ItchySox Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Hello Folks, this being my first post be gentle with me please... :- I'm about to buy either a Dot or a Sheraton, are there any productions (years) that I should avoid or go for, or should I simply buy a new one? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 . Sheraton - you will not be disappointed. I recently A/B'd a Sherry against a dozen Gibson ES-335, from brand new to a '59 that was on sale for £24,000. And the only one that gave the £500 Sherry a serious challenge was the '59 - and it was maybe a little better - not 48x better. Get the best you can afford - personally eighties and nineties seem to produce more good ones than lemons. More important than age etc is whether that particular one feels good to you. If it feels good and sounds good unplugged - then plug it in and see what you feel. That is waaaaay more important than when/where it was made. Keep us informed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItchySox Posted November 28, 2008 Author Share Posted November 28, 2008 Well, that's reassuring. I seem to be sliding (no pun intended) over to jazz and Larry C. and Rit being two folks to whom I often listen, it seems like a good move. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 You could go even further man - the fat body, full hollow Emperor or Emperor Regent. Great globs of jazzy tone, all wood and rumble, honey-sweet and juicy. Personally - its Sheraton, but I am stuck in Blues and old Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Get a Sheraton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSAKing Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 For overall playing in a variety of genres - a Sheraton (IMHO). I have several and although the '07 is quite good, there are some subtle differences between it and the '96 Samick model I have. The main difference is the neck. It is less 'chunky' for me and also shorter. Personally I found the pups cleaner on the '07 model I have. That being said, any parts (pups, electrics, tuners) you can pretty well upgrade on your own whenever and as you want. The neck - well.... You will find scads of information on this board about how to go about upgrades should you wish. I also have an Empereor II Joe Pass and it is a lovely instrument. Great value like the Sheraton, but I use it more for Jazz/Fingerpicking (of course it is not limited to that) but I do find for me, the Sheraton is a more all around guitar and extremely well priced for the value it provides. Your best bet is to get your mitts on a few Sheratons and try them. I did find a wide difference in the feel. Hand size I suspect will play a large role in what feels best for you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I'm going to plug that ltd. cust. riv p93 again... sheesh.. three p90s and a bigsby.. but then.. no humbucks.. I use a sheri with p90s so you can understand why I'm tempted. That being said.. I like the dots, too! and gad nice price! Leaves room for some fairly serious upgrades.. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Strum Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I'm a Dot guy (probably because I don't own a Sherri), so I will suggest the Dot. I don't say recommend, because it is so hard to narrow it down to one over the other. Then, like Twang already has, you throw in the Riviera, and some one will be along to toss in the Casino. Of course there are some of us that will suggest downsizing to a Wildkat. The next thing you know, you've bought three or four guitars and you will be blaming us or possibly thanking us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I agree with just strum 100%. furthermore, his is the only reasonable answer. I still want a wildkat, too. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Oh..."Blame away!" I can take it. Riviera P-93 LE! $499.99 (at most on-line Retailers) and a HELL of a guitar, for that, or even twice that price! No, it doen't have "Gibson," on the headstock as a 335 would. But, unless you're independently wealthy and have money to burn....who cares?! It's a tone monster, plays beautifully, looks Great, and (for me) it was the best 500 bucks, I think I've ever spent, on a "Thin-line, Semi-acoustic" guitar. Anyway...enough "Gushing" (on my part)...LOL! Seriously...check one out, if you have the chance. Sheraton's, Casino's, Dot's, and the smaller Wildkats are all seriously nice guitars. The Elitist line (no longer produced, except for the Elitist Casino) is Top Drawer, so any well taken care of, used version of those would be great, too. (There is no "Elitist" Wildkat, however...just the Sheri, standard Riviera (mini-humbuckers), and Dot, in the Thin-line catagory.) Happy hunting... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 . Sheraton - you will not be disappointed. I recently A/B'd a Sherry against a dozen Gibson ES-335' date=' from brand new to a '59 that was on sale for £24,000. And the only one that gave the £500 Sherry a serious challenge was the '59 - and it was maybe a little better - not 48x better. Get the best you can afford - personally eighties and nineties seem to produce more good ones than lemons. More important than age etc is whether that particular one feels good to you. If it feels good and sounds good unplugged - then plug it in and see what you feel. That is waaaaay more important than when/where it was made. Keep us informed..... You know, when I read a post like yours the first thing I think is "my God (That I have difficulty reconciling the existence of), is this kid insecure or what? You A/B'ed a Sheraton against a dozen Gibsons and that ole Sheraton just knocked them all down huh? ...and it was only against the Holy Grail of ES-335s that the Sheraton had a problem and that wasn't even a serious problem. I'm not out to knock Epiphones. In fact, I think Epiphones are excellent values but I think posts like yours are misleading to the people who read them because they aren't based in fact. For one thing, where did you find a dozen Gibson ES-335s in one place including the much sought after and very rare '59(we're talking glass case valuable here) that not only had all these guitars but also brought out a $50K + guitar for you to compare your Epiphone to? ...and after all that the Sheraton just stood head and shoulders above the fray...See how some of your adventure doesn't pan out? What I do think is that you have a Sheraton and you enjoy it and find it to be a fine guitar...and rightfully so but I think the rest of your adventure is pure fantasy and exaggeration which greatly diminishes your reliability for accuracy. You see, dealers who sell guitars like a '59 ES-335 don't whip them out for people to "A/B" against other guitars. The dealers I know who currently have instruments in that range will probably be willing to make a private appointment in a secure location for a serious potential buyer to examine the instrument but they don't have them on the wall at Guitar Cenetr for everyone to check out...get what I'm saying here? If you exaggerate and needlessly so, you diminish the ability for you to be taken seriously. I read your post and the after the first paragraph I'm thinking "oh no, not another one of these clowns" because I'd love to hear the criteria you used for making the assessments of those dozen ES-335s that didn't make the grade against the Sheraton. If you said: "I had the opportunity to play a few ES-335s and my Epiphone Sheraton actually compared quite favorably with them" I'd say that was a statement that was both believable and plausible. The "my Epiphone blew every Gibson in the shop away" statements are both unbelievable and implausible and you still haven't explained the methodology of your comparison beyond it being your obviously prejudiced opinion. Not everyone has the $2500 for the Gibson ES-335 and even if they have the money not everyone requires an ES-335 so monetary issues aside it isn't always about the price of the instrument. The '59 ES-335 isn't forty eight times "better" than the Sheraton but the premium for the '59 isn't about being better. The bog standard $2500 ES-335 against the bog standard $600 Epiphone Sheraton isn't about one guitar being about four times better than the other. These are two different instruments with very different electronics components and different levels of hardware and materials and most importantly they have two very different levels of manufacturing costs. The cost of the nitro-cellulose finish alone on the ES-335 is going to add $300-$500 to the cost of that guitar...The Gibson electronics another minimum of $125...the hardware another $50...the higher quality raw materials another $100 and we haven't even arrived at the manufacturing costs which probably are forty times higher than the costs for the Sheraton so with half the price difference accounted for by the differences in materials and the rest of the price differences more that accounted for in manufacturing costs the differences in prices make complete sense. Next time, rather than making absurd statements about other guitars talk up what you find positive about the Sheraton because I'm pretty familiar with both ES-335s and Sheratons and both guitars are what they are. The ES-335 is a fine professional grade guitar, skillfully made using fine materials and finishes. The Sheraton is a fine guitar made using the most cost-effective methods and inexpensive labor and materials creating an instrument that's more than adequate for all but maybe the touring/recording professional musician with requirements for an instrument able to attain critical standards. One guitar is made to a standard, the other is made to a price point. Both play music in much the same way as a Ferrari and a Ford will both get you from point A to point B at the legal speed limit. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you keep it real you'll be taken a lot more seriously than when you make absurd, unsubstantiated statements and you'll also be doing a better service to those seeking accurate information rather than just trying to validate your choice in guitars or satisfying your ego by going a bit out of reality with your statements. Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchCassidy Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 You can do any of the following and be happy: Dot Studio (with pickup change) Dot p-93 (what a bargain!) Casino Sheraton Joe Pass Broadway Oh, and now that I look at this list i realized that I unconsciously arranged them from lowest to highest in price. You just gotta try them and see what you like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markerdown Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I had a dot deluxe. Nice axe and it took a while to get use to the wide body. Once I played a sheraton, I knew thats what I should have bought. I sold it for an SG elitist....cowabunga!!!!!! :-)........................markerdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Strum Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Oh..."Blame away!" I can take it. Riviera P-93 LE! $499.99 (at most on-line Retailers) and a HELL of a guitar' date='for that, or even twice that price! No, it doen't have "Gibson," on the headstock as a 335 would. But, unless you're independently wealthy and have money to burn....who cares?! It's a tone monster, plays beautifully, looks Great, and (for me) it was the best 500 bucks, I think I've ever spent, on a "Thin-line, Semi-acoustic" guitar. Anyway...enough "Gushing" (on my part)...LOL! Seriously...check one out, if you have the chance. Sheraton's, Casino's, Dot's, and the smaller Wildkats are all seriousl nice guitars. The Elitist line (no longer produced, except for the Elitist Casino) is Top Drawer, so any well taken care of, version of those would be great, too. (There is no "Elitist" Wildkat, however...just the Sheri, standard Riviera (mini-humbuckers), and Dot, in the Thin-line catagory.) Happy hunting... CB[/quote'] I really need to stop reading your posts. I could be on verge of losing everything, selling my guitars for food money, and then read one of your posts and go out guitar shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Well, Nelson's right, too! Gibson's are wonderful instruments, and if you've the means, you really can't go wrong! Sure, there is always a "dog" or two...in ANY brand or model's lot! But, as I've stated before..that's what returns and or warrrenties are for. I just feel, that Epi's offer excellent quality (amazing, at times) for their price point... and even beyond. I have old vintage versions, and newer Japanese (assembled in USA), and Korean Epi's. None of them have disappointed me. Sure, I might change some hardware or electronics, to meet my goals, in tone etc., But the stock components will certainly get the job done, until you decide to "mod" or "upgrade" them. Cheers, CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Woah there Nelson. Before you fire off, just check your facts. I went to a guitar collector called Norman Mitchell who has several hundred guitars, most of which are in his (relatively private) showroom in Horncastle, Lincolnshire. I didn't want to try them, just admire them from afar whilst I tried out the Sheraton. He kept bringing these awesome Gibsons over and suggesting I compare and contrast. And yes - the '59 DID come out of the glass case, at the back of the shop. He is an enthusiast, I can play, and he wanted to hear them as much as he wanted to show them off. I did not say the Sheraton 'stood head and shoulders above the fray' - read the post, I said they didn't give it a serious challenge, as in they were on a par with, roughly the same as or only slightly better than. I am not a kid - 56 years old, playing now for 46 years, and knocking around the biz off and on for 35 years. This collector and I have chewed the fat about these things for a while, and he knew where I was coming from and where I wanted to be, and bless him, he wanted to give me a rare opportunity. Which I took with open arms, and spent an entire afternoon just as I described. How dare you say my post is 'not based in fact'. Who the heck gave you the right to be judge and jury, and opine on something in my life which you know nothing about. Your points about the differences in manufacture and materials are well made, as is my point that it is hard to justify the difference in cost if you are after a player rather than a collector. So do NOT misquote me, do NOT put words into my mouth and do NOT call me a liar when I tell you what actually happened. Oh - and that respect I gave you for putting Milky Way as your location..... .....forget it, You are a total ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 This always happens, when folks start comparing Gibby's to Epi's! ;>p LOL! So, again I'll quote dear John...."IT's ALL ****!!" Play whay you want, love, and/or... can afford. Peace! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Strum Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 This collector and I have chewed the fat about these things for a while' date=' and he knew where I was coming from and where I wanted to be, and bless him, he wanted to give me a rare opportunity. Which I took with open arms, and spent an entire afternoon just as I described. [/quote'] Now it would really be cool if that statement read "...he wanted to give me a rare guitar." You may have created the thread that will push the "Beatles overrated" to the cellar. Hope the two of you can play nice. I hate to see real contributers getting into these sort of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 I sort of felt the way Thermionik did when a troll accused me of saying that Chinese-made Epiphones are crap because I didn't like my Ibanez. Pretty long stretch there. I played an ES-335 for years, and then sold it. I have to admit that the finish and workmanship on my Sheraton Elitist are actually better than my Gibson was (they were cranking out a lot of them back in the mid-60's. In fact, there were enough flaws in the finish that it shouldn't have made it past QC (purple stain on the ivory binding, a blob of purple stain where the wood should have been nice and yellow-orange). Gibsons in the early 60's were carved by hand, a difficult and time-consuming process. Computer-controlled machines can now do the carving in much less time and to much greater tolerances for much less money. So I guess I'm saying that I don't find that much practical difference between the Elitist Sheraton and my old 335. I would like for the Sheraton to be nitro-finished, and I wish that the gold plating were more than 1 atom thick. Now, to really stir the pot, I like my MIK Sheraton too. I'd better bail out while the bailing is good...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Now it would really be cool if that statement read "...he wanted to give me a rare guitar." You may have created the thread that will push the "Beatles overrated" to the cellar. Hope the two of you can play nice. I hate to see real contributers getting into these sort of things. Proud owners of guns, cameras, and guitars like to share their treasure with others. I rarely have a day at the indoor range when someone doesn't insist that I give their "piece" a try. Maybe it's male bonding. No female ever offered her gun, her guitar, or her camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Hello Folks' date=' this being my first post be gentle with me please... I'm about to buy either a Dot or a Sheraton, are there any productions (years) that I should avoid or go for, or should I simply buy a new one? Thanks.[/quote'] Folks here are split on which is the "better" guitar. The are very much alike in many respects. The metal finish will last longer on the Dot as the Sheraton has a pretty thin gold plating. The inlays on the fretboard are prettier than the dots on the dot. I have a Samick-made Dot, and it is very well made. If you are buying used, you might look for one made by Samick or Unsung. The owners of the guitars made in the new Chinese plant seem to be pleased (me included). If you are a P90 kind of guy, don't rule out the Casino (hollow rather than semihollow) or the recent 3-P90 Riviera (semihollow) that just came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Strum Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Proud owners of guns' date=' cameras, and guitars like to share their treasure with others. I rarely have a day at the indoor range when someone doesn't insist that I give their "piece" a try. Maybe it's male bonding. No female ever offered her gun, her guitar, or her camera.[/quote'] Hey, you posted without reference to the Bible. See, the rehab treatment is working. Oh, and you're full of crap about the 335 (joke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelson Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Woah there Nelson. Before you fire off' date=' just check your facts. I went to a guitar collector called Norman Mitchell who has several hundred guitars, most of which are in his (relatively private) showroom in Horncastle, Lincolnshire. I didn't want to try them, just admire them from afar whilst I tried out the Sheraton. He kept bringing these awesome Gibsons over and suggesting I compare and contrast. And yes - the '59 DID come out of the glass case, at the back of the shop. He is an enthusiast, I can play, and he wanted to hear them as much as he wanted to show them off. I did not say the Sheraton '[i']stood head and shoulders above the fray[/i]' - read the post, I said they didn't give it a serious challenge, as in they were on a par with, roughly the same as or only slightly better than. I am not a kid - 56 years old, playing now for 46 years, and knocking around the biz off and on for 35 years. This collector and I have chewed the fat about these things for a while, and he knew where I was coming from and where I wanted to be, and bless him, he wanted to give me a rare opportunity. Which I took with open arms, and spent an entire afternoon just as I described. How dare you say my post is 'not based in fact'. Who the heck gave you the right to be judge and jury, and opine on something in my life which you know nothing about. Your points about the differences in manufacture and materials are well made, as is my point that it is hard to justify the difference in cost if you are after a player rather than a collector. So do NOT misquote me, do NOT put words into my mouth and do NOT call me a liar when I tell you what actually happened. Oh - and that respect I gave you for putting Milky Way as your location..... .....forget it, You are a total ****. Right, if you say so. Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Hey' date=' you posted without reference to the Bible. See, the rehab treatment is working. Oh, and you're full of crap about the 335 (joke).[/quote'] DOH!! (Homer Simpson noise) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 So Nelson mis-quotes me, puts words into my mouth and suggests my post was 'not based in fact'. And the best he can come up with is 'Right. if you say so.' For those of you who were looking foward to a flame-war..... Forget it, I can't waste time trying to get the chip off that punk's shoulder, nor the mote from his eye. However - if'n yah want to talk guitars, I've played a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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