Epi Les Paul standard better than the Gibson LP studio!

[Mr.Nelson]

 

I understand what you are trying to say but I was not bringing up the Epi vs Gibson debate. I just think the Gibson should have been better than it was. I feel Gibson should give a guitar that is worth the price they ask' date=' and the studio that I played did not live up to the name on the headstock. but your right i knew people would say things like they have been. for these people they just like *****ing at others. [/quote']

 

The Epiphone Vs. Gibson debate happens because it's a thinly-veiled attempt to make a comparison between the two brands when in reality there is no criteria for comparison on any level...but the debate raises questions and allows people to introduce pretzel logic to somehow remove the fact that they are two completely differently entities...made to sell in two distinctly different niches, made using two entirely different manufacturing methods using two entirely different levels of materials and component parts..I actually blame Epiphone and its deceptive marketing practices for creating and perpetuating the debate..Epiphones aren't even close to Gibsons except in very general appearance...that's where any similarity ends. After that it's up to the consumer to make the informed buying decision..and how informed that decision is depends on how based in reality that consumer is about the actuality of the two different products...with some Epiphone owners there's almost a desperation to remove any differences between Gibson and Epiphone and that's when they start courting delusions...the debates will continue because there's a need for even the most basic consideration of comparison on the part of some Epiphone owners. I can look at a Gibson and I can look at an Epiphone and I immediately see the very obvious differences because I'm not trying to turn one into the other...some Epiphone owners make that observation and make the stretch to perceive the similarities because that qualifies and validates their choices...establishing factual assessments isn't Epiphone bashing..it's intelligent consumerism..

 

and don't think for one minute that I fall for pretty much the same crap Gibson also uses to sell its guitars...

 

Mr.Nelson

[Mr.Nelson]

 

It's not about appearance or the cost of the woods used. It's about functionality for what 99% of owners need from their guitars. We're not all paupers who are beneath you as you seem to think. Many of us have Gibsons as well as Epiphones. We just happen to think that Epiphone make great guitars for the money.

 

Read the thread. You just can't see this but nobody ever said that Gibsons weren't' date=' on the whole, better. The high end ones, in particular, are just not worth their extortionate price for that bit extra that they give you over the equivalent Epi. What people are saying in this thread is that they are often disappointed with what you get for that significant extra outlay. They expect to pick the Gibby up and be blown away. The fact is when you play them there just ain't that much in it, especially if you're prepared to make pickup and electronics upgrades.

 

Gibson are charging these prices based upon the history of the name, the place where they're made and, to an extent, the extra cost of the materials/processes used. If you want to talk about paying extra for looks this is again, an area where Gibson offers poor value for money. Sure, a full nitro finished Les Paul or SG with all the binding and MOP looks nice and is more costly to produce but it's definitely a rip off compared to the equally functional poly/plastic option from Epi.

 

So, if you're like Canine and don't care about the name on the headstock because you don't need it to make you feel important..........then walk out of the store with the guitar that sounds and feels best to you and gives you good value for money.

 

You almost had a valid point when you said the melody maker would be better than the upgraded Epi custom. It really would depend on what you wanted out of the guitar. However, as usual, you went totally the wrong way about it just to stir things up. You won't rest until everbody concurs with your view point.

 

We all understand what you're saying. The problem is that you can't appreciate what we're saying.

[/quote']

 

You keep telling yourself that...

 

Mr.Nelson

[BlueLesPaul2006]

 

The Epiphone Vs. Gibson debate happens because it's a thinly-veiled attempt to make a comparison between the two brands when in reality there is no criteria for comparison on any level...but the debate raises questions and allows people to introduce pretzel logic to somehow remove the fact that they are two completely differently entities...made to sell in two distinctly different niches' date=' made using two entirely different manufacturing methods using two entirely different levels of materials and component parts..I actually blame Epiphone and its deceptive marketing practices for creating and perpetuating the debate..Epiphones aren't even close to Gibsons except in very general appearance...that's where any similarity ends. After that it's up to the consumer to make the informed buying decision..and how informed that decision is depends on how based in reality that consumer is about the actuality of the two different products...with some Epiphone owners there's almost a desperation to remove any differences between Gibson and Epiphone and that's when they start courting delusions...the debates will continue because there's a need for even the most basic consideration of comparison on the part of some Epiphone owners. I can look at a Gibson and I can look at an Epiphone and I immediately see the very obvious differences because I'm not trying to turn one into the other...some Epiphone owners make that observation and make the stretch to perceive the similarities because that qualifies and validates their choices...establishing factual assessments isn't Epiphone bashing..it's intelligent consumerism..

 

and don't think for one minute that I fall for pretty much the same crap Gibson also uses to sell its guitars...

 

Mr.Nelson[/quote']

 

I think your missing my point. I never said that Epiphones were as good as Gibsons. What I am saying is that the LP studio from Gibson that I played did not do it for me. It is every penny worth the money just not for me. I will take my Epi LP standard over the Gibson studio any day. I just like the way mine feels. Having said that I have played the new Gibson LP standard 2008 and that guitar rocks. I feel the Gibson standard beats my Epi on all fronts. I do not have the money right now for the Gobson standard due to the fact that I am spending my money on college. When I do get the money you can bet your a$$ im going to get the Gibson standard. But the Gibson studio did not wow me like the standard does. I just expected more from the studio than I got. as for me upgrading my Epi I am not trying to change my Epi into a Gibson I just am interested in modding my LP.

[Mr.Nelson]

 

I think your missing my point. I never said that Epiphones were as good as Gibsons. What I am saying is that the LP studio from Gibson that I played did not do it for me. It is every penny worth the money just not for me. I will take my Epi LP standard over the Gibson studio any day. I just like the way mine feels. Having said that I have played the new Gibson LP standard 2008 and that guitar rocks. I feel the Gibson standard beats my Epi on all fronts. I do not have the money right now for the Gobson standard due to the fact that I am spending my money on college. When I do get the money you can bet your a$$ im going to get the Gibson standard. But the Gibson studio did not wow me like the standard does. I just expected more from the studio than I got. as for me upgrading my Epi I am not trying to change my Epi into a Gibson I just am interested in modding my LP.

 

My statements were "by and large" about the usual Epiphone Vs. Gibson nonsense...your account and situation is again something different...you're talking about comparing the near-top of one brand's line against the near-bottom of another brand's line and that's a price point over-lap where of course the advantage could go to the more-expensive guitar in the lower-cost brand as opposed to the least expensive guitar in the higher-priced brand...there have been dozens of Gibsons I wouldn't leave the store with even in total darkness and there've been Epiphones that I thought were those "really good values" but that was based upon their functionality as a guitar with their price against the particular guitar...not how they compared to something else...

 

Mr.Nelson

[MarxBros]

 

My statements were "by and large" about the usual Epiphone Vs. Gibson nonsense...your account and situation is again something different...you're talking about comparing the near-top of one brand's line against the near-bottom of another brand's line and that's a price point over-lap where of course the advantage could go to the more-expensive guitar in the lower-cost brand as opposed to the least expensive guitar in the higher-priced brand...there have been dozens of Gibsons I wouldn't leave the store with even in total darkness and there've been Epiphones that I thought were those "really good values" but that was based upon their functionality as a guitar with their price against the particular guitar...not how they compared to something else...

 

Mr.Nelson

It would be nice if someday I picked up a copy of a Les Paul that "looked" just like one but only cost $700 and I could say to myself, this is it, it's the same guitar, they've nailed it for a fraction of the $$$.

 

 

It hasn't happened yet. Not even close, actually light years away.

 

It's a lot easier to make a budget strat than an LP, hell Gibson struggles to make a great LP even with the Historic line these days.

 

I wish sometimes I had never played some great LP's. I would be a lot more likely to accept the sub par offerings these days.

 

I should've kept the 54.

[HotRodVern]

After wanting a Les Paul for over 40 years (A childhood friend of mine had Les Paul Jr with matching amp and that is what i first played and learned on) I finally broke down an got an Epi Alpine White Studio this month. I had play other peoples gutars all of my life as I was a roadie for many years and also worked for a while in a recording studio. So I have played some of the best. I do have my own guitars a Epi S310 Strat and An Alvarez Yairi Signature that I got because Dickie Betts had an Alvarez.

 

When I first got it, I felt as though I had cheated myself because I hadn't got the Gibson. Then I started talking to Guitar shop owners as I was now looking for a new amp. The opinion I got from most of them is that the quality at Gibson now was not what it used to be. Infact most of the Epi's were just as good in their opinion. Then I went on line and started reading the reviews and forums on both Gibson and Epi Les Pauls. What I found was no matter which brand it was,most guitar players swapped out the pickups and made other adjustments to the guitar to make it what the thought it should be. So after learning all that I decided that I hadn't made such a bad choice after all and now I can have my Les Paul and a new amp for about the same money I would have spent on the Gibson. Oh the new amp? A Fender hot rod Deville.

[LHC- Jr.]

You've read someone's opinion that you get 90% of a Gibson's SOUND (read the article again) for 20% of the cost but you don't get 90% of the Gibson inherent quality of manufacture and quality of materials and component parts. That's where your logic fails you.

Mr.Nelson

 

You are correct: In the article in question it is stated that with a few mods one could get 90% of "a Gibson's SOUND" from an Epiphone. I'm really glad you emphasized the word "SOUND". Since we're talking about a musical instrument here and not a piece of jewelery or a hamburger, it would seem to me that the SOUND is actually the only thing that should matter. Most players judge a guitar by how it sounds. You disagree, and that's fine.

 

For me, however, that raises a question: Why is the SOUND secondary to you? What do you do with your guitars?

[Thermionik]

LHC, Jr - sound and playability. Your point is well made.

 

If it SOUNDS good and if it FEELS good and as a result it PLAYS good.....

 

.....it is still NO good unless it says BLINGO on the headstock and sells down the line for big bucks.

 

That's some people's take on it - me? I have a Sheraton II from '96 and I love it, can't put it down.

But like I said elsewhere, I am wrong and they are right - makes for an easier, quieter and less insulted life.

[Dave]

LHC' date=' Jr[/b'] - sound and playability. Your point is well made.

 

If it SOUNDS good and if it FEELS good and as a result it PLAYS good.....

 

.....it is still NO good unless it says BLINGO on the headstock and sells down the line for big bucks.

 

That's some people's take on it - me? I have a Sheraton II from '96 and I love it, can't put it down.

But like I said elsewhere, I am wrong and they are right - makes for an easier, quieter and less insulted life.

 

I'd love to see a BLIND test where the player was actually blindfolded and handed a series of guitars that had been properly set up. I'd like to see them played with and without an amp and tested through the same amp with the same settings. I think we might be surprised at the result of the ratings.

 

I have read of such a test using tube amps vs SS amps in a test where the amps were behind a partition and played by the same player using the same guitar. The reviewers rated each amp for tone and indicated whether they thought the amp was tube or SS. The result was that a SS amp rated 1st and the reviewers, in many cases, thought that the tubes were SS and vice versa.

[Marcelo1281734115]

My guess of what causes all these piss-contests is that people are comparing Epis to both old Gibson guitars (made by skilled craftsmen, somewhat hand-made) and today's Gibsons (CNC cut, mass produced with less-skilled to unskilled labor) in the same arguement. There are 2 different aguements here, Epis vs old Gibsons and Epis vs Newer Gibsons. In my opinion, ....who cares!, but below, I will give you some info that you might find usefull in selecting a guitar. That is what forums are for.......to provide info.

 

First, don't look down at Chinese goods. If you think that the Chinese can only make items to sell in dollar stores, you are wrong. We are talking about guitars here, a somewhat complex and custom item, not a dollar store trinket. The days of the skilled crafstman are gone, guitars are now mass produced, CNC-cut and put together by the cheapest labor you can get to keep costs down. The one difference I have experienced with China and their goods is that they can follow your specs to the letter, and will make you an excellent product if you ask them to. In China, a quality issue is resolved immediately, all they have to do is threaten to cut a worker's wage by 25%, then tadaa!, the quality problem is now gone. Also, China has had a substantial investment into infrastructure, I have seen factories that are new, stocked with the latest manufacturing equipment and so large that they make most plants in North America look like silly start-up businesses. Better facilities produce better products. By looking at the 3 horrible Gibsons I saw at the music store a few months ago, Gibson is building them with assembly-line methods just like the chinese, they probably did not do this in the old days, but they are doing this right now. So far, it looks to me that the Chinese are better at this game.

 

Second, China has no natural resources like....trees. They cleared-cut that country for farm land hundreds of years ago, so the wood they get is imported, probably from the same place Gibson gets their wood from. Sometimes people get into ridiculous arguements like the Gibson wood is better than normal wood, "Our trees are better than your trees" lol. If the wood type is the same (rosewood, maple, etc), it all comes down to the grade of wood you want to use, whether you want knots in it, stripes, etc.

 

Third, all that is left to discuss is the electronics and harware. Most of the folks here that own Epis and Gibsons upgrade these anyways, so there shouldn't be an arguement here. What hurts is that Gibson cost 3x to 5x more than Epi and you are still forced to change some these items, causing you to spend even more $$$. I personally hate those Gibson Deluxe tuners with the puke-green pegs, this is what you see on cheap guitar copies.

 

Still, I am not going to tell you that Epis are better than Gibsons, because we are still not talking about the same guitar, even though they may look the same. The guitars actually differ in specs and this makes the guitars different. But I can tell you this, if you go to China and ask them to build you a guitar with the same specs as a Gibson, the China plant WILL make you a product as good as an American Gibson. In fact, I am 100% sure that they will make you a product that is even better. The reason for this, is that the Chinese have lower costs, so they can tweak their manufacturing processes to get better quality. I have personally seen them slow down a process so that they get amazing levels of quality, In North America, we don't do this, we have a need to keep going fast to get the desired output but we only get a decent quality level by doing this.

 

I have been reading some other blogs where the folks out there now think of guitars like the 2008 Gibson Les Paul as nothing more than an "average to just-above-average" guitar. This would have been considered heresy some years ago as the Gibson LP was considered to be "perfection", but people are beginning to speak up and it takes a lot of balls to do this when Gibson has this huge reputation. Also, quality is going downhill too, we have all witnesed it. It is likely because they are making guitars differently than the old days they used to and it is beginning to show. Also, I have been reading blogs where some Strat gig-guitarists actually prefered a Mexican Strat with a few electronics upgrades over the American Strats, so it is not only Gibson that is disappointing the masses. Everyday, I read more and more that some people actually prefer guitars from companies like PRS and G&L over comparable older brands like Gibson and Fender. Gibson appears to be going about their business much like car-maker GM did in this past decade, and look what happened to them. If you piss off your customers and there is a lot of choice out there, you could be driven out of business.

[freak show]

Good post, Marcelo, I find the comparison to the fortunes of the American automobile industry especially well-chosen. Today, nobody brags about driving a new American car.

[duane v]

I have been reading some other blogs where the folks out there now think of guitars like the 2008 Gibson Les Paul as nothing more than an "average to just-above-average" guitar. This would have been considered heresy some years ago as the Gibson LP was considered to be "perfection"' date=' but people are beginning to speak up and it takes a lot of balls to do this when Gibson has this huge reputation. Also, quality is going downhill too, we have all witnesed it. It is likely because they are making guitars differently than the old days they used to and it is beginning to show. Also, I have been reading blogs where some Strat gig-guitarists actually prefered a Mexican Strat with a few electronics upgrades over the American Strats, so it is not only Gibson that is disappointing the masses. Everyday, I read more and more that some people actually prefer guitars from companies like PRS and G&L over comparable older brands like Gibson and Fender. Gibson appears to be going about their business much like car-maker GM did in this past decade, and look what happened to them. If you piss off your customers and there is a lot of choice out there, you could be driven out of business. [/quote']

 

Marcelo, I'm gonna have to politely disagree.... I've purchased two Gibsons over the last two months (Gibson Melody Maker and Junior), both I presumed built at some point in 2008. And I must say the Melody Maker after having it set-up and the frets dressed a little (total cost $50), that little guitar plays almost as well as my JL Rev. Sure the set-up out of the box could have been better, but I always take my guitar to my Luthier right after purchase anyhow. Probably the best $440 (including the set-up) on any new guitar I've purchased..... and it keeps my daughter away from my guitars. She really loves that little sucker.

 

To me my 2008 Gibson LP junior is the nicest playing Les Paul I've laid my hands on, and I've played all different brands and copies.... Granted it's very limited in regards to tone due to the one P-90. But adding another pup and a selector switch is just another $200 (including labor).

 

I'll admit, I have played some Epi Les Pauls that play better than my LP custom. But all I have to do is lose the flat wide frets (hate those things), and have new frets installed that are similar to the JL Rev, and change out the bridge pup for something that will give it a more darker tone. After doing this, I don't think there will be any guitar that could touch it in regards to overall performance and looks.... Now is a Gibby LP custom worth $3800??? Well that depends on the player.

 

I think people forget there are three types of guitar players:

A) The Hobbyist that plays for self enjoyment.

 

:) The professional that is required to do a certain amount of studio work. I've done my share, and I lost count on how many times the sound Engineer told me to unplug the Moser or the Charvel, and lay my rhythm tracks with the Les Paul..... Obviously there was a reason for that.

 

C) The connoisseur.... These are the guys/gals that you can blind fold and stuff ear plugs in their ears, and they will know exactly what guitar they are playing, and know all the little nuances that differentiate the brand....

 

But even with all that, it's all about what you like, and if somebody walks into your rehearsal studio and tells you your guitars are crap.... show em the door.

[wrighty3693]

Im just going to say this the Epiphone Les Paul Custom is better than a Gibson Les Paul Studio.

[TWANG]

 

You are correct: In the article in question it is stated that with a few mods one could get 90% of "a Gibson's SOUND" from an Epiphone. I'm really glad you emphasized the word "SOUND". Since we're talking about a musical instrument here and not a piece of jewelery or a hamburger, it would seem to me that the SOUND is actually the only thing that should matter. Most players judge a guitar by how it sounds. You disagree, and that's fine.

 

For me, however, that raises a question: Why is the SOUND secondary to you? What do you do with your guitars?

 

I have to disagree with the line about 'inherent blah blah blah..'

as a sheri owner for 17 years I can promise you the guitar has no problems with build quality.

all the quality components in the world wont make any difference IF the strength needed is there, and the

tone is there as well

and it obviously is.

I know, I play it everyday.

so it breaks down to.

will the materials do the job. yes they will.

can it play as nicely as it should. yes it can.

are the components satisfactory. yes. especially given that gibson owners often change theirs, as well.

does it sound right. yes it does.

does it cost an arm and a leg. no it doesn't.

will it have high collectible resale value in the future. nobody really knows, but probably not, and certainly not as much as gibson.

 

So. I suggest you buy what satisfys you.. and if you get a gibson, your great grandchildren will be able to proudly say

old what's his name left me

 

an expensive bit of history better off traded for a corvette.

 

and if you get an epiphone they'll say old what's his name left me

 

a really nice guitar I can STILL afford to actually play.

 

TWANG

 

ok. I admit I was being a smart aleck there at the end.

[LHC- Jr.]

I have to disagree with the line about 'inherent blah blah blah..'

as a sheri owner for 17 years I can promise you the guitar has no problems with build quality.

all the quality components in the world wont make any difference IF the strength needed is there' date=' and the

tone is there as well

and it obviously is.

I know, I play it everyday.

so it breaks down to.

will the materials do the job. yes they will.

can it play as nicely as it should. yes it can.

are the components satisfactory. yes. especially given that gibson owners often change theirs, as well.

does it sound right. yes it does.

does it cost an arm and a leg. no it doesn't.

will it have high collectible resale value in the future. nobody really knows, but probably not, and certainly not as much as gibson.

 

So. I suggest you buy what satisfys you.. and if you get a gibson, your great grandchildren will be able to proudly say

old what's his name left me

 

an expensive bit of history better off traded for a corvette.

 

and if you get an epiphone they'll say old what's his name left me

 

a really nice guitar I can STILL afford to actually play.

 

TWANG

 

ok. I admit I was being a smart aleck there at the end.[/quote']

 

Hey TWANG,

 

are you sure that your post was directed at something I said? I ask, because I don't disagree with you in any way, and I never wrote anything about "inherent blah blah".

 

Just curious...

[gibplayer]

 

My statements were "by and large" about the usual Epiphone Vs. Gibson nonsense...your account and situation is again something different...you're talking about comparing the near-top of one brand's line against the near-bottom of another brand's line and that's a price point over-lap where of course the advantage could go to the more-expensive guitar in the lower-cost brand as opposed to the least expensive guitar in the higher-priced brand...there have been dozens of Gibsons I wouldn't leave the store with even in total darkness and there've been Epiphones that I thought were those "really good values" but that was based upon their functionality as a guitar with their price against the particular guitar...not how they compared to something else...

 

Mr.Nelson

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnHksDFHTQI

[Marcelo1281734115]

My God, ....is Nelson finally beginning to see "the light". There must be a recession going on out there, people more than ever are looking for value right now. Money is tight, I guess that banks will not be giving out sub-prime loans to buy an expensive Gibson anymore, lol.

[Mr.Nelson]

My guess of what causes all these piss-contests is that people are comparing Epis to both old Gibson guitars (made by skilled craftsmen' date=' somewhat hand-made) and today's Gibsons (CNC cut, mass produced with less-skilled to unskilled labor) in the same arguement. There are 2 different aguements here, Epis vs old Gibsons and Epis vs Newer Gibsons. In my opinion, ....who cares!, but below, I will give you some info that you might find usefull in selecting a guitar. That is what forums are for.......to provide info.

 

First, don't look down at Chinese goods. If you think that the Chinese can only make items to sell in dollar stores, you are wrong. We are talking about guitars here, a somewhat complex and custom item, not a dollar store trinket. The days of the skilled crafstman are gone, guitars are now mass produced, CNC-cut and put together by the cheapest labor you can get to keep costs down. The one difference I have experienced with China and their goods is that they can follow your specs to the letter, and will make you an excellent product if you ask them to. In China, a quality issue is resolved immediately, all they have to do is threaten to cut a worker's wage by 25%, then tadaa!, the quality problem is now gone. Also, China has had a substantial investment into infrastructure, I have seen factories that are new, stocked with the latest manufacturing equipment and so large that they make most plants in North America look like silly start-up businesses. Better facilities produce better products. By looking at the 3 horrible Gibsons I saw at the music store a few months ago, Gibson is building them with assembly-line methods just like the chinese, they probably did not do this in the old days, but they are doing this right now. So far, it looks to me that the Chinese are better at this game.

 

Second, China has no natural resources like....trees. They cleared-cut that country for farm land hundreds of years ago, so the wood they get is imported, probably from the same place Gibson gets their wood from. Sometimes people get into ridiculous arguements like the Gibson wood is better than normal wood, "Our trees are better than your trees" lol. If the wood type is the same (rosewood, maple, etc), it all comes down to the grade of wood you want to use, whether you want knots in it, stripes, etc.

 

Third, all that is left to discuss is the electronics and harware. Most of the folks here that own Epis and Gibsons upgrade these anyways, so there shouldn't be an arguement here. What hurts is that Gibson cost 3x to 5x more than Epi and you are still forced to change some these items, causing you to spend even more $$$. I personally hate those Gibson Deluxe tuners with the puke-green pegs, this is what you see on cheap guitar copies.

 

Still, I am not going to tell you that Epis are better than Gibsons, because we are still not talking about the same guitar, even though they may look the same. The guitars actually differ in specs and this makes the guitars different. But I can tell you this, if you go to China and ask them to build you a guitar with the same specs as a Gibson, the China plant WILL make you a product as good as an American Gibson. In fact, I am 100% sure that they will make you a product that is even better. The reason for this, is that the Chinese have lower costs, so they can tweak their manufacturing processes to get better quality. I have personally seen them slow down a process so that they get amazing levels of quality, In North America, we don't do this, we have a need to keep going fast to get the desired output but we only get a decent quality level by doing this.

 

I have been reading some other blogs where the folks out there now think of guitars like the 2008 Gibson Les Paul as nothing more than an "average to just-above-average" guitar. This would have been considered heresy some years ago as the Gibson LP was considered to be "perfection", but people are beginning to speak up and it takes a lot of balls to do this when Gibson has this huge reputation. Also, quality is going downhill too, we have all witnesed it. It is likely because they are making guitars differently than the old days they used to and it is beginning to show. Also, I have been reading blogs where some Strat gig-guitarists actually prefered a Mexican Strat with a few electronics upgrades over the American Strats, so it is not only Gibson that is disappointing the masses. Everyday, I read more and more that some people actually prefer guitars from companies like PRS and G&L over comparable older brands like Gibson and Fender. Gibson appears to be going about their business much like car-maker GM did in this past decade, and look what happened to them. If you piss off your customers and there is a lot of choice out there, you could be driven out of business. [/quote']

 

LOL !!!...what a load of ridiculous bull feces designed to validate ignorant consumer choices and support delusion...I can no longer even take this stuff seriously..oh yeah, blogs-always a great source of accurate information...second only to maybe Wikipedia....enjoy your cheap Chinese crap and just watch as Gibson continues to make it cheaper and cheaper, cutting more and more from the quality to maintain the profit margin while ignorant Epi-Sheep follow along because owning an Epiphone allows them the Gibson on the cheap fantasy...and if Epiphone was owned by anyone else and making Gibson copies they wouldn't have half the phony credibility they have now...but don't let facts and accurate product assessments stand in the way of your fantasies...once upon a time Epiphone was an esteemed and reputable brand name...now it's a ruse used to peddle cheap Chinese crap to the ignorant who believe they're getting a bargain Gibson...I have tried to inform and have offered my experience and knowledge but some here have only sought to dismiss and diminish what I say...fine, but you're the idiots who are buying that crap and with no idea of what it actually is...you don't want to be informed and you don't want to know...fine, that doesn't change anything with me or the guitars I own...you can take a horse to the water...

 

Mr.Nelson

[Mr.Nelson]

My God' date=' ....is Nelson finally beginning to see "the light". There must be a recession going on out there, people more than ever are looking for value right now. Money is tight, I guess that banks will not be giving out sub-prime loans to buy an expensive Gibson anymore, lol.[/quote']

 

Pay attention and you might just learn something...just assume and you'll continue to look like the clueless dope you have thus-far. there's never any value in buying low quality anything...and people are buying (and you may not have noticed buy have been buying for like the past twenty five years) Gand L and PRS because they're high quality guitars just as the Heritage and domestic Hamer and many other makers and yes, Hamer and PRS both make crap Asian copies of their guitars...the real deals though are equal to anything Gibson is spitting out...and the Asian crap is just like the Epiphone stuff...

 

OK "Clueless dope" was uncalled for. I apologize....but you still come across as clueless..

 

I guess I should qualify that...I don't think the current Japanese and Korean-made Epiphone guitars are crap...actually they're pretty good values in their price niche but in no way or on any level do they compare with an actual Gibson..that's where the problem arises..when Epiphone owners staunchly defend their guitars as being on equal footing...the Chinese stuff? wouldn't have it as a gift...

 

Mr.Nelson

[lostindesert]

Mr.Nelson,......you don't like Chinese/Korean crap so what are you doing here?

I think a Gibson guitar is much better value then a Epiphone but we can't all afford a gibson.

Calling people idiots and other names do no good to help your arguments imo.

 

Peter

[TWANG]

 

Hey TWANG,

 

are you sure that your post was directed at something I said? I ask, because I don't disagree with you in any way, and I never wrote anything about "inherent blah blah".

 

Just curious...

 

yeah I blew it.. you were quoting the blah blah part.. sorry!

 

TWANG

[gibplayer]

You're next Marcelo. Another round of personal abuse has commenced. He's contradicting himself so much I can only think that the depot injection has started to wear off.

[Mr.Nelson]

Mr.Nelson' date='......you don't like Chinese/Korean crap so what are you doing here?

I think a gibson guitar is much better value then a Epiphone but we can't all afford a gibson.

Calling people idiots and other names do no good to help your arguments imo.

 

Peter[/quote']

 

Epiphone began making guitars in 1928 and have made a lot of guitars since then. Some of them extremely high quality guitars...some of them Chinese crap intended to dupe the ignorant. This site is inclusive of all the guitars Epiphone has ever made which includes those made in New York, Philadelphia, Kalamazoo, Japan, Nashville, Bozeman, Korea and China. The only ones I have issue with are the Chinese-made...and if someone is acting like an idiot...welllll, what else can I say?

Don't you understand that as long as you believe the hype and misinformation you'll be ripped off? Knowledgeable consumers force companies to market quality products. If everyone just believes that Epiphone is somehow anointed and doesn't look at these products objectively then Gibson is just going to keep making them cheaper and cheaper and that doesn't help the consumer. Doesn't anyone recognizes that since 1993 starting with the contract factories in Korea Gibson has sought cheaper and cheaper ways of making Epiphones and have you ever seen a price drop as their production costs lower? Is everyone going to cheer the great guitars Epiphone makes when China's standard of living rises enough to preclude cheap products for the world and Epiphone moves production to Ethiopia?..C-mon people, THINK!...geeez...

 

 

Mr.Nelson

[Mr.Nelson]

You're next Marcelo. Another round of personal abuse has commenced. He's contradicting himself so much I can only think that the depot injection has started to wear off.

 

 

wah wah wah wah wah...epiplayer...can you actually read? I didn't contradict myself, I clarified my statement so a mindless moron like yourself can grasp what I say and you, know..I think you're actually Duane...No, I was wrong again...I I won't abuse you because you do so well at abusing yourself... now, go wash your hands...you're disgusting...

 

Mr.Nelson

[generation zero]

 

I guess I should qualify that...I don't think the current Japanese and Korean-made Epiphone guitars are crap...actually they're pretty good values in their price niche but in no way or on any level do they compare with an actual Gibson..that's where the problem arises..when Epiphone owners staunchly defend their guitars as being on equal footing...the Chinese stuff? wouldn't have it as a gift...

 

Mr.Nelson

 

In general, I would agree with that. On average, the Chinese epis I have seen and owned have been sub-par in comparison to the Korean ones, and even my samick avion is nicer than most Chinese epis. I say most though because in a few rare cases, the Chinese factories accidentally pump out a superb specimen of a guitar. I am in no way arguing against your position, Nelson, but I am convinced that if you had the chance to play the Chinese epi LP standard that I own now, you would no longer state adamantly that all Chinese guitars are crap. This particular one is very well built, and IMO could hold it's own against any Gibson I have ever played, at least. Not that it is the norm, unfortunately, but it is proof that the Chinese are at least capable of building a fine instrument. Not that I am going to mail it to you for our little test, but if you are ever traveling through Virginia and want to stop by, there's an open invitation. I've always got cold beer and warm tube amps in the garage.