tulsaslim Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 You've got a legitimate beef as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for pointing it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Wow' date=' take a look; EE 2007 versus DW and U 2007 ... [b']EE:[/b] EE: DW: U: Wow, that is a pretty big difference. Glad I got my Korean Classic! I checked mine, and it's the smaller heel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman3001 Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 Biff, so what do those serial numbers mean? Aren't they all being made in China right now with pretty much the same parts? I'm a little confused here. Dave, so you have an EE serial number but the small heel? hrmm...wonder how that happened. I'd love to know how I can get ahold of a silverburst with the small heel as advertised. I understand what Biff said about them photoshopping a lot of the pics they use on the site, but a cosmetic change is quite different than a fairly major change in construction that can have a HUGE impact on playability. Something should be done about it. Oh, and Biff, where on sweetwater's site do they show the pics of the actual guitars they have in stock? I couldn't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman3001 Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 Wow' date=' that is a pretty big difference. Glad I got my Korean Classic! I checked mine, and it's the smaller heel.[/quote'] Yeah man, same here!! I have my old faithful LP Custom from over 15 years ago with the small heel. I used to not be worried about anything happening to it...figured if something did happen to it I could just go pick up another one. Little did I know they messed them all up!!! :) Now I'm petrified that something could happen to it and I won't be able to replace it. It's been my main guitar for over 15 years and has basically become almost like a part of me, strange as that may sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Biff' date=' so what do those serial numbers mean? Aren't they all being made in China right now with pretty much the same parts? I'm a little confused here.[/quote'] No, they are not all made in China (at least yet). EE = Qingdao, China The Gibson Qingdao Plant was opened in October 2002, Qingdao, China. It is the only plant run by Epiphone in Asia.Both acoustic and electric guitars are made here. The factory is dedicated to making Epiphone and only Epiphone guitars with the aim of producing higher quality guitars. U = Unsung, Korea Un Sung Musical Instrument Co., Ltd. was established in 1987, Inchon, Korea. They have productive capability 50,000 of Electric Guitars and basses a year. Not only do they produce guitars for several well known brands by OEM but also have their own line 'Silver Star'. http://www.unsung.co.kr/ DW = DaeWon, China Daewon Musical Instrument Co., ltd. Established in Kyunggi-do, Korea in 1991. Established Daewon China factory in Dalian, Northern China In 2001. http://www.straus.co.kr/about.htm ... and there are more. The next two numbers in the serial tell the year of manufacture. Oh' date=' and Biff, where on sweetwater's site do they show the pics of the actual guitars they have in stock? I couldn't find it. [/quote'] http://www.sweetwater.com/guitargallery/electric/all/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman3001 Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 EE = Qingdao' date=' China The Gibson Qingdao Plant was opened in October 2002, Qingdao, China. It is the only plant run by Epiphone in Asia.Both acoustic and electric guitars are made here. The factory is dedicated to making Epiphone and only Epiphone guitars with the aim of producing higher quality guitars. U = Unsung, Korea Un Sung Musical Instrument Co., Ltd. was established in 1987, Inchon, Korea. They have productive capability 50,000 of Electric Guitars and basses a year. Not only do they produce guitars for several well known brands by OEM but also have their own line 'Silver Star'. http://www.unsung.co.kr/ DW = DaeWon, China Daewon Musical Instrument Co., ltd. Established in Kyunggi-do, Korea in 1991. Established Daewon China factory in Dalian, Northern China In 2001. http://www.straus.co.kr/about.htm ... and there are more. The next two numbers in the serial tell the year of manufacture. http://www.sweetwater.com/guitargallery/electric/all/ [/quote'] So if I can manage to find one made in Korea or Daewon do you think there's a chance it will come with the right neck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Probably. This is quite eye-opening. So far I've been kind of so-so on EE LPs although I've seen some awesome Studios from EE and their G-400s are da bomb. I'd guess that the Silverburst you saw was either an earlier EE or an Unsung. Unsung does a lot of the LE 'Custom Shop' guitars for Epiphone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Well, after reading this thead, I went to check my Gibson Les Pauls ('80 Custom, 1999 Classic, and '76 Deluxe) The Custom and Deluxe had the smaller heel, the Classic has a larger. I've never really noticed a major difference in access, because of the heels. Having said that, it is kind of amazing, there would be that much difference, nowadays, when things are more computerized, and repeatable. Seems like it would be more standardized?! Les Pauls are not the best (or worst) guitars for upper register playing. SG's and Double Cuts, as well as Strats or their clones, seem far better suited to "living in the upper registers!" But, hand size, finger length, can all play a part, with regard to upper fret access. Especially, with Les Pauls, or other single cutaway guitars. "Jazz Boxes" can really be particularly problematic, that way. Anyway, seems the heel specs vary, from time to time, even with Gibson's. If you love to work in the upper frets, you might look into an SG (G-400), or a Double Cutaway Gibson, if you don't already own one? Hope you get it resolved... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matiac Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 If you look at the Ultra, and the Standard above it, the heels are different on those as well. But those first 2? Holy Krikers! unless you do the Joe Satriani thing, and just hit the fretboard with your playing fingers, I could see where you'd trip over that if you weren't used to it being there. The Ultra's got the smallest of the 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Well I just sold an Agile Al-2800 blue quilt top. I absolutely loved the guitar and its finish and set up were Waaaaay i mean waay better than this $700 epi I just got. It really makes me sad because this is the most valuable guitar Ive ever had and it doesnt compare (fit and finish) wise to my $280 agile. The reason I sold it may not be an issue for SOME' date=' but those mahogony agiles weigh a ton well more like 14.5 pounds. this is no exageration i wieghed it on more than 1 scale even though it wasnt hard to believe. the body of this guitar is just over 2" thick at the edge so even thicker at the arch, the maple cap is a 1/2" thick too. maple and mahogony are some of the heaviest woods. If you stand up with this guitar you will soon have a sore shoulder and a sore back, not kidding, Im 6'1" and 175lbs, and phisically fit, so gauge it on that. I sure miss the neck on that thing though!!!! [/quote'] 14.5 lbs! Yipes! I have a 3100 that's 10 lbs even... Just like their specs say... That guitar is incredible, though... For any price.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jozluck Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 The problem with purchasing something you cannot hold in your hand is self evident. Music 123 is a 'drop shipper' and often sells guitars that are blems or over runs sold through the Korean manfacturing firm from what I heard. Who knows how the business is run at that end? The American Govt. and the World bank interest could not even stop Iraq from selling oil blackmarket to Dubi for $10 a barrell...LOL! hey, this happens on even that level of business..so.... All the drop shippers use a 'general picture' and description. If you want to buy a guitar, go play it. Its worth the price difference by the time you return it and pay shipping cost as a rule. I got burned, so I know better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman3001 Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 The problem with purchasing something you cannot hold in your hand is self evident. Music 123 is a 'drop shipper' and often sells guitars that are blems or over runs sold through the Korean manfacturing firm from what I heard. Who knows how the business is run at that end? The American Govt. and the World bank interest could not even stop Iraq from selling oil blackmarket to Dubi for $10 a barrell...LOL! hey' date=' this happens on even that level of business..so.... All the drop shippers use a 'general picture' and description. [b']If you want to buy a guitar, go play it. Its worth the price difference by the time you return it and pay shipping cost as a rule. I got burned, so I know better now.[/b] I wish it were that simple. You wouldn't believe the complete state of suckitude that is the music store situation in Miami. The GC near me is a piece of junk. Their inventory sucks ***. Plus, they now refuse to haggle. Most of the guitars I'm interested in are nowhere to be found in their store. Today I decided to take a drive over to the local Sam Ash. Figured they'd be better. I was interested in looking at some of the Michael Kelly guitars. When I walk into the store, first thing I notice is that it's huge. Then I start looking for the guitar wall. Well, I found a big wall with a few guitars on it but the majority of the wall was empty. The few guitars they did have were mainly Jackons and LTDs and some Ibanez. In the entire store they had a total of two, yes, TWO epiphone les pauls. A standard flametop and a custom white/gold. Anyway, both had EE serials and both had the big heel. I'm SO glad I have my old custom with the small heel!!!! Anyway, I then went and tried to get someone to help me find where in the store they had the Michael Kelly guitars. I figured such a big store must have more guitars hidden away somewhere and I just wasn't looking in the right place. Well, I ask the guy if they have Michael Kellys anywhere and he tells me they are discontinued. WTF??? That must be news to the manufacturer!!!!!! On a positive note, they did have ten times the amp selection that guitar center has. Their guitar inventory is absolute **** though. So, unfortunately, not all of us are able to try out the guitars we want at a store, even in a big city like Miami. I miss the GC in Nashville. THAT is what a guitar center should be like! Guitars everywhere. Not too much you can't find there. The sam ash there is ten times better than the sam ash here too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 The GC where I live sucks *** too... They never have anything I'm interested in... And there's nothing else around except for a smaller, local chain called "Daddy's Junky Music"... They sell mostly used guitars... Other than that, there's just little "student" shops... Places that only stock about 15-20 no-name, entry-level guitars because all the big name licenses go to the "big box" stores these days... I'm a big believer in the "play before you pay" imperative... But these days, I've been making a lot of on-line guitar purchases... It doesn't have the same visceral element, but I haven't gotten burned so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Nashville is the center of the guitar universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFG 28 Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 hey everyone im new to the forum, any how I live in toronto canada and I have noticed the same heel differances here as well between different Epi LP models. I lucked out and have the smaller heel on my Zakk Wyld bullseye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Norm Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 My Ultra have a small heel. It's a 2006 and serial number is I06...... think it's from Korea. Very Comfortable guitar to play anywhere on the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Well, we got another white Epi LP Custom in (they've been selling really well, this is the third one in a little over a month) and it's a brand new January '08 EE model... with the big heel. Dunno if I would have noticed it before this thread but it is definitely one huge canker of a heel. Damfino what is going through Epi's mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman3001 Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 Well' date=' we got another white Epi LP Custom in (they've been selling really well, this is the third one in a little over a month) and it's a brand new January '08 EE model... with the big heel. Dunno if I would have noticed it before this thread but it is definitely one huge canker of a heel. Damfino what is going through Epi's mind.[/quote'] just goes to show...people will buy anything because they don't pay attention to stuff like that. Also, a lot of new players probably won't have a point of reference because that's the only type of heel they've seen on epis. Basically they just don't know any better and probably never will. I guarantee you that most people who own the epis with small heels will notice the difference almost immediately. If you play up high on the fretboard, you can't NOT notice the difference. Sad to say but epiphone has lost a customer because of this. I shipped my eagerly anticipated but sorely disappointing silverburst back and picked up this bad boy. I gave epi some time to get back to me to see if they might be able to locate a SB with the small heel as pictured on the MF site but after getting one email back saying they were looking into it, I never heard back again. In the meantime, I did some looking around and found this amazing guitar. I bought it from theperfectguitar.com. I must say, what a difference between dealing with them and dealing with a fulfillment house like Music123/MF. They do the same thing samedaymusic does ::edit:: (I meant sweetwater.com, not samedaymusic. Sameday uses stock photos). The guitar you see on the site is the actual guitar you get. None of that "stock photo from the manufacturer" crap. As soon as I bought the guitar he took the pics down. I also lucked out and ended up talking to the owner of the company when I called in. Great guy, worked me an awesome deal, explained to me the QC process they have before sending out any guitar (which is ten times better than any QC epi or MF does), and was basically a breath of fresh air to talk to. This particular Michael Kelly Limited comes with Rockfield SWC pickups, which are a hundred times better than the stock epis, the craftsmanship is supposedly amazing and everything I've seen and read about them is 100% positive. Also, the pickups are both coil tapped. Lots more tonal possibilities than the LP. So anyway, yeah, I have no idea WTF epi is thinking with those obnoxious heels but they lost a customer because of it. I'll always love my 15 year old epi LP custom though. Their new stuff....blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I don't know anything about MK guitars, but it looks awesome and seems to be quite a bargain at 5 bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 That's a gorgeous axe, man. Looks to me like you came out 100% the winner on this whole deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenrirlupus Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 2 ideas. 1) is it an adjustable neck? if not, 2) is it the same neck glued on incorrectly? why do i think that? because your older guitar's neck points way further to the left (from the perspective the picture was taken) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 2 ideas.1) is it an adjustable neck? if not' date=' 2) is it the same neck glued on incorrectly?[/quote'] No; and No. It's a bigger heel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman3001 Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 2 ideas.1) is it an adjustable neck? if not' date=' 2) is it the same neck glued on incorrectly? why do i think that? because your older guitar's neck points way further to the left (from the perspective the picture was taken)[/quote'] Look at the pictures on page 2 of this thread. It's not adjustable nor is it glued on incorrectly. It's simply that some of them are now coming with these godawful giant heels!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Gibson has "heel length" in the specs for most of their LPs, and it's 0.625" (5/8") for all of them. I don't know the term, would that be the size of the heel that we're talking about? Seems peculiar that Epiphone would knowingly start to deviate from a Gibson standard, it doesn't seem to help the sales at all .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman3001 Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 Gibson has "heel length" in the specs for most of their LPs' date=' and it's 0.625" (5/8") for all of them.I don't know the term, would that be the size of the heel that we're talking about? Seems peculiar that Epiphone would knowingly start to deviate from a Gibson standard, it doesn't seem to help the sales at all .. [/quote'] The thing is, I'll bet that most people won't even notice it. This thread is a good example of that. Until I mentioned it, no one knew. Now that I've mentioned it and posted pics, the difference is obvious, but for most people , unless they have a small heel one that they are very used to and attuned to, they probably won't notice the bigger heels. They'll just have less playability and not know that there are epis with better playability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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