Guitar Solo Length...

[charlie brown]

OK, you've found your favorite "Epiophone" guitar, amp tone combination.

You know some great licks and phrasing.

So, how long do you play that "lead" break, or solo?

Do you just "fill," do your shred endlessly, in an around

the vocalist? 8, 16, 24, 32 bars...or more? What's your

opinion, of the ideal solo? Or...IS there and "Ideal" solo

length? We talked about "Shredding vs. Melodic," but...

we seldom mention duration.

 

What do you all think?

 

CB

[stan 58]

My solos are short, thats why i drive a Corvette. Stan

[28v6r]

A Little Red one Perhaps??

 

It all depends really, I mean Dave Gilmour boasts of a solo lasting up to 15mins?? so it depends really although Stan does have a good point...

[RevCharlieD]

What does the music call for? Less is More!

[Ricochet]

A good solo is like storytelling. Whatever it is, the short proverbial insightfull one or elongated epic drama, keep it interesting...

[IntelligentAl]

Whatever the song needs!

 

As I have mentioned before, I am a big fan of Angus Young, and I like the way he plays a solo for just a few bars, but then continues it for the rest of the song. For an example of this, listen to AC/DC's new 'Rock n' Roll Train'. Even after the main solo has finished, it carries on over the chorus and sounds great! To me, that is the ideal solo, but it all depends on the song...

[Mugatu]

I'm very inexperienced, so my opinion counts for zip, but I'm doing a lot of simple little 12 bar solos at the moment. My brain can sort of imagine that far ahead, and where it wants to go within the 12 bar pattern. I'm trying to stretch it up to improvising for a second round up to the 24 bar length, but I'm finding it a struggle to get my head to keep up, and I often run out of ideas at some point. Either that, or I get a bit repetitive. I'm still working on it, I've not been learning lead for very long at all.

 

I'd agree that it depends on the song though. 8 bars can be plenty, sometimes.

[charlie brown]

One reason I had asked this, is because there seems to be so much made of the "boredom"

thing, with "shredding," or to long solos, that go beyond (maybe) what they should? Jazz, for example,

is (quite often) full of long soloing...not guitar so much (although sometimes), but sax, trumpet,

piano, etc. But, unless it's vocal oriented...it's a "free form" style of music. So, I guess that's

to be expected, somewhat. But, I (personally) can be bored to tears, by even the best technically

adept guitar, horn or piano players, who solo endlessly, no matter the musical style. And, by the

responses to other threads, I see I'm not alone, that way. With "recorded" music, especially that

geared toward "radio," there was a time limit placed on anything that was going to be played in

rotation, in the early days...of about 2-3 minutes, max. With FM, that changed a bit, and musicians

changed their approach, as well. Dylan sang forever...Clapton, Page, Hendrix, and others played

solos forever, as well...as brilliant as they were. "Live" versions, of a lot of those "classic" rock staples,

were all over the place, time wise...as were the solos. And, frankly, not all were better...by being

longer! I understand the "getting in a groove" thing, as well as anyone. But I also love and

appreciate, economy...and that brilliance, as well.

 

So I was just really curious, as to how the rest of you felt, that way.

 

CB

[28v6r]

What type of music do you play CB?

 

My curiosity is aroused by your definitions of soloing.. How long do you for on any particular song baring in mind that you improvise rather than play exact...

[51xt33]

I think that a solo should be an extension to the song. A part of the song. Neither short nor long but just right:-"

OK, I guess that each song should dictate the length of the solo. To me, a solo should be a part of the song, something that "fits" within the song, that adds to the song not takes away or distracts from it. I don't think that you, OK I could set a standardized length to the solo. I also don't think that every song would sound right with soloing over/with the vocals. Some songs, like "2 tickets to paradise" would be less without the soloing thoughout the whole song. Other songs would be ruined if the guitar was soloing through the whole song.

Great post CB. I've been curious to hear others thoughts on this as well.

[charlie brown]

What type of music do you play CB?

 

My curiosity is aroused by your definitions of soloing.. How long do you for on any particular song baring in mind that you improvise rather than play exact...

 

Well, I play "Blues," or "Blues based Rock," quite a lot, and I love

Byrds, Beatles, Buffalo Springfield, CSNY, etc. So, most of what I

like is vocally oriented, story telling, etc. I rarely play really long

extended solos...maybe 24 bar (rarely 32)...mostly 12 to 24 I guess?

As many have said, it Does depend on the song, the mood/groove,

etc. But, I'm finding I really like the "Less Is More" thing..more and

more! One of my all time favorite solos, was "Crossroads" on "Wheels

of Fire!" It was somewhat lengthy, but split into two sections, which

allow for that, and increased it's effectiveness, too..IMHO. I always

liked Dicky Betts' solo in "One Way Out," a lot, too. Maybe because it

was quite similar, in some respects, to Clapton's "Crossroads" solo.

But I know, it's all kind of a personal preference thing...I was just

curious, you know?

 

CB

[28v6r]

Fantasic reply, however, " How do you know what length of solo will fit the song??"

 

I mean, you look at Angus Young as already stated his method "fits" the song and is played all the way through however look at Dave Gilmour & Comfortably Numb - allegedly the solo in that song can be up to 15mins pending on if as he puts it " he feels inventive otherwise he plays safe" so how do you know?

[charlie brown]

Yeah, a lot of it sometimes depends on what's being done, within the framework or time alotted

to the "solo!" Some put in "too many notes," no matter how long or short their actual solo is.

Others, can do brilliant things, with 3 notes! Or, even 1 note! There was a version of EC's

"Wonderful Tonight," where the last solo started with a longgggg sustained bended note, that

just gave me (and everyone sitting around me) goose bumps! The rest of the solo was tastefully

ecomomized, as well. On the other hand, I like what Richie Blackmore used to do, with Deep Purple,

a lot, as well. He was always very tasteful, and used unusual (at the time) phrasings, too.

 

CB

[28v6r]

 

Well' date=' I play "Blues," or "Blues based Rock," quite a lot, and I love

Byrds, Beatles, Buffalo Springfield, CSNY, etc. So, most of what I

like is vocally oriented, story telling, etc. I rarely play really long

extended solos...maybe 24 bar (rarely 32)...mostly 12 to 24 I guess?

As many have said, it Does depend on the song, the mood/groove,

etc. But, I'm finding I really like the "Less Is More" thing..more and

more! One of my all time favorite solos, was "Crossroads" on "Wheels

of Fire!" It was somewhat lengthy, but split into two sections, which

allow for that, and increased it's effectiveness, too..IMHO. I always

liked Dicky Betts' solo in "One Way Out," a lot, too. Maybe because it

was quite similar, in some respects, to Clapton's "Crossroads" solo.

But I know, it's all kind of a personal preference thing...I was just

curious, you know?

 

CB[/quote']

 

No Offence but is Gary Moore to new for you?

 

I have to say that I like your reply and it conforms to what some one else has said that blues tends to be a "story telling" in music, I'd be inclined to go with that looking at people like John Lee Hooker, BB King etc and others where as again Dave Gilmour says ( You'd think I was a huge fan wouldn't you ) He uses the guitar to express his thoughts as he's not very good with words ( although very eloquent!) Pete Townsend is the same, he feel that he can't put across in words how he feels but, given a guitar and hes off, screeds of soloing etc..

[bloozeguy]

Am having something of this discussion in my band. As I'm the one calling off the tunes, I am being told--and rightly so, methinks--if they're up and dancing to it, keep it going. Meaning another solo chorus, and just bop till they drop, don't be limited by what (we think) is the "right" length of the song. And this from our most frequent soloist.

To veer from guitarism for just a minute, there's the story about Duke Ellington's band at the 1956 Newport Jazz Festival when Paul Gonsalves, his alto (or was it tenor?) player played an incredible number of solo choruses on one tune, cuz everything was just building and building.

Sometimes ya just hafta go with the flow in the moment.

[charlie brown]

 

No Offence but is Gary Moore to new for you?

 

I have to say that I like your reply and it conforms to what some one else has said that blues tends to be a "story telling" in music' date=' I'd be inclined to go with that looking at people like John Lee Hooker, BB King etc and others where as again Dave Gilmour says ( You'd think I was a huge fan wouldn't you ) He uses the guitar to express his thoughts as he's not very good with words ( although very eloquent!) Pete Townsend is the same, he feel that he can't put across in words how he feels but, given a guitar and hes off, screeds of soloing etc..[/quote']

 

No, Gary Moore is not "too new" for me..LOL! I was simply using just a few examples. And, I'm

not (really) saying that everyone needs to play the same length solos, short or long. Just interested

in people opinions, and feelings on the subject, really.

 

Bob Neuwirth mentioned in a Dylan documentary, that the cirteria, for musicians or artists merit (in the early to mid 60s') was "did they have something to say?" Rather than being economically (money) driven, at that time. I guess that's what I enjoy hearing, in "solos" too...something to say! As long as that happens, and feels genuine, then "length" isn't that big of a deal, really.

 

CB

[charlie brown]

Am having something of this discussion in my band. As I'm the one calling off the tunes' date=' I am being told--and rightly so, methinks--if they're up and dancing to it, keep it going. Meaning another solo chorus, and just bop till they drop, don't be limited by what (we think) is the "right" length of the song. And this from our most frequent soloist.

To veer from guitarism for just a minute, there's the story about Duke Ellington's band at the 1956 Newport Jazz Festival when Paul Gonsalves, his alto (or was it tenor?) player played an incredible number of solo choruses on one tune, cuz everything was just building and building.

Sometimes ya just hafta go with the flow in the moment. [/quote']

 

That's another thing...what the audience wants/expects/allows. And, we all know...they'll let you know! LOL!

 

CB

[Nelson]

OK' date=' you've found your favorite "Epiophone" guitar, amp tone combination.

You know some great licks and phrasing.

So, how long do you play that "lead" break, or solo?

Do you just "fill," do your shred endlessly, in an around

the vocalist? 8, 16, 24, 32 bars...or more? What's your

opinion, of the ideal solo? Or...IS there and "Ideal" solo

length? We talked about "Shredding vs. Melodic," but...

we seldom mention duration.

 

What do you all think?

 

CB[/quote']

 

Nothing on TV , Charlie?

[charlie brown]

 

Nothing on TV ' date=' Charlie?[/quote']

 

LOL! Is there EVER?!!!

 

CB

[Beans]

What does the music call for? Less is More!

 

 

Ditto!

[AyushPresley]

Solos are played to be Played i guess. lol

but I think it all depends upon what u r playing like said before if it's endless shredding with no melody at all i would rather have 5 seconds of that but would listen to 15 mins of solo if played by BB King. it also depends on genres i guess. If it's metal or Rock or something like that then i'd prefer solos to be short say about 3-4 minutes maximum but if i am listening to some jazz or blues then i'd want the solos to be long. doesn't it depend upon the genres as well ?? IMO it does..

[Dave]

Soloing for the sake of soloing is like talking to fill empty space. Some people just talk to hear themselves speak.

 

That said, a solo should augment the singers effort. Solos were first implemented to give the singer a "break". Four hour gigs can ruin a singer's throat, so instrumental breaks were incorporated to allow the singer to lay back and recuperate.

 

Start slowly and melodically and build to a crescendo. If you can do it in 12 bars, good enough. If it takes 24 bars, that can be good. Dickie Betts is the master of the build. If you listen to his solos on the Allman Borthers Live at Fillmore East, you will hear Dickie in the right channel starting slowly and soulfully and taking the solo to a screaming finish. There's lots to be learned from this guy.

 

A good solo in jazz/rock/blues will work around the melody and build upon it. A hard rock solo, such as one from Slash, will build tension or augment the singer. Slash tends to work from a modal aspect, playing the same or similar notes over a changing chord structure. This can be very interesting. i.e. Sweet Child of Mine. Listen to the modal changes in the opening solo riff. If the term Modal is new to you, google MODE SCALE and you will find a useful solo tool.

 

click here for a start http://guitar.about.com/library/weekly/aa052001c.htm

[larkin38]

Not really a fan of solos. That`s why The Ramones are my favorite band.

But solos should be short and sweet like George Harrison or John Fogerty.

Not rambling 20 minute jams like Cream played. Even Jimi Hendrix bored me after a while.

I have a very short attention span.

[Guest alanhindle]

Whatever the song needs!

 

As I have mentioned before' date=' I am a big fan of Angus Young, and I like the way he plays a solo for just a few bars, but then continues it for the rest of the song. For an example of this, listen to AC/DC's new 'Rock n' Roll Train'. Even after the main solo has finished, it carries on over the chorus and sounds great! To me, that is the ideal solo, but it all depends on the song...[/quote']

 

Like Al, I'm a massive Angus fan and I agree with Al's comments above.

 

I like a solo to have changes in tempo, changes in key (especially when the rhythm guitar changes key during the solo), and at some points to link with parts of the main song in order to fit well.

 

My all time favorite Angus Solo is on the unsubtly titled 'Go Down' track which is taken from the Let There be Rock album. This solo has all of the above. In addition, it has attack and aggression yet is full of blues feeling. After the main solo finishes I like the way Angus then duals with Bon Scott, whose range of screech is more than a match for the fret access of the SG.

 

Here's a link to an audio of the track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t7e_TKzrYc

 

The solo starts just after 2:30 but you need to listen to the whole song to appreciate how the solo fits in and how down right aggressive this one is. For non AC/DC fans the lyrics will provide entertainment if nothing else. You will wish you knew Mary and Ruby!

[RSDx]

Not really a fan of solos. That`s why The Ramones are my favorite band.

But solos should be short and sweet like George Harrison or John Fogerty.

.

Hmmmmmm Ramones are also a huge fave here..... but I do indeed appreciate tasteful solos (of whatever length.....if it works' date=' it works, just depends...) [img']http://www.best-smilies.com/smilies/Music/6v2_best-smilies.com_music248.gif[/img]