I'm Starting to See the Light!

[daveinspain]

Ok.... I just had an "oh now I get it moment". I just transposed the chords and the solo I use to do in one of our tunes from one key to another. It was like, is that all there is to it...! It's as simple as spreading soft butter on bread! I was always depending on our bass player to transpose stuff for me if we were doing a tune in a different key than it was recorded in.

 

We were doing one of the songs we play in E minor but because the guitar player who used to sing the tune left the band, now we have our female singer doing it so we had to raise it up to G minor... It was just adding three semi tones to everything... First I did the chords, only 4 chords in the whole tune. Then I did my solo, lots more notes but same thing... just added three semitones to everything....

 

For you guys who didn't start playing late in life it's a no brainer but for me it was a light bulb moment!!!

[mcmurray]

The guitar is a transposing instrument afterall.

 

Glad you had that lightbulb moment, there's really nothing to it is there :)

 

Also you might find that all keys sound the same, it's just the reference pitch that has changed.

[daveinspain]

The guitar is a transposing instrument afterall.

 

Glad you had that lightbulb moment, there's really nothing to it is there :)

 

Also you might find that all keys sound the same, it's just the reference pitch that has changed.

 

 

Wait, I don't know if I can handle two light bulbs in one day... Makes sense though....

[Silenced Fred]

Ok.... I just had an "oh now I get it moment". I just transposed the chords and the solo I use to do in one of our tunes from one key to another. It was like, is that all there is to it...! It's as simple as spreading soft butter on bread! I was always depending on our bass player to transpose stuff for me if we were doing a tune in a different key than it was recorded in.

 

We were doing one of the songs we play in E minor but because the guitar player who used to sing the tune left the band, now we have our female singer doing it so we had to raise it up to G minor... It was just adding three semi tones to everything... First I did the chords, only 4 chords in the whole tune. Then I did my solo, lots more notes but same thing... just added three semitones to everything....

 

For you guys who didn't start playing late in life it's a no brainer but for me it was a light bulb moment!!!

 

I have those moments way to many times, but its good.

Glad to hear it works working out for you

[BigKahune]

[L5Larry]

Blues and jazz music is normally played using "movable" chord forms that are know as "inside", and "rhythm" chords. The finger positions of these type chords are literally movable anywhere on the neck depending on the "root", or key, you want. Therefore the chord progression of any songs becomes a "pattern", and a key change is as simple as moving your "pattern" to a different place on the neck. Solos transpose in the same way.

 

With first position open string chords, or "cowboy" chords, it is not quite so easy, so many use a capo to allow the same chord forms to be used for different keys. The capo really becomes necessary when a specific fingerpicking is required with the key change.

 

Some first position chord forms transfer up the neck as barre chords (the E's and the A's for example), some do not. Any song played with barre chords is easily transposed to a new key, again by just moving the "pattern".

[Versatile]

EUREKA

 

if you will

 

[Artie Owl]

I realized recently that when I was a young lad I used to mess around on my Grandmother's digital piano, and thinking back I actually knew what a chord was and how to make one, before I knew what a chord was, you know what I mean? I would make the 1,3,5 notes and then mess around with pentatonic, not because I knew what I was doing but because I could hear the harmony of the notes. That was kind of a lightbulb moment for me.

[daveinspain]

Blues and jazz music is normally played using "movable" chord forms that are know as "inside", and "rhythm" chords. The finger positions of these type chords are literally movable anywhere on the neck depending on the "root", or key, you want. Therefore the chord progression of any songs becomes a "pattern", and a key change is as simple as moving your "pattern" to a different place on the neck. Solos transpose in the same way.

 

With first position open string chords, or "cowboy" chords, it is not quite so easy, so many use a capo to allow the same chord forms to be used for different keys. The capo really becomes necessary when a specific fingerpicking is required with the key change.

 

Some first position chord forms transfer up the neck as barre chords (the E's and the A's for example), some do not. Any song played with barre chords is easily transposed to a new key, again by just moving the "pattern".

 

 

 

Excellent L5, thanks... Some how it's all starting to make sense...

 

 

Then Artillery Owl said:

 

"I realized recently that when I was a young lad I used to mess around on my Grandmother's digital piano, and thinking back I actually knew what a chord was and how to make one, before I knew what a chord was, you know what I mean? I would make the 1,3,5 notes and then mess around with pentatonic, not because I knew what I was doing but because I could hear the harmony of the notes. That was kind of a lightbulb moment for me."

 

 

I think it's amazing someone can say my Grandmother's digital piano... :blink:

 

I hear what you are saying though, I have been writing music for years and have lot's of my music published and have had certain degree of success as a composer and never knew what I was doing. I just did it using my computer and keyboards. Learning guitar is helping me understand somethings I was doing by instinct...

[Golem]

 

With first position open string chords, or "cowboy" chords, it is not

quite so easy, so many use a capo to allow the same chord forms

to be used for different keys. The capo really becomes necessary

when a specific fingerpicking is required with the key change.

 

Never been a problem to me .... I was taught from Day One to

never play open strings, and it was explained, in terms vaguely

understandable on Day One, that this very topic is the reason

why. So, I'm grateful for that first lesson, even though it has

deprived me of this particular "Eureka!" moment.

 

The weird thing is that the player who had taught me that now

thinks it's weird that I tune a bass DGCF [one full-tone down].

 

It's simple .... if you never play open strings on a guitar, then

you lose a few low notes, and so what. But on a bass, loss of

low notes really hurts, so I tune DGCF. I am actually "playing

short scale" on a long scale neck .... my low EAD&G are not

open strings, but they are about 30" from the bridge, same as

the open EADG on a "real" short scale bass. If I capo it there,

it would physically BE a short scale bass, wastefully imposed

on the larger construction of a long scale bass.

 

Anyway, HED2U .... [Happy Eureka Day .... ]

 

 

 

`

[mcmurray]

Blues and jazz music is normally played using "movable" chord forms that are know as "inside", and "rhythm" chords. The finger positions of these type chords are literally movable anywhere on the neck depending on the "root", or key, you want. Therefore the chord progression of any songs becomes a "pattern", and a key change is as simple as moving your "pattern" to a different place on the neck. Solos transpose in the same way.

 

Well said.

 

This doesn't apply to just Jazz and Blues either, it applies to anything and everything played on the instrument.

[mcmurray]

Never been a problem to me .... I was taught from Day One to

never play open strings, and it was explained, in terms vaguely

understandable on Day One, that this very topic is the reason

why. So, I'm grateful for that first lesson, even though it has

deprived me of this particular "Eureka!" moment.

 

Agreed!

 

With my students I never start them off with open strings either.

 

In order to truly understand the instrument, cowboy chords need to be thought as advanced concepts (funny I know,but necessary if one wants to gain a deep insight to the instrument) and should not be learned until movable chords/scales/ear training etc are covered in depth. Then, dealing with all keys in the open position makes a lot more sense.

[wedgeSG]

"No Open Strings" Well that's just great! Started too late in life, can't afford lessons, trying to learn this thing with booksdvdsvideosonlinesitesetcetc. and NOW I find out that I've been doing it wrong since day one and that I need to forget everything and start over from scratch. crapcrapcrapdangitall. Not getting any younger and five years down the freakin' tubes. Maybe I'll just swap over to the study of slap bass now and develop the thump it with third arm method.

 

Wedgie

[daveinspain]

"No Open Strings" Well that's just great! Started too late in life, can't afford lessons, trying to learn this thing with booksdvdsvideosonlinesitesetcetc. and NOW I find out that I've been doing it wrong since day one and that I need to forget everything and start over from scratch. crapcrapcrapdangitall. Not getting any younger and five years down the freakin' tubes. Maybe I'll just swap over to the study of slap bass now and develop the thump it with third arm method.

 

Wedgie

 

Hey don't be silly... I started learning guitar at age 51 and I just turned 55. I started the same as you, free lessons on the internet, books, video and then once I had a little confidence I found a teacher. That got me to the point of being able to join a band and once I did that my improvement has been amazing. Don't through any thing out the window, any thing you learn is advancement. OK you started with open chords, so did I, now that you got those down learn the bar chords and start using them in combination with open chords. Try playing a bar chord where you used to play an open chord. Instead of playing first position A or D or what ever, slip in a bar chord A or D. You'll start to see where in some circumstances an bar chord works better or is easier to get to than the open version of the same.

 

It's all good, keep playing, keep learning and most of all enjoy your accomplishments!!!

[Golem]

"No Open Strings" Well that's just great! Started too

late in life, can't afford lessons, trying to learn

this thing with booksdvdsvideosonlinesitesetcetc. .......

OK so I was younger than you, and my lessons were

a birthday present to me, from a player whom I had

successfully cajoled into ending his 20 year break

from playing.

 

I mean, MAYBE I was younger than you .... cuz on

Day One .... aka "No Open Strings Day" .... on the

birthday in question it was my 48th birthday.

 

------------------

 

Actually, "No Open Strings Day" was really my 2nd

lesson cuz the first lesson was "Get yourself a $50

ax, and the most beat up cheap amp in the store."

See, the lessons were free as a birthday present,

but the hardware was not.

 

------------------

 

For $50 beggars can't be choosers, so my friend was

assuming I'd never think to look for a lefty ax and he

was correct. Even if I'd been given $1500 to shop with,

I'd never think to buy a lefty ax, cuz I loved the open

jams around town, where you could just borrow an ax

from other players. My teacher DID point out to me

during the 2nd lesson that I could reverse the strings

on my ax for a lefty, but it was clear at the beginning

that leftyism was a very unwise idea.

 

While he never specifically "warned me away" from

leftyism, I am still grateful that he did NOT just flat

out tell me that as a lefty I'd simply NEED a lefty ax,

no other options considered.

 

-------------------------

 

I dig how, right up front, he answered or solved 3 of

The Big Questions that rage forever in online forums:

 

Q1. Budget for Starter ax for Noob ?

A1. $50.

 

Q2. Why are only a few models available as lefty ?

A2. Cuz thaz already a few models too many.

 

Q3. My open strings don't intonate with the octave !

A3. Uh huh, well .... "Don't Worry, Be Happy !"

 

 

 

`

[damian]

L5Larry had good advice. Good for you learning guitar at a young 51...We all learn differently. The more one practices, the more " eureka ' moments...

And on a lighter note; How many guitarests does it take to change a light bulb??? That depends on if they can afford light bulbs and if they paid the power bill...

:unsure: