NJØ Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Hi! I am trying to find out why my Gibson guitar has no serial number on it. Is there anybody out there who can help shed some light on this? I just bought a Gibson SG Special Ltd Ed with the plum finish. These were manufactured between 1999 and 2000. I live in Norway, and the woman I bought it from bought the guitar from a distant relative in Chicago in 2001. She seem to remember that the guitar could have been 2 years old at the time, possibly up to 4 years. Everything on this guitar seems to point to that it's not a fake copy. It has the correct Gibson logo, the Gibson Deluxe Machine Heads, pickups have the Gibson logo on them, so has the Tune-o-matic ABR-1 bridge, the wiring of the electronics looks like Gibson, the top hat black/silver knobs...it's all there. The only thing missing is a serial number stamped on the back of the neck. Nothing points towards that the guitar has been refinished either. The guitar has the normal wear and tear scratchmarks for a 10 years old guitar, with half of the tuners worn out as well. There is no Gibson marked hardcase to this guitar, so I connot say if the accompanying hardcase is Gibson or some other brand. It's possible that the guitar originally came with a Gibson gigbag, as the Gibson advert discription from that time leaves the "Case" field blank. I don't know for sure. Anybody have an idea? Does Gibson make prototypes for new models from time to time, and therefor leave out the serial number. Could that be the case here? Thanks for any help. NJØ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbabig Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Pictures or we can not determine its authenticity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 half of the tuners worn out as well. Half the tuners worn out on a 10 year old guitar? That's not normal wear and tear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJØ Posted August 22, 2010 Author Share Posted August 22, 2010 Sorry. Here are some photos taken by the seller. I don't have a camera at hand at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJØ Posted August 22, 2010 Author Share Posted August 22, 2010 Half the tuners worn out on a 10 year old guitar? That's not normal wear and tear. The tuning pegs on a few of them feels loose or I can wobble it from side to side. The interior bushing has worn out I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 Hi and welcome to the Forum. Whilst everything seems to be OK I must admit that I'm no SG expert. I'd like to see the rear of the peghead where the serial number is supposed to be. Is it totally blank? Does it have a Gibson-style truss-rod adjustment nut? What does the body routing look like when the scratchplate is removed? Can you compare it with a known genuine SG? Gibson will, of course, make pre-production / prototype instruments for evaluation purposes but I would doubt whether any of these are allowed to leave the company's premises. Try posting this in the SG section and see if anyone there can shed any light on the matter. Keep us posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJØ Posted August 22, 2010 Author Share Posted August 22, 2010 Hi and welcome to the Forum. Whilst everything seems to be OK I must admit that I'm no SG expert. I'd like to see the rear of the peghead where the serial number is supposed to be. Is it totally blank? Does it have a Gibson-style truss-rod adjustment nut? What does the body routing look like when the scratchplate is removed? Can you compare it with a known genuine SG? Gibson will, of course, make pre-production / prototype instruments for evaluation purposes but I would doubt whether any of these are allowed to leave the company's premises. Try posting this in the SG section and see if anyone there can shed any light on the matter. Keep us posted! Thanks for the reply. The back of the peghead is totally blank. No sign of any serial number. It also has the brass Gibson-style truss-rod nut. The routing is lik on this SG: http://www.sharkinlay.com/viking.htm On my SG the routing also has the plum color. Some sandingdust are still inside there too, but not much. I will take some photos when I have a camera at hand. NJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigh Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 [quote name='NJØ' timestamp='1282499854' post='721782' On my SG the routing also has the plum color. Some sandingdust are still inside there too, but not much. burgs Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 It's possible you just can't see the serial number. If the stamp only pressed lightly, and then it was finished in a dark colour, they aren't always easy to read. If it weren't for the label inside, I don't know if I could read the serial number on my J-45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 It's possible you just can't see the serial number. If the stamp only pressed lightly, and then it was finished in a dark colour, they aren't always easy to read... Could this be the explanation? The paint / finish looks to be quite thickly applied judging from the last snap where the damage is highlighted. Any chance you could take the guitar out in bright sunlight and see if an acute lighting angle reveals the tiniest hint of an indentation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJØ Posted August 23, 2010 Author Share Posted August 23, 2010 Could this be the explanation? The paint / finish looks to be quite thickly applied judging from the last snap where the damage is highlighted. Any chance you could take the guitar out in bright sunlight and see if an acute lighting angle reveals the tiniest hint of an indentation? I have hold it up under a 60 watt lamplight and it doesn't show any hint at all. The finish on the flat surfaces of the guitar (like on the back of the peghead) doesn't hide the grain in the wood as good as it does in rounded places like the neck and the edges of the body. That is why it seems to be a thicker finish where the damage is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 In which case I'm sorry to say I'm completely stumped. The basic body/neck unit looks to be 100% genuine and as all the hardware seems to be period correct there seems little chance that it's a fake. Why, then, is there no sign of a serial number ever having been stamped? Very curious. Any chance you could e-mail Gibson Customer Service and see what they suggest? Sorry I can't be more help! (and , as before, keep us posted!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJØ Posted August 23, 2010 Author Share Posted August 23, 2010 In which case I'm sorry to say I'm completely stumped. The basic body/neck unit looks to be 100% genuine and as all the hardware seems to be period correct there seems little chance that it's a fake. Why, then, is there no sign of a serial number ever having been stamped? Very curious. Any chance you could e-mail Gibson Customer Service and see what they suggest? Sorry I can't be more help! (and , as before, keep us posted!) Well, thanks a lot for doing your best I just send a mail to them. Hopefully they will look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecil Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Better headstock pics would help, but even with what you've got here the guitar appears to be legit. There's really no reason for the guitar to not have a serial number if it's all original though. Even the prototypes that have made it out there typically have some sort of serial number, and there's not really anything I can see in the pics here that would lead me to believe it's a prototype. It's certainly plausible that the serial number is simply faint, but if you're certain that it's absolutely not there at all, I would have to think that the guitar has had some kind of work done to it at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Thanks for the reply Cecil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Thinking cracked headstock with a refinish Cecil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artie Owl Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Is it possible to do a light pencil rubbing with paper on the back see if any grooves give the stamp away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio-bass Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 maybe it was not stamped, maybe it was like some custom that was like silkscreen and it is now erase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Isn't some of them stamped in ink under the finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecil Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Thinking cracked headstock with a refinish Cecil? That's possible, sure. We've seen all kinds of things though, and finish work isn't necessarily always the result of damage. Sometimes it's just elective work that for whatever reason obscured the serial number. I wouldn't even want to guess at this point, we don't really know enough about the guitar. Most of the time, you really can't tell if a guitar has been refinished based solely on pics anyway. Unless the job is really bad, the pics are really really good, or there's just no way the finish is stock, you usually need more information (like a serial number for instance). The thing with this one is, we did do an SG Special in a finish called Plum that looked pretty similar to what we're seeing in these pics here. I say "pretty similar" because pics don't always represent a finish color properly so it's hard to say what this guitar looks like up close. Taking that into consderation, the pics show a color that could feasibly be correct for the time period mentioned, so one may be inclined to think it might be original. But if that's the case there should be a serial number visible, even if only very faintly..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecil Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Isn't some of them stamped in ink under the finish? Yes, but the model this guitar appears to be should have an impressed serial number as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Yes, but the model this guitar appears to be should have an impressed serial number as far as I know. It should have, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJØ Posted August 23, 2010 Author Share Posted August 23, 2010 Better headstock pics would help, but even with what you've got here the guitar appears to be legit. There's really no reason for the guitar to not have a serial number if it's all original though. Even the prototypes that have made it out there typically have some sort of serial number, and there's not really anything I can see in the pics here that would lead me to believe it's a prototype. It's certainly plausible that the serial number is simply faint, but if you're certain that it's absolutely not there at all, I would have to think that the guitar has had some kind of work done to it at some point. Thanks alot Cecil for taking time to look into this. The pattern/tiny grooves of the wood at the back of the headstock really shines through the finish, so I should guess a faded imprint would be easy to see. But the woodpattern seems not to have been cut into in any way. Another thing about the finish is that it might appear to be black if you see it with not too much light on it. That is also consistant with reviews I have read on the Harmony Central. See picture. The back appears just the same, though I have no pic to show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dynacoustics Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Seen some before very similar, this model looks like a model called simply "the SG" made late eighties to early ninetees, which closely resembled the 1960's standard reissue made currently by Gibson USA Division. The wider headstock shape, the gold foil Gibson headstock logo, the shape of the pickguard with the pickups suspended on the pickguard and no pickup rings all indicate this. From these pictures this guitar looks to me like a Norlin era Gibson, the stamp or inked serial number which is not legible could be the discoloring of the finish over a few years and/or the failure at the Gibson factory to stamp it in the first place. I have been told that some guitars left the factory without a number as they were given to employees as gifts, factory seconds, one offs, etc. But to my eye and your photos I believe it is authentic Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJØ Posted August 24, 2010 Author Share Posted August 24, 2010 Seen some before very similar, this model looks like a model called simply "the SG" made late eighties to early ninetees, which closely resembled the 1960's standard reissue made currently by Gibson USA Division. The wider headstock shape, the gold foil Gibson headstock logo, the shape of the pickguard with the pickups suspended on the pickguard and no pickup rings all indicate this. From these pictures this guitar looks to me like a Norlin era Gibson, the stamp or inked serial number which is not legible could be the discoloring of the finish over a few years and/or the failure at the Gibson factory to stamp it in the first place. I have been told that some guitars left the factory without a number as they were given to employees as gifts, factory seconds, one offs, etc. But to my eye and your photos I believe it is authentic Gibson. Interesting theory. I have looked through the Gibson catalogues at http://everythingsg.com/index.php/2000g.html http://everythingsg.com/index.php/special-ltd.html This is the only one I can find matching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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