glass of wine too many but..

 

How does a lower value cap make the sound brighter, if the tone circuit is just a variable low pass filter?

I mean, if the tone pot is at 10 the cap is taken out of the picture, right?

 

Never mind. I don't care, I feel stupid enough already.

[RotcanX]

A smaller cap value allows less high frequencies through (to ground), so that as you dial down the tone the effect is less pronounced. There is a marginal effect with the tone at 10 but it's pretty negligable.

[olman]

Well, now i`m totally confused. I am also ignorant about this stuff. Is it evem possible to brighten the tone on the 57 Classics? I have played with pickup height and amp settings for 6 months to no avail. Does anyone know for sure how to brighten them? All opinions welcome. Thanks.

[TWANG]

Rot.. nope. applies to polys too. take a look at the sozo website sometime..

 

many builders think that the cheap rat shack caps sound as good as any, by the way.

I go sprague despite them. *G*

 

 

olman. tone caps. lower value. more bright.

You can also remove the covers for a little more output and a little more highs.

you can also add treble bleed caps so that you keep your highs as you turn down your guitar volume.

 

and then, you become like me, and give up on humbuckers and get yourself some noisy old p90s.

*s*

or.. then again, I have a humbuck in the lp studio bridge that I'm happy with, too.

[olman]

Okay, so I try a lower cap value. Can anyone reccomend a good quality cap? Cost is not much of an object. Don`t want 100.00 caps though. I guess I`ll try that first. I dont really want to take the covers off. And I don`t want to lose the creamyness of the 57`s just brighten them. I don`t want to change the pots again, they are genuine Gibson, and work really well. Thanks Guys and Gals

[Biff]

The brand doesn't matter, the electrons don't know the difference.

Orange Drops are cheap, cool looking and quite true to their specifications, those are IMO the only things that matter :)

[TWANG]

yep. orange drops. not expensive, good spec and quality.

but most poly caps are very good caps. again, a lot of guys just go to rat shack and get those big greenies.

and there are none I know of that cost much at all. try .015 and .01 .. you can hear a slight shift in the frequency affected and

for cheap, why not be a perfectionist?

[jcwillow777]

The thing I like about Orange Drops is that they have a + or - 5% tolerance. That means that they are really pretty close to value. Others like Radio Shack will have + or - 10% tolerance. I've used others as well, not really sure I can hear any difference, but I prefer the sSrague Orange Drops.

 

I don't have a electronics store around me that sells Orange Drops, so I have to order them online, which can get a little expensive, especially if you are only ordering a couple of caps. In those circumstances it's cheaper to just go to Radio Shack.

 

My Gibson Les Paul has the original cheap ceramic cap in it and it still works fine.

[layboomo]

In a standard passive tone control you can only cut frequencies.....

 

" It’s a common misconception that passive EQ controls are able to boost certain frequencies, but they are only capable of attenuating signal in their respective frequency bands...."

 

For the brightest sound from a given pickup you would want to take the tone control out of the circuit....there are several famous players who have done just that on their guitars. Changing caps values really only effects the other end of the spectrum...ie how much hi end is attenuated.

[Bakz]

You've described my experience with the 57 Classic in a Les Paul. Perfect pickup for an SG, but rather boomy dark in a Lester. I installed a .015 uf copper foil yellow jacket in the neck, and a .020 uf in the bridge. The wiring remained stock with neck volume as the master control. The outcome was rather normalized, for my style. I generally don't do bright anyway.

 

Voltage ratings don't matter in a passive crossover circuit. You'll find them anywhere from 100V-700V for good foil crossover capacitors.

[olman]

O.K. Thanks a lot folks. I`ll grab some and go to work. Next to my strats it`s a very dark guitar. My Emperor 2 is some what brighter. If the caps don`t do it for me, I`ll be looking for some brighter humbucks. Don`t want noisey P 90s.

[TWANG]

me like noisy p90s.

me say you shut up!

 

 

 

 

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sorry.. my guitarzan popped out of me.

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[Biff]

Sorry TWANG what? Can't hear you over the P90 hum.

[TWANG]

*L*

 

nah.. that's my amp!

[Ricochet]

I never use the tone control on a guitar(being an oldschool EVH fan), but seems to me I'm holding out on a lot of tonal fun... I'm thinking of replacing the tone with a tbx in my LP. Or try out high-grade caps like Hovlands? Anyone try that?

[Dave]

The tone control supplies a path to ground through the tone cap when you back off completely on the tone control. There will be a little coloration when the tone control is turned completely up because you still have a 250k or 500k path through the cap and the tone control. It doesn't go to infinity, just very high resistance to ground. Given that the value of the pot is so high at that range, you might as well consider the tone control out of the circuit, though. On most guitars, there is no change or little change at the top end of the control. The guitar tone circuit is a cut circuit that conducts highs to ground when turned down (where it conducts the most). The control is wired so that there is virtually no conductance through the cap when the tone pot is turned up.

 

As I read these posts, I wondered why the treble control on the amp doesn't do the trick for everybody. I'm an old guy with ears that have lost their keen high end and I still run the tone controls around the middle of their range on stage using my Vox AD50VT. You won't really change the sound of the guitar using different tone caps, just the range of control and you can do that using the amp, unless your amp has so little treble boost that you have to run it wide open on treble and still don't have enough.