Riffster Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Even Rick Ruben has said there new stuff is crap, and he produced it. "Personally, I don't know whether I should laugh or cry. I'm not a big Metallica fan, but to hear this much pure damage done to what was obviously originally a decent recording, in the mistaken belief that it sounds good, is hard to stomach. I'm no audio purist, but the end result on the samples I've heard is genuinely un-listenable."- Rick Ruben on the mastering of Death Magnetic. Ok so Rick Rubin really did not say their new stuff is crap, and his comments were not relevant to the production of the album but the mastering. You'd have to be deaf not to hear the issues with the mastering, to me though it does not take away from the music in the album and they sound incredible live, last time I saw them best show I have ever been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Listen to Justice and tell me you ever actually hear a bass guitar anywhere on that record. These are really re-hashed arguments, this one in particular more than 20 years old, who cares about the bass when you can hear the best damn metal rhythm player at work? If it was Cliff on the bass it would matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoro Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 These are really re-hashed arguments, this one in particular more than 20 years old, who cares about the bass when you can hear the best damn metal rhythm player at work? If it was Cliff on the bass it would matter... Hell then Metallica should fire their bass player, and just play as a trio ::rolls eyes:: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Metallica morfed, survived and kept themselves current in their own style, they are still carrying that flag. People that call them sellouts are the same people that bought those millions of Creed records in the 90's. I never saw Metallica as a sellout, if they put out the same record everytime, (like some bands do) I would call them a sellout, not risking is a sellout as well IMO excluding AC/DC that is. Metallica is a sellout because they sue their fans and i should know i was one them! i had all the records they had accused me of stealing but was not computer savy enough to know how to put them on my computer so i downloaded a few on Napster, BIG MISTAKE! I accepted the lifetime ban of napster rather than face them in a federal court for copyright infringement but my opinion is anyone who sues the very fans who bought them their mansion is a TOTAL SELLOUT! Lars ulrich is the worst, he's the little crybaby who insisted that the band do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnastynebr Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Stiffhand, I understand where you are coming from. You are clearly a Metallica and fan, and I'm trying to bash your tastes. I do still like the Justice album, but poor mixing has made it hard for me to listen to. 20 year old argument or not, mixing seems to be a reoccurring challenge for this group. As a long time Corpse fan, I also must admit that some of their earlier records are so poorly mastered that they are nearly impossible to enjoy, yet I remain a fan. I also admit that my favorite metal group Slayer has released some less than inspiring material during their 20+ year tenure. It is unrealistic to expect a group as seasoned as Slayer or Metallica not to have a few crappy records in the mix. Its good that Metallica has a fan base that has stuck with them through their changes, and I understand and respect your passion. My all time favorite group Primus has taken a creative turn that has left many fans feeling alienated, yet I remain a loyal to a fault. There is plenty of ammunition for haters to blast Metallica, but none of that should matter to a true fan. If Metallica is your Beatles, than no one can tell you otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Metallica is a sellout because they sue their fans and i should know i was one them! i had all the records they had accused me of stealing but was not computer savy enough to know how to put them on my computer so i downloaded a few on Napster, BIG MISTAKE! I accepted the lifetime ban of napster rather than face them in a federal court for copyright infringement but my opinion is anyone who sues the very fans who bought them their mansion is a TOTAL SELLOUT! Lars ulrich is the worst, he's the little crybaby who insisted that the band do this. Yea big mistake, you got caught!... I think we all learned a valuable lesson here. The musci industry is hanging by a thread, marketing has not not figured out how to catch up with technology, if it wasn't for the Napster lawsuit who knows how and if things would be working out at all. Stiffhand, I understand where you are coming from. You are clearly a Metallica and fan, and I'm trying to bash your tastes. I do still like the Justice album, but poor mixing has made it hard for me to listen to. 20 year old argument or not, mixing seems to be a reoccurring challenge for this group. As a long time Corpse fan, I also must admit that some of their earlier records are so poorly mastered that they are nearly impossible to enjoy, yet I remain a fan. I also admit that my favorite metal group Slayer has released some less than inspiring material during their 20+ year tenure. It is unrealistic to expect a group as seasoned as Slayer or Metallica not to have a few crappy records in the mix. Its good that Metallica has a fan base that has stuck with them through their changes, and I understand and respect your passion. My all time favorite group Primus has taken a creative turn that has left many fans feeling alienated, yet I remain a loyal to a fault. There is plenty of ammunition for haters to blast Metallica, but none of that should matter to a true fan. If Metallica is your Beatles, than no one can tell you otherwise. Actually The Beatles are my all time favorite band as I said early on this thread, I don't even compare them to Metallica and I would rather see a Metallica appreciation thread instead, I am a fan but I do not when they watered down and they admit it, still their music was not pure crap during those years, lot of good songs. St. Anger was so bad that I still do not have a review for it. Metallica is a band that has lasted 30 years, never has issued a best of or greatest hits because they don't need to and have survived changing times and each other. They have run this Metallica, Inc. machine well and as an I appreciatethat as a finance person, some people may call it a sellout I call it payday, you work hard and well you deserve your money does not matter if Metallica gets so big that people see it as a big target to go against and attack...I am not much of a hippe. Talking about Slayer has made me realize how much I miss my vinyl record collection. I must get those home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 "Yea big mistake, you got caught!... I think we all learned a valuable lesson here." Got caught? I already owned the music i was accused of stealing! You tell me how i can steal something i already owned? "The music industry is hanging by a thread, marketing has not not figured out how to catch up with technology, if it wasn't for the Napster lawsuit who knows how and if things would be working out at all." As for the cd industry they could have saved it but they simply were too greedy, cds were way way cheaper to make than vinyl records, like pennies on the dollar. Did that savings ever pass on to the consumer? Nope, they kept the prices 15-20 bucks for years only to have occasional sales of 12 bucks each but it never went below the price of 10 which they said it would. As for Metallica, any band that sues the very people who bought their junk they should ashamed of themselves, they've become the sort of people they were rebelling against when they were kids, the rich corperations who rip people off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 The music industry is hanging by a thread, marketing has not not figured out how to catch up with technology, if it wasn't for the Napster lawsuit who knows how and if things would be working out at all. Actually, the music industry is doing fine, its just in a different form now (downloading from itunes,rhapsody). But if sales are down recently it is mostly because we are in a recession and sales are down in just about EVERY industry. Take a look at the housing market, its totally crashed. I like i-tunes, often get gift certificates and you can buy just one song without buying an entire album if you dont want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S t e v e Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_AWQMYCiZ0&feature=fvw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Actually, the music industry is doing fine, its just in a different form now (downloading from itunes,rhapsody). But if sales are down recently it is mostly because we are in a recession and sales are down in just about EVERY industry. Take a look at the housing market, its totally crashed. I like i-tunes, often get gift certificates and you can buy just one song without buying an entire album if you dont want it. I've noticed, I am a Finance guy. The music industry is actually NOT doing fine, digital distribution may be convenient for the user but paying $.99 to $1.29 for a track does not equal album money. This is one of the reasons concert tickets are so pricey these days and why some artists sell "meet and greet" tickets, they have to make money somehow. Some artists have benefited from digital distribution most other have not. With Napster people wanted free music, if I was a musician I would have a problem with people spreading my music for free. The irony is that Metallica spearheads the Download Festival in Europe and offers countless free live downloads to fans in their site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MojoRedFoot Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 I've noticed, I am a Finance guy. The music industry is actually NOT doing fine, digital distribution may be convenient for the user but paying $.99 to $1.29 for a track does not equal album money. This is one of the reasons concert tickets are so pricey these days and why some artists sell "meet and greet" tickets, they have to make money somehow. Some artists have benefited from digital distribution most other have not. With Napster people wanted free music, if I was a musician I would have a problem with people spreading my music for free. The irony is that Metallica spearheads the Download Festival in Europe and offers countless free live downloads to fans in their site. Which is why I refused free tickets to shows and try to buy T-shirts to the bands I love. I want them to keep doing what they're doing. I gotta show my support. I have noticed more bands selling VIP passes lately. Depending on the band, I'll buy em. Already met Ensiferum 2x but I'm gonna buy VIP passes for a show in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 One of the reasons I still buy albums instead of individual songs Stiffhand. I want artists I like to still be making music for years to come. Concert ticket prices have gotten pretty astronomical for some groups, but if I like their music enough I still go. Since we're talking about Metallica here, I'll admit I'm not a huge fan. I do like some of Apocalyptica's remakes of theirs though (Nothing Else Matters to be specific). Something pretty righteous about rocking some metal on cellos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 I've noticed, I am a Finance guy. The music industry is actually NOT doing fine, digital distribution may be convenient for the user but paying $.99 to $1.29 for a track does not equal album money. This is one of the reasons concert tickets are so pricey these days and why some artists sell "meet and greet" tickets, they have to make money somehow. Some artists have benefited from digital distribution most other have not. With Napster people wanted free music, if I was a musician I would have a problem with people spreading my music for free. The irony is that Metallica spearheads the Download Festival in Europe and offers countless free live downloads to fans in their site. Thats funny because this report in 2008 says the riaa made RECORD SETTING profits http://medialoper.com/how-the-music-industry-garnered-record-profits-in-2008/ Album sales are lower but in truth they have been down for over a decade and ever since we introduced the ipod the buying of single songs has actually increased the profits because people tend to buy more when they can buy exactly what they want. I dont advocate that people steal music but the riaa lied to the consumer in the 80s by claiming the cost of cd's would lower and it never did. If they want to bring back the market a very simple equation would help, LOWER COST= MORE SOLD. Second grade economics, lower your price and people buy your product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 One of the reasons I still buy albums instead of individual songs Stiffhand. I want artists I like to still be making music for years to come. Concert ticket prices have gotten pretty astronomical for some groups, but if I like their music enough I still go. Since we're talking about Metallica here, I'll admit I'm not a huge fan. I do like some of Apocalyptica's remakes of theirs though (Nothing Else Matters to be specific). Something pretty righteous about rocking some metal on cellos. Concerts are how artists make their money jeff, few ever sign a contract that pays well and stories of big labels not paying royalties owed are unfortunately far too common. I admire the above poster who says he wont take free tickets, he really supports his band/bands. Btw, i also like the metal cello remakes, unique twists on music. Id like to possibly learn the cello someday.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Concerts are how artists make their money jeff, few ever sign a contract that pays well and stories of big labels not paying royalties owed are unfortunately far too common. I admire the above poster who says he wont take free tickets, he really supports his band/bands. Btw, i also like the metal cello remakes, unique twists on music. Id like to possibly learn the cello someday.. Oh I know, I've gleaned that information from personal research and from information some of our posters have contributed in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Someone posted - maybe the original thread title: "IMO, Metallica are the modern day Beatles..." They used to say the same thing about the Bay City Rollers, too. FWIW, I've never seen a post that says "IMO, "X" is the modern day Metallica"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Oh I know, I've gleaned that information from personal research and from information some of our posters have contributed in the past. i dont think its the same group but not bad eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Not bad, this is the one I was thinking of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbTozgoj9OQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson Artist Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Not bad, this is the one I was thinking of: pretty funny to see cello players headbanging heh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 pretty funny to see cello players headbanging heh.. That's part of what makes it so awesome :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 That's part of what makes it so awesome :) And once again, proof that there's nothing new under the sun... http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/files/1919_1021_cover.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Sorry to say that link is a little over my head, River. Not quite sure what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Thats funny because this report in 2008 says the riaa made RECORD SETTING profits http://medialoper.com/how-the-music-industry-garnered-record-profits-in-2008/ Album sales are lower but in truth they have been down for over a decade and ever since we introduced the ipod the buying of single songs has actually increased the profits because people tend to buy more when they can buy exactly what they want. I dont advocate that people steal music but the riaa lied to the consumer in the 80s by claiming the cost of cd's would lower and it never did. If they want to bring back the market a very simple equation would help, LOWER COST= MORE SOLD. Second grade economics, lower your price and people buy your product. I am actually surprised by that article considering what I hear in Nashville, also I should have been more clear, I was talking from the artist perspective reason why I mentioned the concert tickets and meet and greet as a way to make money. That article does not go much into detail as to how artists in general are doing, I wonder why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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