superbadj Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Just bought a used Korean (2000, Peerless) Casino (natural finish). Supposed to be in perfect shape, with the case. Paid more than I'd ideally like...but still less than new one. I've been reading up on various Casino bits and pieces, and it seems the Peerless models are some of the most highly regarded (among the standard versions, not including Elitist models). My question is essentially this. Would you prefer a brand-new, Chinese-made Casino? or a 2000 model Peerless-made (but used) casino? If the Korean model was used, but supposedly in like-new condition (as this one is supposed to be), how would you vote? Just curious. I heard that early Casinos from the new Chinese plant had quality issues, but that maybe the newer ones were better than before, and maybe as good as the best Korean versions? Anyone with actual experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schtang Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 i would go used. I try to avoid chinese guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stig Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 My Casino is Chinese. I love it. I own 13 guitars, and on paper, the Epi should be the worst of them. I play it constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I have been very satisfied with the two Epi Les Pauls I have purchased. I replaced the humbuckers on my flametop, but the P90s on my Goldtop are fine. Chinese quality from Qing Dao has progressed nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugatu Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Supposed to be in perfect shape, with the case. Paid more than I'd ideally like... If the Korean model was used, but supposedly in like-new condition (as this one is supposed to be), I'm reading between the lines here, but are you somehow not happy with your purchase? Was it below par, condition wise? Personally, I have a Korean Samick Sheraton, 1997, and I'm very pleased with it. It wouldn't really bother me whether a guitar was new or used, just that it felt right and played right. But then, I've no experience of Chinese made Epi's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbadj Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 Mugatu: nope, she hasn't arrived yet. That's why I kept saying "supposed." I'm hopeful that she's as-advertised. I had bid on a few on Ebay, and lost those bids at the last moment, but I bought this one with the Buy It Now feature.....so I paid a bit more than I may have been able to get it for otherwise, but I also made sure I got it. The sender sent LOADS of detail pics, including the serial number inside, headstock front/rear, and every square inch of the body. So I feel pretty confident, since they weren't afraid to send really nice detail pics. But you never know until you hold something in your hands, you know? So really, just passing the time until it arrives. And since I'd read so much about the Peerless models, and quality issues (early, then supposedly being much better now) at Qing Dao, it just made me curious. I found a place online to grab a Casino at $630 new with a case. Not bad. I guess part of me wondered "should I have just gotten a new one" since that price is about $100 more than I paid for a used one. But if she's a player and looks good, that's really all I'll care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Since I prefer a NAT Casino, I would go with whichever one had the nicest looking wood grain, regardless of the factory. When I went shopping for a Casino, I expected to purchase a new one. But when I saw the 2001 Peerless one at GC, I knew I'd be taking that one home. I suspect the early QC issues in China have been ironed out by now. When they shifted production from Japan to Korea they had similar problems at first (at least so I've read). On the other hand, if your Peerless Casino is as nice as mine, you should be plenty happy with it. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbadj Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 I've seen that pic a number of times during my Casino research. Beautiful guitars! That's actually a picture (and your personal review of yours) that convinced me that this one would do the trick. The pics that I have aren't as "nice" (on-camera flash washes out the color), so I'll have to see when the guitar arrives whether the grain measures up to yours. But the fact that you said that yours plays so well. Let's hope mine is as good! Looking forward to it..... sbj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisKevin Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I must say the quality of the Riviera P93 is stunning and it is Chinese. My Korean Dot (1999) has alot to be desired in the fit and finish department. Paint bled into the area where the neck meets the body, and they poly coated over it at the factory. The hardware is rather cheap feeling. It plays nice, but I would much rather go with the new Chinese factory that only makes Epiphones over an older guitar from Korea made by a multi purpose builder who rebranded their merchandise. I also think guitar players demand more quality for their money out of a guitar then they did 10-15 years ago, and this has forced the companies to step up with the products being shipped over here. $500.00 gets you the equivelant of $1000.00 worth of quality from a decade ago. I don't know where this anti China Epiphone thing has come from(some early production models I suppose), or if people just assume if it's even a little bit older it's better. Alot of Ebay sellers use the Korean made tag when selling used Epi's as if it is at a a premium over China Epi's in tone, quality, and vibe. Maybe Epi's samick pickups of the era were more chimy, but the P90'S on my Riviera are monsters. My opinion is the Chinese models are superior. Look at the new Dot's.........the one's I have seen in the flat finishes are amazingly good. You would really be able to see quality issues on a badly made guitar with a flat finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougg330 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I've owned 2 Korean Casinos and now have one Chinese one. My Chinese-made Casino is better than either of the 2 Koreans I had. They both had fret and electronics issues - this one does not. But, I have a Peerless-made Zephyr Regent that is nothing short of spectacular - so I guess there is a tremendous amount of variance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I have to concur with ChrisKevin on the quality of the Chinese Riviera P-93LE. Awesome! Tone and playability, too! And, since Quingdao is a dedicated (only to Epiphone) factory, it makes sense, they will do the absolute best they can to deliver products they (and we) will be proud of. The Korean guitars are great, though, no doubt. But, I had asked a question in another thread, about current Chinese body specs, being more like the original Kalamazoo versions, and we actually got a positive answer to that, from an Administrator (Epi1), confirming what I had observed. So...it seems they are really trying, to get back to actual Epiphone quality/specs. I can't help but wonder, too...if they will reintroduce the "Elitist" models (but, maybe not call them that) and strive for that quality, now that they have this dedicated factory. We can only hope, I guess? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Strum Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 It's not where it was made, it's how it was made. Just don't post how your Chinese Epi is just as good as a Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stig Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I have to concur with ChrisKevin on the quality of the Chinese Riviera P-93LE. Awesome! Tone and playability' date=' too! And, since Quingdao is a dedicated (only to Epiphone) factory, it makes sense, they will do the absolute best they can to deliver products they (and we) will be proud of. The Korean guitars are great, though, no doubt. But, I had asked a question in another thread, about current Chinese body specs, being more like the original Kalamazoo versions, and we actually got a positive answer to that, from an Administrator (Epi1), confirming what I had observed. So...it seems they are really trying, to get back to actual Epiphone quality/specs. I can't help but wonder, too...if they will reintroduce the "Elitist" models (but, maybe not call them that) and strive for that quality, now that they have this dedicated factory. We can only hope, I guess? CB[/quote'] Isn't the Chinese factory supervised by Gibson personnel? I would think that would lead to better quality, being a dedicated plant with Gibson quality control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabar Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I'd pick a Peerless or Samick over a Chinese one any day. The other Korean factories I wouldn't have as strong a preference. Some of the early Chinese Casinos had a distinctly wrong body shape -- less curvy and more straightened out. If they've corrected that, they might be worth considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leewaun Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I would go with the Chinese. I had Korean epi's and back then they where still using lots of alder in the Les Pauls. Alder does not belong in Les Pauls. The chinese have no alder anymore in their Les Pauls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I cannot find fault with my Chinese Riviera, and my Chinese Eastman is really nicely constructed. The Epiphone plant in China doesn't seem to suffer from the miserable quality control that is plaguing Chinese products. [This message is being typed on a Chinese made Dell computer that is on its 4th motherboard in 10 months.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ant7629 Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 The Chinese models are great now. I would try to aim for a 07/08 model though as it took them a few years to get it right. They have surpassed the Korean ones now IMO. Its just the out of box set ups are terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisKevin Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I have a 1983 Gibson Les Paul Studio Custom which has an all alder body, and it sings and resonates just like any good mahogany/maple paul. I am not a "tonewood" nazi personally, and believe a guitars tone is 99% player/pickups/hardware. I tricked out a early 90's squier II fender years ago (heavey laminated crapwood) with upgraded parts, and it is my number 1 guitar to this day. I don't think any other of my player friends plays it and goes......hmmmmmmm this isn't alder or ash...what kind of strat is this? My Studio Paul also has Tim Shaw reissue PAF'S as original, and man do they put out some great tones. Put those pickups in a Hondo Les Paul, and you will good good tones if the hardware and setup is good, and if the guy can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Presto Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I'm sure loving my '04 MIK Casino natural. I've seen the finish on the Chinese-made Casinos; they're not nearly as nice as the MIK's...at least mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Presto Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 Since I prefer a NAT Casino' date=' I would go with whichever one had the nicest looking wood grain, regardless of the factory. When I went shopping for a Casino, I expected to purchase a new one. But when I saw the 2001 Peerless one at GC, I knew I'd be taking that one home. [img']http://www.nortonmusic.com/GuitarCousins2.JPG[/img] I suspect the early QC issues in China have been ironed out by now. When they shifted production from Japan to Korea they had similar problems at first (at least so I've read). On the other hand, if your Peerless Casino is as nice as mine, you should be plenty happy with it. Insights and incites by Notes N_N: I owned a cherry red 330 in the mid-70s and ended up selling it to a "friend" for $250.00 because I wanted to buy a Guild dreadnaught (which I still have). Shortly after that I learned he sold to a pawn shop for next to nothing. I'm still killing myself over that one! Anyway, your 330 looks great and makes me want to cry. Waaaah! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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