Newbie looking at Epi's - Casino or Wildkat?

[RGuy]

Hi, I've recently switched from playing bass in a hard rock band to playing my first love of guitar in a americana/roots rock band (think Tom Petty, Drive-by Truckers, Ben Harper, Kings of Leon, etc.) - I'm currently playing a late 90s standard Tele through a late 90s Ampeg Jet Reissue. I've been looking at getting another guitar as the Tele is a bit twangy for certain songs and I need something a little smoother. I have pretty much narrowed it down to the Casino and Wildkat. I play a lot of clean parts but also need to use light to moderate overdrive especially if I'm doing a lead.

 

Likes/Dislikes on the Wildkat - Nice finish, great sound, Grover tuners, the one I played was great as far as setup, finish, playability, etc. Also like the kind of Gretsch vibe it has with the headstock, master volume, etc. Didn't like the tuning stability with the bigsby (this is my main concern with this)

 

Likes/Dislikes on the Casino - Light, great sound, has a cool vintage look, has nice neck playability. Feel like it fits the kind of music I play very well. Not sure about the quality of the tuners, also kind of scared about feedback if I use it in conjunction with overdrive.

 

Any thoughts from owners from both out there? Also, how's the quality on the newer MIC stuff? My main bass in the afforementioned rock band is a MIK Goth T-bird and that thing plays better than my Gibson LP Bass. The Wildkat I played was made in Indonesia but I believe new production is MIC. The Casino was MIC and definitely had some finish issues - the f-hole was cut badly and there were some binding issues. For $600 or whatever they're going for I expect a little better than that. Thanks!

[Swoop]

As someone who just bought a Casino, let me tell you this. I love it, and I cannot put it down. It is a made in China example and it is faultless, the finish is perfect, and there are no issues with the binding anywhere. The colour is nice and rich, and the grain seems to look different every time I look at it, and depending on the time of day, and the angle the sun is coming in through my windows. Sometimes the grain really stands out, and sometimes it's subtle. Either way it looks fantastic. You might just have to look around a little for a nice example.

 

As for the sound, you've played one and obviously like it. They do sound fantastic, beautiful clear, clean tone. And they do sound great with a bit of distortion too. For me, I neve go past 2/3 of the way up with the gain control, but I have the drive channel volume right up, and just modulate the overall sound coming out of the amp with the master control, so I can still get that nice overdriven tone without annoying my neighbours. Sounds like you're in a band and might play a few gigs. I really don't think you'll have much of an issue with feedback. It really does depend how much you want to drive it, but with the Casino, I don't think you ever want to go more than 2/3 o the way up on your gain control. It's just not that kind of guitar. And by the sounds of the music you like, an excessive amount of overdrive isn't necessary. And you've said anyway that you use light to moderate overdrive. Perfect.

 

As for the tuners, I have no problem with their quality. They seem to hold their tune well enough, and operate fairly smoothly. Of course, not as smooth as Grovers, but then hardly anything is as smooth as Grovers. If you really wanted to, you could swap the tunes out for something better, at not a lot of cost. A set of Grovers isn't overly expensive from StewMac, nor is a set of Kluson style Grovers.

 

The Wildkat being a semi hollow wouldn't be susceptible to feedback like the Casino, and of course it has P90s like the Casino. Call me biased, but Casino all the way!

[AlanH]

I can only speak for my MIK Wildkat.

 

I would say, versatility wise, the Wildkat wins hands down because of the separate master volume and the block preventing feedback.

 

Admittedly, there is a bit of binding going on at the nut with the 'usual suspect' G string but fresh strings and graphite generally sort this out. I don't really use the Bigbsy much but a bit of light vibrato (which is how it should be used anyway) doesn't cause me any tuning problems. Anyway, I like the Bigsby turned back out of the way because it makes the bridge look really cool. If the worse came to the worse you could always get a new nut and a roller bridge to sort out any tuning problems. That said, my Wildkat has better tuning stability than my Gibson SG faded.

 

As for quality control, both should have equal chance of suffering from a problem if you're getting a MIC version. If you try before you buy, then you can spot these problems anyway.

 

Here's a Wildkat review for you:

http://topguitars.info/guitars/view/23/96/default.html

 

Alan

[Gordy01]

I've owned an ES 335 and I did like it, but I can't seem to shake the GAS I have for the Wildkat.

To me it seems like a great idea. Not too big, semi hollow, P-90's.

The Bigsby I could live without, but I don't think it would keep me from buying one.

I recently looked at one and the only flaw I could find was that the wiring was

just hanging inside the opening, clearly visible through the F-hole.

For 659 bucks, I think it could have been done better.

Some might say that this is a small issue, and they're probably right, but working inside

a semi is a little tougher than some think too.

[Parabar]

I own both a Wildkat and Casino, and I love 'em both, for different reasons. Mine are both Korean made (Peerless Casino, Samick Wildkat).

 

For your application, I think the Casino would provide the biggest contrast to your Tele --- between the two of them you could cover a LOT of ground. The tone of the Wildkat is somewhere between the two. But more importantly, I think you anwered your own question when you said:

Feel like it fits the kind of music I play very well.

That's one of THE most important considerations when buying a guitar. Everything else is modifiable. If you decide you're not happy with the tuners on the Casino, you can upgrade (mine are still stock --- they're not as smooth as the Grovers on the Wildkat, but they stay in tune, so if it ain't broke ...)

 

To me the Casino is more versatile. It can go from warm jazzy tones to snarling rock to rockabilly twang, along with many other colors. The Wildkat I tend to use for a more limited range of sounds, but it does those very well.

[AS90]

How about a Sheraton?

[RGuy]

Thanks for all the replies. I have to say that after reading everyone's comments that I am leaning more towards the Casino. Swoop I looked at your post with pics of your new one and it is pretty magnificent looking. Quick Question on that - It kind of looked like the Volume/Tone controls had the little metal rings underneath the knobs that let you know where the knob is set at? Is this right? The MIC one I played the other night didn't have these. Also is the "E" on the pickguard the raised sticker kind or is it actually silk-screened? I'm wondering if the newer MIC models have these and maybe have a little better QC going on. Also as far as the Sheraton goes I would like to try one before I make my final decision. I played an Elitist version at the same shop the other night and was very underwhelmed by the sound of the mini-humbuckers. They were very muddy for my tastes (Those P90s on the Casino & Wildkat sound sooo good). I'm going to go to a few other shops to see if I can play a Sheraton II but like I said I think the Casino might be in my future very soon.

[bloozeguy]

Thanks for all the replies. I have to say that after reading everyone's comments that I am leaning more towards the Casino. Swoop I looked at your post with pics of your new one and it is pretty magnificent looking. Quick Question on that - It kind of looked like the Volume/Tone controls had the little metal rings underneath the knobs that let you know where the knob is set at? Is this right? The MIC one I played the other night didn't have these. Also is the "E" on the pickguard the raised sticker kind or is it actually silk-screened? I'm wondering if the newer MIC models have these and maybe have a little better QC going on. Also as far as the Sheraton goes I would like to try one before I make my final decision. I played an Elitist version at the same shop the other night and was very underwhelmed by the sound of the mini-humbuckers. They were very muddy for my tastes (Those P90s on the Casino & Wildkat sound sooo good). I'm going to go to a few other shops to see if I can play a Sheraton II but like I said I think the Casino might be in my future very soon.

Pardon me for attempting to complicate your life further, but since you are obviously a P90 fan, have you at all considered the special run Riviera with the 3 P90s? Or for the matter, the P93 Riv?

[RGuy]

Hadn't thought of that one...I'll have to take a closer look. Anyone play either of those?

[Swoop]

Hi mate. yes, my casino has pointer washers fitted to the pot shafts/beneath the contrl knobs. It's the only guitar I own that came with them fitted, I had to put them on the rest, with the exception of my strat of course, that would just look weird. Not really a make or break thing for me though. And indeed the 'E' logo is a raised plastic piece that sticks to the pickguard. I can't explain why the one you played doesn't have either of those things. The 'E' logo does commonly fall off, but as for the pointers, I don't know.

 

In any case, I really don't think the MIC thing should put you off a Casino, or any guitar for that matter. It simply means you might have to try bfore you buy, and give the guitars a close and thorough inspection to ensure it's a good'un.

 

There are a few folks around here whou own the P93 Riviera, so hopefllu they can fill you in on it. I still think the Casino sounds ideal for what you described, but of course I am somewhat biased. The P93 Riviera sure is a hell of a guitar, 3 P90s and a Bigsby gives you plenty to play with. Whatever you decide, be sure to post pictures, etc.

 

Cheers for the comments about my Casino too!

[Guest icantbuyafender]

the Riviera is amazing and can handle gain like a CHAMP!

[Guest]

I'm a Wildkat fan and I've never really been sold on the Casino. On the plus side the Casino has a great neck feel but it's nearly twice the price of a Wildkat, doesn't look as cool and is kinda too big for me. However that's all fairly subjective stuff and while I wouldn't be caught dead with a big, clunky "Beatle" guitar on a stage, to other people that's a positive thing. These things are very personal.

 

I think sonically it depends on how much smooth you wanna get. The Casino will be smoother than the Kat (which is a rockabilly instrument) but will also feed back (slightly) more. They both howl a fair bit anyway though, just don't go too overdrive-crazy and you'll be fine. Most Wildkats and Casinos I've encountered are either MIK and MIC and I've failed to detect any meaningful differences between an MIC and MIK Wildkat or Casino. Both should still be reasonably available if you shop around, there's plenty of MIK Casinos hanging on the racks in my local shops.

[JohnnyKat]

The Alleykat has the same volumn/tone setup as the Wildkat but no Bigbsy. But they have humbucker pickups.

[JefferySmith]

My $.02 would be (a) the Sheraton, or ( the Riviera with 3 P90's.

[charlie brown]

I don't own a Wildkat, so I can't comment on it. I do own a P-93LE Riviera, and a AIUSA Sheraton (with mini-humbuckers). They are BOTH

Wonderful guitars, with different tonal possibilities, and either would work, for your favorite music. The P-93LE Riviera can cover "Gretsch"

like tones, with the right settings, very well. And, of course, the growl and/or clean, rounded "spank," that a P-90 is noted for. As far as

"tuners/machine heads,"...those can be easily modified, to whatever your preferences are. Add a roller bridge, and a good "nut," and

the Bigsby will be no problem, as long as you don't try to "Dive Bomb," with it. It wasn't designed for that...but just to add a "shimmer."

Anyway...just my 2-cent's worth...

 

CB

[JefferySmith]

I don't own a Wildkat' date=' so I can't comment on it. I do own a P-93LE Riviera, and a AIUSA Sheraton (with mini-humbuckers). They are BOTH

Wonderful guitars, with different tonal possibilities, and either would work, for your favorite music. The P-93LE Riviera can cover "Gretsch"

like tones, with the right settings, very well. And, of course, the growl and/or clean, rounded "spank," that a P-90 is noted for. As far as

"tuners/machine heads,"...those can be easily modified, to whatever your preferences are. Add a roller bridge, and a good "nut," and

the Bigsby will be no problem, as long as you don't try to "Dive Bomb," with it. It wasn't designed for that...but just to add a "shimmer."

Anyway...just my 2-cent's worth...

 

CB[/quote']

Now that you have dropped the Gretsch word into a P-93LE Riviera sentence, my initial impression of the Riviera was that it was a nice substitute for a Gretsch Tennesseean, and that if they made it with just one cutaway, Gretsch would probably be p***ed at the similarity between the two. Add two painted f-holes and we are talkin' lawsuit.

[Guest]

The Alleykat has the same volumn/tone setup as the Wildkat but no Bigbsy. But they have humbucker pickups.

 

He's not asking about the Alleykat though.

 

Or about Rivieras, Sheratons or your mum.

 

The title of the thread is "Casino or Wildkat?".

 

Damn it's hard to keep you crazy gear-heads on topic... :D/

[epicac]

What it's worth...

 

Like the neck first, then the sound (you can't CHANGE the neck) and keep an eye on the price. I'd say wildkat. Or a cheap dot and swap p'ups. Here's why...

 

I started out with a samick sheraton II. bought without needing to plug it in. loved it. eventually the gold went bad. so i swapped out for chrome.

 

The stock HBs are smooth and sweet, but I mod everything anyway. so now it is wired with phatcats (duncan HB sized p-90's), It has a pull pot for series and a pull pot for phase switching. It is unreal the different sounds from 2 single coils in this array.

 

Yeah, i made a clear pickguard too.

 

That said, if i knew then I'd have looked at the Nick Valensi p-94 Riviera or the Wildkat.

 

My opinion, the casino is kinda overpriced because of the classic lennon/harrison thing. Too much of an icon built into a guitar turns me off.

 

Example, as much as I love the Hook, I couldn't buy the epi sheraton that said "boogieman" on the neck. But I'll go to great lengths to get those riffs!

 

epicac