mrjones200x Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 From another thread i done with slightly diff issue. My truss rod seems to adjust as it should, ie; tighten straightens and loosen for relief. But it moved up when i pulled the allen key out and i could see it poking out of the the top of the hole in the head stock. I pushed it back down and put cover back on. It still seems to work whether i tighten or loosen it at the moment. Is this normal or is it bust and needs replacing?? Is it exspensive to sort out if it is bust or not worth the hassle? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I'm not all that expert.. but, I have had truss rod problems to deal with. I know that you can remove the fingerboard.. and I know how to get it off and back on. I'm not that familiar with every truss rod, or even sure if they all are installed the same way. I just haven't had enough experience with them to say for sure. It shouldn't come out like that, for sure.. but if it performs correctly, I don't see why this should be a problem. I'd try to not pull it out.. hold it in when removing the wrench.. as there's no way to tell if it will go back correctly each time. The way to fix it is remove the board.. that's the only way I know of to get at them. You do that with heat. I've pulled the boards off a couple of strats... put a towel or other cloth pad on the board.. use an iron.. heat the board gradaully up and down then start prying at the neck heel.. the idea being to heat the glue, it softens.. then the board will come off. Then you have to clean it all up before regluing. Worked perfectly for me, both times. The rod should be held in place firmly at both ends. You can google this and probably find many pictures and even figure out what your problem is just by looking at them. Been a long time since I had any truss rod issues so I'm afraid I'm just not up on it to help much more. Expensive? Well, usually, Yeah a guy will charge as much as he can, eh? But it's not a hugely complicated or difficult problem. You have to worry about loosening frets, for example.. or using too much heat.. so it definately takes some experience and care, and time. I do repairs all the time, but I just don't run into this much so.. if you get someone who is expert, he isn't going to be cheap. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Nazarenie Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 fret marker melt worries too? what setting do you have your iron on? i have some cheap necks and trying to move the neck forward just undoes the screw. i wonder whats up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 My first Dot Studio had the same problem, an improperly anchored trussrod. And, like yours, it still worked. It was under warranty, I sent it back to Gibson/Epiphone and they sent me a new guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjones200x Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 Had it for 8 months now so would they maybe replace it?? Obviously i'd have to put back in the origanal pickups! Same as your dot. Moves up and down but still works? Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I'd take it back, to the place your purchased it, with your reciept (if possible), and have them fix or replace it. It's not working or seated properly, even though it may do what it's supposed to, for now. Get it fixed, or replaced! You don't have to put up with that! Some guitars just get past the inspectors, or have problems later. That's what warranty's and return policies are designed to take care of. Just my 2-cents worth. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stig Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 My first Dot Studio had the same problem' date=' an improperly anchored trussrod. And, like yours, itstill worked. It was under warranty, I sent it back to Gibson/Epiphone and they sent me a new guitar[/quote'] Good point. The "Limited Lifetime Warranty" doesn't cover much, but I think it would definitely cover a defective truss rod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Had it for 8 months now so would they maybe replace it?? Obviously i'd have to put back in the origanal pickups! Same as your dot. Moves up and down but still works? Weird. I had mine for about 7 months when I discovered the problem. The Gibson customer service guy did' date=' in fact, mention the time factor - I reminded him that it was a LIFETIME warranty. The turnaround getting my new guitar was about a month total. I [i']did[/i] have to pay to ship it to Nashville, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 "Limited Lifetime Warranty"...LOL, Yeah, limited to what Gibson or Epiphone wants to do! (Just kidding) I've never really had any problems, with Gibson or Epiphone, on warranty issues. And, one as obvious as that, shouldn't even be a question! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan 58 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I would talk to Epi and see what they say, might be worth it, and i remember a fellow who modded his guitar and they honored the warrantity any how. Stan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjones200x Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 Anyone know any contact details for epi in the uk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Anyone know any contact details for epi in the uk? No, sorry...but you should be able to find that out, either on the internet, or by going back to where you bought it. I'd try that tact, first...maybe they'll just replace it, and deal with Epiphone, themselves? Won't hurt to try! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjones200x Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 man i love my epi! its finish is the best!! Will talk to them at weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSDx Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 From another thread i done with slightly diff issue. My truss rod seems to adjust as it should' date=' ie; tighten straightens and loosen for relief. But it moved up when i pulled the allen key out and i could see it poking out of the the top of the hole in the head stock. I pushed it back down and put cover back on. It still seems to work whether i tighten or loosen it at the moment. Is this normal or is it bust and needs replacing?? Is it exspensive to sort out if it is bust or not worth the hassle? Thanks[/quote'] Hmmmmmmm ..... dunno if this is revelant or not, but..... I think I can identify with the feeling of the truss rod pulling up with the allen key, but on mine, it feels like it's a "cap" of sorts, with the allen fitting in the top that fits on top of the actual truss rod (internally shaped to fit, so to speak).... feels to me like the truss rod is in the neck, non-moving (other than by cranking) and there's a cap of sorts, which fits the top of the truss rod and has the 4mm allen fitting. Have you tried turning the "rod" with a 4mm key when it's pulled up/out ??? I'd be willing to bet it spins freely...pushing it back into the hole, reseats on top of the rod itself and it works properly. Again, this is all a total blind guess, but that's how mine seems to behave - truss rod works when adjusting, but there have been a couple of occasions when the fitting for the allen key came up to the top of the opening. Push it back down, it re-engages and does what it's supposed to.....in theory - of course I could be way off base and my guitar is f'ed up as well Just a thought..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 This is beginning to look like a true design/production flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 man i love my epi! its finish is the best!! Will talk to them at weekend. Does it have just the square hole, under the truss rod cover, where you have to put the hex wrench, down into the hole (i.e. no visable nut, as in the standard Gibson/Epiphone vintage models)? The only Epi I own, that has that, is the new "Riviera" P-93LE from China. Other's here, have told me, when I questioned it, that it is pretty standard, on "Chinese" made Epi's. (My other Epi's are either Korean, Japanese, or USA.) I, personally, much prefer the visable nut/wrench configuration, of the older Epiphone/Gibson variety. But, maybe that's just because it's what I'm used to, and most comfortable with? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 fret marker melt worries too? what setting do you have your iron on? i have some cheap necks and trying to move the neck forward just undoes the screw. i wonder whats up with that? I didn't say that. And I didn't say me. I said, the heat can cause the fret to lift. I said be careful about the iron setting. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bob Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Does it have just the square hole' date=' under the truss rod cover, where you have to put the hex wrench, down into the hole (i.e. no visable nut, as in the standard Gibson/Epiphone vintage models)? The only Epi I own, that has that, is the new "Riviera" P-93LE from China. Other's here, have told me, when I questioned it, that it is pretty standard, on "Chinese" made Epi's. (My other Epi's are either Korean, Japanese, or USA.) I, personally, much prefer the visable nut/wrench configuration, of the older Epiphone/Gibson variety. But, maybe that's just because it's what I'm used to, and most comfortable with? CB[/quote'] Hi CB - I think I still owe you a reply from another thread on truss-rods, but it might be relevant here. My new Epi 'Joe Pass' has arrived (from Indonesia) and it appears to have the same dual-action rod I encountered in the Epi 175 (also from Indonesia): a hex adjustment down inside what seems to be a metal collar. Clockwise increases tension to reduce relief; anti-clockwise decreases tension ... until the adjustment appears to 'float', before again tension is felt, but this time to increase increase relief. The adjustment, from what I can learn of it (because there was no information or warning with either instrument) should be under tension - in one direction or another - and not left to float. In this 'null' position the rod does appear to be loose, but I assume this is simply because the adjuster is half-way between settings. Having Googled dual-action rods it does appear though that some dual-action rods can be completely withdrawn from the neck, since some types of dual-action rod are not fixed at one end. All I've had to work on though is discussion on this forum and what I can find on the web. Strange 'goings on' with the truss rod might be due to some form of dual-action rod, but it's best to check it out and make sure it is not a faulty rod. I haven't checked the 'Joe Pass' adjustment yet because the neck is spot on, but what would be helpful would be information from the manufacturer about this. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Interesting, Bob...Thanks! I'm afraid I don't have enough experience, with that type of truss rod, to be of any use, here. But I do appreciate your information, and input. Might come in handy, in the future...if/when I need to adjust the Riviers P-93 LE's rod. I'm assuming (dangerous as that is) that it has a similar setup, 'cause it sure isn't like any of my other Gibby's or Epi's. So...??? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjones200x Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 My truss rod by looking at it is an open hole and there is no visible locking nut. The key go's in about an inch id guess then you can start turning for adjustment. When i pulled it up it felt like the whole rod was moving. Will pull it up again to see whether it is a cap over the top of the rod (i wont pull it out fully!) I cant work out how it would work if the whole rod was loose tho as you'd tighten against nothing and surely it would be quite loose Has anyone got a picture of a Lespaul with the fretboard removed so i can see what it all looks like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bob Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 My truss rod by looking at it is an open hole and there is no visible locking nut. The key go's in about an inch id guess then you can start turning for adjustment ... I cant work out how it would work if the whole rod was loose tho as you'd tighten against nothing and surely it would be quite loose. I've got a telecaster (sorry) with an access with no visable adjuster, but there must be something down there because it adjusts - eventually. The confusing thing here is that if the rod had just broken/worked loose at one end turning the adjuster in would (you would think) just pull the rod up out of the neck, and there could be no force applied to the neck. There are dual-action rods that are actually two rods acting against each other (like a bi-metal strip) so that an adjustment will make the rod bend without either end being fixed - but I've not heard of an Epi with this more complex arrangement. I can't really offer much more help than that - I'm still confused by the rods in my Epi 'ES175' and 'Joe Pass'. I still don't know how they work, only that they appear to work OK. I hope it turns out to be something unconventional and not serious trouble; but as earlier good advice says, if you have the option of returning it for a check-up don't let that option elapse without sorting it out - and, above, all don't apply excessive force to the rod under any circumstances. I was in the process of trying to teach it who was boss when reason took over and I began trying to work out what was going on. Try Googling 'dual-action' rods and see if anything there looks familiar. When you get leaflets in the case telling you how oto change the strings and polish it, wouldn't be helpful if they put a sticker on the neck warning about unconventional rods - if that is what it is. Good luck with it Old Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixstring19682 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Not sure if this will be any help or not I had a problem much like this with a fender took the fret board up and found there was a threaded anchor block at the tongue end of the truss rod this was a bargain buy fender squire strat,anyhow the metal that this block was made of wasn't heat treated and some of the threads stripped the truss rod worked both ways to a point as you could guess and it also wanted to pull forward towards the headstock. I managed to fix the problem but in the end (and I know with a set neck this isn't an option)I ended up replacing the neck as I wanted jumbo frets and a maple fret board. I'd say your safest bet would be to return the guitar to the retailer that you got it from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant7629 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Anyone know any contact details for epi in the uk? Go to the dealer where you bought it from first, if no joy from them (and there should be, where did you get if from?)...try Rosetti. I think they have ceased to become the distributor of Epiphone in the UK, but they are really helpful and should be able to point you in the right direction. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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