TWANG Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'm just finishing up a tele build for my friends church.. got an angel inlaid on the top.. and when the neck finish drys I'm installing a set of the new grover locking tuners with the knob ala sperzel. I've got a set of sperzels here, too, so I'll compare them as best I can and report back. note: though they have the same angled screw hole mount on the back.. they are not in the same place as the grovers, non locking, that I took off this neck. they cover the old holes though. they have a little more weight to them than the previous locking tuners.. they look waaay more sexy. I unpacked them and put them on another neck.. not on a body.. and they feel great. really smooth action. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashole Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 since you bring up grovers Twang, I was wondering... What is the actual difference between import grovers and US made? They look different in the shape of the button, but is there any significant difference other than that? Both seem to hold tune well for me, and I bend the hell out of the strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordy01 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'm looking for a set of locking tuners. I'm hoping that the Grovers will slide in the same holes of the Grover regular tuners I have now. Am I right, or is there a lil' more to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 TWANG, Good post. Everybody seems to be talking about them but you are the first member to post that he has bought a set. After you answer Gord's and GAShole's questions any other information would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 I used them on a tele.. which had grover minis in it. they slid right in. the only difference was the increased size on the back, allowing for that knob, so the screw hole was off, but covered the old one so no ugly dots left over. I'm seriously considereing ebaying the locking tuners on the lps studio and trying the 3X3 set. what the heck, someone may as well jump. I asked the supplier about fit when I got these, and they are all the same size according to him. That being said, I believe these come in mid size and regular..but I'm not sure if they are talking about button size, or if there's a difference in post size as well. So I'm going to ask more questions when I call in my own order. I didn't have to drill my headstock to go from the epis stock grovers to the locking tuners. the other epis I've had in didn't have grovers, so they didn't fit and drilling was required. The tele neck is dry so I can pop that on the guitar today or tomorrow and see how they are. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyushPresley Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 No offense but.... you look like a newbie but you aren't ..aren't you ?? Who are you Fubar ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordy01 Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 It's always so refreshing to get posts from FUBAR, and Marx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emetry Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 TWANG has never failed to impress me with his knowledge and ability to work around specific issues with guitars, either the full instrument or particular components. If you worked with him on a project, you'd have a different opinion. Anyway, nobody WANTS to drill holes in headstocks, but switching tuners sometimes requires a little modification unless you want to swap out the whole head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Go to a reputable store that knows half a$$ what its talking about and has a no hassle return policy before you buy anything from some half a$$ wanna be expert on line and get something that isn't going to work for you.......:) Sounds like the voice of experience. What did you get that did not work out? Where did you get it from? Ayush, Fubar can be an anagram for Bufar. bufar - Diccionario Español en linea ... bufar . intr. Resoplar un animal irritado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Any guitar "tech" that talks about drilling a headstock should not touch a guitar. You are a clueless hack.:) As long as the customer knows, and has given advanced approval for the drilling, I see nothing wrong with it. It's not like he's drilling a real '59 LP, or real collectible Tele. The only drawback is there would be hell to be paid in an attempt to return it to stock, but it could be done. I used to do what would be considered "unconventional custom work" on customers guns when I was a "smith", re'shaping stocks,custom trigger work, 3D hand carvings on buttstocks, (my micro chisels have 0.5mm cutting surfaces,for extremely fine detail). If the customer WANTS it, and it doesn't degrade the specimen, go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 The only drawback is there would be hell to be paid in an attempt to return it to stock' date=' ![/quote']No, the drawback is you can split the headstock. If you need to open up the holes a tapered reamer is the correct way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Thank you Mr. Know it All. And the fact that I've used a drill bit on at least twenty guitars with no problems proves you are perfectly correct. I use the drill press, as a matter of fact. I build a little stand that attaches to the base, so the neck is held firm no matter what type it is, no matter what the angle of the headstock. Then I clamp it in. Then I adjust the drill bit to go as far as it needs to go. I don't chip around the holes. I've never cracked a neck. And the tuners all fit in perfectly. But I'm ever so grateful for the knowledge that you picked up on a website somewhere. And of course, as we all know, there's only ONE way to do everything so I must be completely wrong, and all my tuner drilling was just sheer luck. Why, I bet the next one explodes in my face!! I shall be sure and contact you about everything I do from now on. TWANG split the headstock. bwahahahahahaaaaa bwahahahhaaaa!!! ooops sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Thank you Mr. Know it All.And the fact that I've used a drill bit on at least twenty guitars with no problems proves you are perfectly correct. I use the drill press, as a matter of fact. I build a little stand that attaches to the base, so the neck is held firm no matter what type it is, no matter what the angle of the headstock. Then I clamp it in. Then I adjust the drill bit to go as far as it needs to go. I don't chip around the holes. I've never cracked a neck. And the tuners all fit in perfectly. But I'm ever so grateful for the knowledge that you picked up on a website somewhere. And of course, as we all know, there's only ONE way to do everything so I must be completely wrong, and all my tuner drilling was just sheer luck. Why, I bet the next one explodes in my face!! I shall be sure and contact you about everything I do from now on. TWANG split the headstock. bwahahahahahaaaaa bwahahahhaaaa!!! ooops sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Ok, now that we have the banter over with, let's discuss the tuners. I have a set of the regular new locking grovers on my LP. The shaft size is same as regular locking grovers and Planet waves and the screw holes are in the same position. they are not as heavy as the PW's but then they don't cut the string either. I have a set of Mini rotomatic lockers on my Ibanez semi-hollow so I ordered a set of the new Grover locking mini's assuming they wouild fit as they have the offset screw holes too. The srew holes aren't the same and as I'm not disatisfied with the rotomatics I have on the semi I sent them back. I tried them on several guitars and went over to a friends house who has a collection and dam if we can figure what guitars the minis fit (we are talking the backside screw holes in case we lost you). The regulars are nice though and not much heavier than regular Grovers and a lot lighter than the Planet Waves. I'd give them a thumbs up anyway, back to the banter now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 With a tapered reamer, after going from the front, AND the back (as would be necessary) you'll end up with a tight center, and slop on both sides.......is this what you'd want? a SHARP bit, at a good high speed, won't damage any headstock, unless its made of pressedboard. OR, my personal choice, would be to use my grandfathers 1929 model Craftsman hand(non electric) drill, with the same NEW sharp bit ,locked into an adjustable press stand with the headstock being gently gripped by a double adjusting, locking, compound vice............. But, thats just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claydots Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 since you bring up grovers Twang' date=' I was wondering... What is the actual difference between import grovers and US made? They look different in the shape of the button, but is there any significant difference other than that? Both seem to hold tune well for me, and I bend the hell out of the strings.[/quote'] The difference is in the gear ratio.... Import are 14:1 and Grovers you find on a Gibson are 18:1 ratio. In other words, it takes more turns to complete one revolution of the peg with a Gibson Grover than an Epi Grover. 18:1 will hold better. Hope that explains it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_edward Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Why does every post turn into a kiddy argument around here, It's too bad as not long ago there were no kids with an axe to grind and useful info was plentiful. Tapered reamer, that's a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 First off the guitars are my own.. and the ones I build. the holes are perfectly aligned, and straight.. the wood is smooth, no chips around the edges. The holes for tuner shafts at the back, do not go all the way through. The shafts are the same size, from top to bottom. A drill bit cuts the hole exactly to the size required. The shaft fits in very tightly. It stops near where the bushing comes in, as it should. the tuners fit perfectly. the wood is not only not harmed, it's shaped exactly right. Benders method is just a variation of my own. and would work perfectly. No customer has ever complained. No headstock has ever cracked. No tuner has ever been misaligned, or slipped or caused any other problem. I have NO IDEA why anyone would use a reamer for this job when a drill press, I have two, table model and floor standing, does the job exactly as required. Also, please explain why it would take more time? I think you're full of it, and have never done this job yourself. You're like the surgeon who graduated online. I do understand that you have determined to take exception to every post I make, knowing that so many people think you're a jerk already, you seem to count on at least doing me some damage in the process. This is know as dragging someone down to your level. bwahahahahaaa bwahhaaaahahhaaa! Hiram. Interesting. I noticed the screw holes on these six in line tuners were, compared to previous mini grovers that were mounted, just outside the minis holes. I don't know why anyone would care, since they cover the old holes, but it's true they don't match. I haven't tried the planet waves. Last I looked they cost more. I'm happy with Grovers quality and performance. I thought Sperzels were a tad pricey, but I liked the set I have tried out. I'm going to try the 3X3 grover lockers in the new model.. and compare them to the old style on my lp. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Much as I hate to ever agree with MarxBros.... If I were attempting this job, I would probably use a tapered-reamer bit. Or at least start widening the hole using the tapered reamer, and then use a sharp drill bit to finish the work. However, I am not an experienced tech or luthier, just an occasional hobbyist when it comes to working on my own guitars. And any guitar I was fond of or valuable, I would never trust to my own wood-working skills(!) If TWANG can report 20+ experiences of doing the job successfully his way, then I'm prepared to believe that he knows exactly what he's doing. Either way, what he says is quite correct. You'd need a drill press to do this job accurately and cleanly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 There's just no way I'm going to change how I do this when it works out perfectly every time. Supposedly, on the off chance I'll crack the wood.. which I've never even come close to.. I should start using a different tool, suggested by someone who's never done it himself either way. backed up only by a guy who's had to change his handle in here three times. I think I've made my point. The tuners fit. The neck is fine. No wood is or has ever cracked. As to spending time on things.. that makes me laugh my butt off. I could show you countless emails proving that people who, for example, buy guards from me, understand and appreciate the amount of time I spend not only in having a full understanding, but of the amount of time I spend making their guard. It's one of the most common compliments I get. But I don't care about that.. this isn't for sales. Though you've no idea how much good you've done me in that area! For the headstocks, no reamer for me, drill press, neck jig, sharp bit, experience. I'll stick with what I know. you guys.. stick with your jr. high stuff.. tick off the whole forum.. this is really my last response to either of you. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 Why does every post turn into a kiddy argument around here' date=' It's too bad as not long ago there were no kids with an axe to grind and useful info was plentiful. Tapered reamer, that's a good one.[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 There's just no way I'm going to change how I do this when it works out perfectly every time. Supposedly' date=' on the off chance I'll crack the wood.. which I've never even come close to.. I should start using a different tool, suggested by someone who's never done it himself either way. backed up only by a guy who's had to change his handle in here three times. I think I've made my point. The tuners fit. The neck is fine. No wood is or has ever cracked. As to spending time on things.. that makes me laugh my butt off. I could show you countless emails proving that people who, for example, buy guards from me, understand and appreciate the amount of time I spend not only in having a full understanding, but of the amount of time I spend making their guard. It's one of the most common compliments I get. But I don't care about that.. this isn't for sales. Though you've no idea how much good you've done me in that area! For the headstocks, no reamer for me, drill press, neck jig, sharp bit, experience. I'll stick with what I know. you guys.. stick with your jr. high stuff.. tick off the whole forum.. this is really my last response to either of you. TWANG[/quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashole Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 The difference is in the gear ratio.... Import are 14:1 and Grovers you find on a Gibson are 18:1 ratio. In other words' date=' it takes more turns to complete one revolution of the peg with a Gibson Grover than an Epi Grover. 18:1 will hold better. Hope that explains it..[/quote'] Cool-thanks, that explains it exactly. Definitely worth replacing then, as opportunity presents itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Dan can do what he wants. To assume it's the only way that works is stupid. No customer has ever had any guitar ruined by me. Yer silly. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 PS: http://www.tkinstruments.com/id94.htm http://www.tkinstruments.com/id94.htm#drilling_your_own_post_holes_for_guitar http://en.allexperts.com/q/Guitar-General-649/gear-ratio-tuners-1.htm http://www.lmii.com/carttwo/HeadSlotJig.htm http://www.musicianshotline.com/archive/monthly/mean_gene/06_05.htm http://www.higgydude.com/tuners/63-tele-tuners.asp Expert: Bill Ruxton - 11/10/2004 -------- Luthiers Mercantile International 1-800-477-4437 HEADSTOCK SLOTTING JIG -------- Fine Tuned Instruments LLC home of Gene Baker built instruments via Musicians Hotline ---------- and of course Higgy Dude ---------- Anyone can selectively google any opinion they want when they don't know thier fubar from a nelson in the ground but want to give someone else marx. You can figure out, without googling, exactly what meaning I substituted your names for, even though it will probably take you a month. You really should have taken the time to find this out on your own instead of once again making a complete casinogino of yourself. The only problem is you actually started to get support for your stupidity..and from people who also might have shown the good sense to look around. And of course, you count on that.. people coming to conclusions or forming opinions without making any effort to learn anything at all. And of course, that's why you're here. To bully people and strut and pose, spreading your ignorant stink from ceiling to floor. As for Dan. Some twenty years ago or better I spoke with him via mail when he was hiring an assistant. Had a band at the time and never followed it up. Wish I had. Probably be doing it his way. I have nothing but the utmost respect for him. and for a LOT of other luthiers, too. I suggest you do the same. TWANG Please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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