deflepfan Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 " lovelingly" (is that a correct word?) Yes, but spelled lovingly. Sorry, was the question retorical? Sheila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yes' date=' but spelled lovingly. Sorry, was the question retorical?Sheila[/quote'] Thnaks..spelling is a prolbem sometimes with my dys..dis lex ia .. What was what rhetorical question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamm7215 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 The IBJL's are made at the Gibson QingDao factory in China. There may be more quality variations because of the factory environment but these folks make guitars every day like they do anywhere else with Gibson machinery. There's a post on this site about a tour of the QingDao factory or you can google it. I would say the OP's q/c issues are NOT common on the IBJL's and if he ordered another it's very likely it would be fine. I'm surprised this actually made it past the Q/C. You usually see these sent back and refurbed at the factory and sold to secondary dealers as 2nds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbbysB4Epis Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I had the same 100% Inspected and setup by No. 7 sticker on my Dot Studio. It would not tune tune properly. Even with the saddles turned angled side to the nut the "G" string saddle ran out of travel. The G string was always sharp at the twelfth fret. I replaced the bridge to fix that problem. So much for Quality Control Criteria and No. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 by the time you replace the Chinese electronics in it' date=' re-wire it, etc.(you KNOW deep inside that this is all coming) you could have added a little $ to that, and gotten a really nice used Elitist.[/quote']Actually the electronics are quite nice - Gibson designed PUPs, CTS pots & Switchcraft selector switch. Wire is braided shield type and well hidden, not visible through the f-holes like on my Riviera P93. That's the part that makes it worth the difference over the standard $599 Casino, but then I didn't pay $1k either. If I had it would already be back at MF. Just voted send it back' date=' I have never bought a "new" guitar in my life every one has been used and you expect the odd thing that pi***s you off. If I had bought that guitar and it came and did not give me that "brand spanking new, pristine feeling" I would have to send it back.[/quote'] Yeah, I'm not in the habit of buying new guitars either, but you can't find one of these at the local dealers, and even if you did it would no doubt be nicked up. In any case, the guitar is staring to grow on me, I spent some time with it again last night and it sounds pretty good. Still on the fence though, thanks for voting and all the comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Well the sticker does say "Handcrafted in China"..LOL! Ya, sure, they have highly paid "expert luthiers" at the Chinese factory that produces these to " lovelingly" (is that a correct word?) craft on these "works of art" signature series and bestow upon them the finest materials, workmanship and skills in the art and craft of the worlds finest luthiers. I got a MIC Black and Decker battery operated drill that won't hold drill bits tight..the chuck is made of plastic! Don't care if it was made in Ulan Bator by a group of one armed shepherds, it has Epiphone stamped on it (head office, are responsible for standards, profit margins and what they give their customers)........... and if you say "aw shucks" it was only 760 bucks, what the hell, if they have no quality control standards. Then you are doing yourself and future buyers a disservice. Companies will give the customer poor goods "if" they accept them....companies respond to poor sales and customer dissatisfaction. It is not a rocket ship, its a effing 700 something dollar guitar, new, it is not difficult with decent mass production techniques to produce a decent guitar, leave luthiers out of this, this is a mass produced guitar, but it should be better than that. There are comparable priced other brand guitars with much higher finish standards than that. The truth is they are cutting corners to maximise profits and you are, as customers, accepting that....OK keep it....:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 If it was made in Ulan Bator by one-armed sheep herders, the QC probably would be better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigournius Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 If you want perfection you should have been born in the fifties when wood was more abundant. The minor warts on the grain are character marks and will help you identify it in case it has an accident. I think it is a lovely instrument for the price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarpBoy Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Well the sticker does say "Handcrafted in China"..LOL! Ya' date=' sure, they have highly paid "expert luthiers" at the Chinese factory that produces these to " lovelingly" (is that a correct word?) craft on these "works of art" signature series and bestow upon them the finest materials, workmanship and skills in the art and craft of the worlds finest luthiers. I got a MIC Black and Decker battery operated drill that won't hold drill bits tight..the chuck is made of plastic! [/quote'] I'm guessing that the chuck is plastic because head office, in the US, told them to make it that way. I doubt they decided to do that themselves. Just sayin'... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altair Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I missed the poll option "Send it to Altair"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 LOL The minor warts on the grain are character marks and will help you identify it in case it has an accident. Maybe Epiphone should think of using that one, as a sales pitch, when competing in the $700-$800 guitar market.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I didn't realize the electronics were quality fare.............that sort of changes things. I fully understand what you're going thru, When my '56 GT (Chinese) came in, I actually had it re-boxed and ready to send back, until I decided to fix what was wrong w/it myself.(b/c at the time, they were supposedly "discontinued") The neck was so badly out of adjustment that it took 2 seperate adjustments, letting it sit overnight to "settle in" between the adjustments, to get it straight. The action was a mile high, because it had 2 frets that were high on one end, and the intonation wasn't even close. The neck p'up wasn't even screwed into the body wood and the input jack was bad right out of the box. The fretboard also had blonde stripes diagonally across it where the "rosewood" didn't/wouldn't accept the factory stain. It was without a doubt the WORST guitar i've ever seen, or heard of, as far as "slipping" through QC. I started working on it.......one issue at a time.......and 2 full days later, it was fine, for a total extra cost of $1.99 for the input jack, and now i've got a '56GT that has the most hair raising RAW tone of about any guitar I own. Glad I kept it! I also re-boxed an Agile AL-3000 HSBF that arrived with a seperating neck heel, cracked dovetail socket, and so little finish that the top was actually white, with honey colored stripes. I contacted Kurt @ Rondo........sent it back, and a week later the replacement came.......and it was without flaw of any kind, properly set up, neck was rail straight, and the action absolutely perfect, no cracks, seperations, or thin finish.........it was beautiful, and needed only a simple string change & tuning. I'm still playing it as it was setup @ the factory, and it's still perfect. Glad I sent it back! What does all this mean? It means that you need to make the decision if the imperfections bother you enough to keep you from enjoying your new guitar........and then take the appropriate action. Best wishes to you..........let us know what you decide to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Don't care if it was made in Ulan Bator by a group of one armed shepherds' date=' it has Epiphone stamped on it (head office, are responsible for standards, profit margins and what they give their customers) and if you say "aw shucks" it was only 760 bucks, what the hell, if they have no quality control standards. [/quote'] Would one armed shepards be able to hand craft these?...never mind..I guess as long as the "craftsman" has an arm...it can still be considered "hand crafted"..even if that hand is operating a machine to punch out the back and top out of plywood bought at yard sale prices from Ulan Bator..outer Mongolia. LOL! Then you are doing yourself and future buyers a disservice. Companies will give the customer poor goods "if" they accept them....companies respond to poor sales and customer dissatisfaction. Well I agree totally with you there Joe. Even as regular production Casino, it barely passes. If this was mine, as a signature series, John Lennon Casino, I would be expecting a nicer grain (even if it is made of plywood) and a better setup. Yes, any guitar played long enough will "grow on you", but the guitar buying public should have the last word. It is not a rocket ship, its a effing 700 something dollar guitar, new, it is not difficult with decent mass production techniques to produce a decent guitar, leave luthiers out of this, this is a mass produced guitar, but it should be better than that. ..well I was using the term "luthiers" very loosely and in a joking manner, based on the "hand crafted sticker"... What does that mean? Gibson were and probably still are handcrafted to some extent, so were Epiphones at one time...but these were still made in a production line factory..not individually in a custom shop..so that particular sticker is meaningless..why bother to put it on? There are comparable priced other brand guitars with much higher finish standards than that. The truth is they are cutting corners to maximise profits and you are, as customers, accepting that....OK keep it....:-) Yes but they are not Epiphones and the famous inspired Casino...so if that matters then what's the point of even looking at others? Gibson made Epiphones, even in my day, didn't always have a nice grain on SOME of their models. I remember my hand carved top Epi Triumph sunburst with a spruce top..nice workmanship throughout, but the back had a flat sawn maple with very little grain and a dark walnut stain to hide it. That is why they started to use that shading scheme..sunburst and dark back...to hide imperfections in the tops and backs. If you want a premium wood AAA or better, you have to pay premium prices..like the Elitists in the Epiphone line, IMO. That's all I'm going to say on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hi Dan Ulan Bator..outer Mongolia. LOL! My choice of Outer Mongolia within my rhetoric, was to highlight, USA to Japan to Korea to Indonesia to China......where next in search for cheap labour (or Skilled Craftsmen...:-) whichever terminology you want to put on your sticker...LOL My points are an attack on maximising profits at the expense of quality. There is some guy sitting in an office somewhere who got a fat rise, for cutting costs and cutting corners on quality. I still reckon customer feedback is a good thing....How many people on this forum are seeking older Epiphones because the newer models are criticised so much. Maybe we should start a petition on this forum, demanding better QC and materials for the buck. We all know by what we are reading on this forum that they could be better, and if they did improve in these areas they would still make a profit. These are symptoms of corporate greed, down with with corporate greed, Revolution now.........Pick up your axes and storm the barricades.......just joking, but I think you get my drift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 If you want perfection you should have been born in the fifties when wood was more abundant. Um' date=' I was born in the 50's. 1955 to be exact. But I had a hard time fretting diminished chords for the first few years and the arena moves were a *****. The minor warts on the grain are character marks and will help you identify it in case it has an accident.I think it is a lovely instrument for the price! I'm starting to agree. Played it for a good long time yesterday with a mate and I'm getting very fond of it. And the warts are bothering me less and less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrds1965 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 This is why I will never buy another guitar on-line again. As far as your wood comment the Casino is Plywood as it nearly every other Gibson/Epiphone HB so they should use a nice laminate for the top. Bottom line if you were in a music store like GC and they had several of the Inspired by Lennon's hanging on the wall would you have bought that one or picked on of the others? Unless that guitar had some magic tone that you could tell the others did not and was worth fixing the intonation, setup and deal with the knot on the top then send it back for another. Both of the new ISB Texans at my local Sam Ash are well set up, play well and are cosmetic flawless. The EE plant can make some real nice stuff now days. They also let a few lemons pass. If I had seen that one hanging at GC or SA I would have passed it by on looks alone and if I did pick it up to see anyway I would have put it right back when I felt the mile high action and wrong intonation. Epiphone can and does better you just got an off day one. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamm7215 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Um' date=' I was born in the 50's. 1955 to be exact. But I had a hard time fretting diminished chords for the first few years and the arena moves were a *****. I'm starting to agree. Played it for a good long time yesterday with a mate and I'm getting very fond of it. And the warts are bothering me less and less... [/quote'] Yeah, you went and started playing it didn't you...You know, if you can live with the "warts" then hey, it's all good. The tone is seductive on these guitars, I can't bring myself to even play my Strat for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 The problem with learning/knowing how to set up guitars (or I should say "make them playable"), is that you get less picky. The mentality becomes, oh hell, I can fix that with one more tool or a few more parts from Stew Mac/Mojotone/All Parts, and a couple hours fiddling on the bench... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 Sorry for the gratuitous bump, but: Today I was able to compare my IBJL with my buddy's 10-year old standard MIK Casino, and it holds up very well. His is a blonde with a really great neck and set up, and it's not just a daily player, it's his work axe in his fairly advanced Beatle cover band (Number 9). His is strung with flatwounds (apparently REAL Beatle nuts know this is how John and Paul wired their Casinos), and the action is better than mine, but hey, I've only had mine for a few weeks and his is practically an antique and he's the second owner. In any case, he said if I decided I didn't want it, he'd buy it anytime in the future for at least what I paid for it. I've also gotten kind of fond of the thing, and I don't expect to get another one for $747, so that's it, I'm keeping it. I doubt I'll sell it either, I'm more likely to buy another, like an Elitist or if I hit the lottery like Hcat, a 1965. Lastly, Dougg330 asked if the IBJL has a scarf joint. It's not obvious, but yes it does, here are some pics: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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